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Cosworth Vega 2L [Circa 1970]F2 engines


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#1 cosworth bdg

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 01:54

:up: What a very impressive engine this was compared to the Ford equivalent, in both BHP & TORQUE & importanently WEIGHT............. :up:

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#2 petefenelon

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 11:29

...but not reliability - only a tiny fraction of production blocks were good enough to use for race engines, reliability of those that did get used was poor, and ISTR that the only one that ever really worked was an engine that ended up in the back of Tommy Reid's sports car.

In the end Duckworth said it was too much hassle.

#3 Allen Brown

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 12:44

Tommy Reid's libre Brabham BT38 wan't it? He won many races in the car over two or three seasons.

Guy Edwards had one in a Lola T290 in 1972, there was one in Luke Duffy's Crossle 22F and Nicholson used one in a March 752 in 1976.

Allen

#4 cosworth bdg

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 03:16

SPARES, are they specially MADE......??????

#5 SR781

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 04:21

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
SPARES, are they specially MADE......??????


The Nicholson motor was later fitted to the Kaditcha SR781,as far as spares go some guy in the States bought what was left at Cosworth and the production type engine features different things such as different inlet/exhaust stud sizes,extra retaining bolts on cam cover and different cam gear mountings.I have a spare head valve area part but the rest like the crank and rods i have had locally made(Australia)Another thing they used small block Chev crank pin sizes and the bearings are the same except for the rear main.

#6 cosworth bdg

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 04:45

I think you are on to a good power plant with this 2L VEGA...engine... :up:

#7 A E Anderson

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 05:06

I believe the first two or three Cosworth Vega engines that Chevrolet released outside the company went to Bob Higman, the reigning USAC midget chief mechanic/car builder, in 1974/75, for installation in a midget. The car went like stink with that engine, Pancho Carter being able to pull "wheelies" almost at will at speed in it.

Bob Higman's shops were about 10 miles south of me, on Indiana State Road 28, for years.

Art

#8 cosworth bdg

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 07:19

Originally posted by A E Anderson
I believe the first two or three Cosworth Vega engines that Chevrolet released outside the company went to Bob Higman, the reigning USAC midget chief mechanic/car builder, in 1974/75, for installation in a midget. The car went like stink with that engine, Pancho Carter being able to pull "wheelies" almost at will at speed in it.

Bob Higman's shops were about 10 miles south of me, on Indiana State Road 28, for years.

Art

They would have made an excellent USAC midget engine ,i have had a full seasons experience running a COSSIE ford BDP in a STANTON USAC midget...

#9 SR781

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 13:36

How do i post a photo on here?

#10 cosworth bdg

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 07:39

Originally posted by SR781
How do i post a photo on here?

Not sure, regards , PN.

#11 TooTall

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 19:18

Look at the top of the thread list for a sticky titled "ATTENTION EVERYONE Solution for posting photos".
On the first page about half way down is a post by Bira with comprehensive instructions on how to use Imageshack. Works for me.

Posted Image

Cheers,
Kurt

#12 cosworth bdg

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 01:19

Originally posted by TooTall
Look at the top of the thread list for a sticky titled "ATTENTION EVERYONE Solution for posting photos".
On the first page about half way down is a post by Bira with comprehensive instructions on how to use Imageshack. Works for me.

Posted Image

Cheers,
Kurt

Thanks very much Kurt , cheers ,Peter N.

#13 Mallory Dan

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:43

Was the Derek Lawrence F3 engine that he used in 1978 related to this one, it was described as a Chevrolet Vega ??

#14 SR781

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:49

Trying to post a photo with the image shack but i cannot transfer it across?

#15 ian senior

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:55

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Was the Derek Lawrence F3 engine that he used in 1978 related to this one, it was described as a Chevrolet Vega ??


Never heard of that one, Dan - what car was it in?

#16 Mallory Dan

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 10:19

A Chevron B38 Ian, possibly the ex-Elgh 1977 car.

#17 ian senior

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:37

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
A Chevron B38 Ian, possibly the ex-Elgh 1977 car.


Thanks. Actually that does set the faintest of bells ringing, but as I was otherwise occupied for most of 1978, I'm a bit blank on details. Any idea who prepared the engine?

Pity Derek Lawrence never got his hands on a truly competitive F3 car - he was a good driver and flew in the "Team Titan" FF cars a few years before.

#18 cosworth bdg

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 02:46

Originally posted by A E Anderson
I believe the first two or three Cosworth Vega engines that Chevrolet released outside the company went to Bob Higman, the reigning USAC midget chief mechanic/car builder, in 1974/75, for installation in a midget. The car went like stink with that engine, Pancho Carter being able to pull "wheelies" almost at will at speed in it.

Bob Higman's shops were about 10 miles south of me, on Indiana State Road 28, for years.

Art

Do you have any photo's of the engine?. Cheers P N..

#19 JB Miltonian

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:08

Just looking in the indexes again regarding this subject, I see two technical articles that I have in my home library:

Road & Track, October 1972, 4 pages, 6 pictures, by John Hartley.
Motor Trend, May 1972, 4 pages, 6 pictures and an engineering drawing, by Karl Ludvigsen.

I can scan and email copies if interested parties send me a PM with their email address.

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#20 2F-001

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 07:16

There is a fairly well-known Tony Matthews cut-away of the Cosworth EA. I'm sure I've seen that in at least one of the Cosworth histories, and possibly as a large print too. I've have a forage for it when I get a moment.

#21 macoran

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 07:47

Originally posted by SR781
Trying to post a photo with the image shack but i cannot transfer it across?


As soon as image shack has loaded it, copy the link ( about 4 will be shown) and paste it in here.

#22 cosworth bdg

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 04:46

Originally posted by JB Miltonian
Just looking in the indexes again regarding this subject, I see two technical articles that I have in my home library:

Road & Track, October 1972, 4 pages, 6 pictures, by John Hartley.
Motor Trend, May 1972, 4 pages, 6 pictures and an engineering drawing, by Karl Ludvigsen.

I can scan and email copies if interested parties send me a PM with their email address.

Thank you very much for the info you e-mailed to myself, Best Regards ,Peter Nightingale................. :) :)

#23 David Beard

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 11:54

Originally posted by ian senior


Thanks. Actually that does set the faintest of bells ringing, but as I was otherwise occupied for most of 1978, I'm a bit blank on details. Any idea who prepared the engine?

Pity Derek Lawrence never got his hands on a truly competitive F3 car - he was a good driver and flew in the "Team Titan" FF cars a few years before.


I think Titan did something with the Vega engine. Whether there was any connction with the Cosworth engine, I don't know.

#24 SR781

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 09:43

Posted Image

The Kaditcha SR781 in the early days

#25 Tomas Karlsson

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 11:37

Jo Bonnier had a Chevrolet Vega engine for at least one of his 2-litre sportscars in 1972, but I don't know if it was built at Cosworth.

#26 David Beard

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 21:05

Originally posted by David Beard


I think Titan did something with the Vega engine. Whether there was any connection with the Cosworth engine, I don't know.


I have just checked up on this..cousin Oz at Titan put me straight.

Titan actually bought all the Vega parts from Cosworth . Blocks, heads, cam and crank blanks.

They built at least two up as F3 engines. Mike Blanchet had one in a Lola, (T270 in 1979 according to the Kettlewell book), and possibly Mike O'Brien ran one in a March. If Derek lawrence had one it didn't come direct from Titan, but Oz does recall him having one in a Chevron.

Of course the significant thing about the Vega as a production engine was that it had an aluminium block with no liners. The bores were just etched, or something. (not Nickasil coated). However the Titan (and I assume Cosworth) racing versions had cast iron liners.

Ultimately Titan gave up with the Vega block but did quite well when they used the Cosworth Vega head and crank with a Pinto block to make a rallycross motor they called Rallymaster. John Welch did well with it.

#27 ian senior

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 08:17

That's interesting, David - thanks. For "stock block" formulae, would they really have been allowed to insert cast iron liners (which never apeared on the road car), or was that seen as permissible in some way?

#28 David Beard

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 11:52

Originally posted by ian senior
For "stock block" formulae, would they really have been allowed to insert cast iron liners (which never apeared on the road car), or was that seen as permissible in some way?


That doesn't sound like a promblem to me. In any case, apparently the production engine eventually had to resort to liners.

This is worth a read.....

http://yarchive.net/car/vega.html

(Lotus were initially involved too, it is suggested)

#29 2F-001

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 13:24

I've always assumed that Chevrolet's linerless-alloy block technique that was the basis of Cosworth's EA ('Vega') was the same as that employed for some of the later McLaren CanAm motors - with the material being, presumably, a Reynolds product.
I seem to recall an alloy with a high silicon content being involved, along with the tem 'hypereutectic' being bandied about as the latest buzz-word.
Any thoughts?

#30 Mallory Dan

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 14:59

Now David mentions it, I think Mike Blanchet did attempt to use a F3 Vega in his 79 Lola. It was the T770 tho' David, not the T270, the latter being the 1972 Indycar I think. He hardly ever started though as I recall, the whole effort being a bit of a disaster. Whether this was car or engine related I don't know. Though the next year the car, with a Toyota installed, and slightly updated, did go much better early in the year.

I don't recall Mike O'Brien's March in 1980 having a Vega, Toyota I think.

#31 David Beard

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 15:10

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Now David mentions it, I think Mike Blanchet did attempt to use a F3 Vega in his 79 Lola. It was the T770 tho' David, not the T270, the latter being the 1972 Indycar I think.


Dan, it said T770 in the Kettlewell book, and stupidly I thought it was a miss-print and changed it! Not my best area of knowledge :(

#32 cosworth bdg

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 03:22

Originally posted by 2F-001
I've always assumed that Chevrolet's linerless-alloy block technique that was the basis of Cosworth's EA ('Vega') was the same as that employed for some of the later McLaren CanAm motors - with the material being, presumably, a Reynolds product.
I seem to recall an alloy with a high silicon content being involved, along with the tem 'hypereutectic' being bandied about as the latest buzz-word.
Any thoughts?

The REYNOLDS Chev v8 product ran in both linerless & linered form, it is still not perfected TODAY?????????????????. :down:

#33 Stoatspeed

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 17:48

One of the longer lived EA's was run for several seasons in RAC hillclimbs by Richard Brown in back of his beautiful Martin BM16 sports car. I also have some misty recollection of him running a single-seater Martin at some time, but I suspect that one had a more conventional F2 or Atlantic powerplant (FVA/Hart/BDx). The Vega engine always seemd to be physically rather large for a 2-litre class unit .. much more bulky than a Ford-based unit.
Somewhere in the dusty boxes, I am sure I have pictures of the Martin BM16 - it was one of my favorite cars of the day, painted rather striking orange! I'll post if I can find it!

#34 cosworth bdg

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 01:32

Thanks, i would like to see it if you find it in the dusty pile.....