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#1 f1steveuk

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 19:53

Being and ex museum curator, and having extracted war birds from what was Russia, one re-occuring theme was "buried treasures", cars, engines etc that were in holes in the ground, or walled up in cellars and caves. Now I actually extracted the ex Foresti/Villa Targa Florio Ballot from a bricked up garage, so I know it's possible, and two examples I can give are:

Three Rolls-Royce R type engines as used by Malcolm and Donald Campbell in some of thier Blue Birds and Bluebirds, possibly pushed into a hole in Harmsworth when Colley's scrap yard closed. The land has still not been built on.

Eyston's land speed car Thunderbolt, buried in a rubbish tip in New Zealand. I've seen the picture of it post war, and a scanned picture taken recently.


Da Resta's car could still be IN the sewage works at Brooklands, so what else is to be "dug up"??

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#2 Steve L

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 20:16

Any piccies of the Targa Florio Ballot extraction, Steve?

Hope YR Vol 3 is on the way soon, too ;) ?!

#3 D-Type

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 21:29

The concrete wall at the original Bentley factory at Cricklewood, reputedly reinforced with a selection of Bentley parts.

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 22:43

Originally posted by D-Type
The concrete wall at the original Bentley factory at Cricklewood, reputedly reinforced with a selection of Bentley parts.


Common complaint!

The damaged Lotus 19 chassis that's the subject of a rather long thread (search using names like Matich, Moss and Ireland and you'll find it) is now reinforcing in some under-house concrete structure somewhere in Sydney.

The chassis, such as it was, of Rex Law's 1949 Australian Grand Prix entry was similarly used as fill/reinforcing in the floor of a factory in Toowoomba when Lex Winten was done with it.

#5 Twin Window

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 22:50

Methinks this thread should be entitled 'Lack of foresight' instead...!

#6 HistoricMustang

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 22:51

No telling how many tons are underground:

http://www.superbird.../pettyjunk.html

http://www.thunderpl...34/vehicles.htm

Henry

#7 cosworth bdg

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 01:52

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Common complaint!

The damaged Lotus 19 chassis that's the subject of a rather long thread (search using names like Matich, Moss and Ireland and you'll find it) is now reinforcing in some under-house concrete structure somewhere in Sydney.

The chassis, such as it was, of Rex Law's 1949 Australian Grand Prix entry was similarly used as fill/reinforcing in the floor of a factory in Toowoomba when Lex Winten was done with it.

This all sounds like when Chrysler Australia ,were still manufacturing cars in Australia, pre 1979, finished the Charger 6 Pack, and dumped crates of NEW Weber side draft carbies in St Vincents Gulf off the Adelaide coastline.

#8 SR781

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:29

I purchased a standard Chev Vega engine for bits(SOHC) and the guy i got it off had it buried in his backyard!

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:40

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
This all sounds like when Chrysler Australia ,were still manufacturing cars in Australia, pre 1979, finished the Charger 6 Pack, and dumped crates of NEW Weber side draft carbies in St Vincents Gulf off the Adelaide coastline.


Are you sure that really happened, Peter?

For one thing, they would have been able to keep them on the spares shelves, where they would sell very well...

#10 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 15:43

When I finished writing Leap into Legend about Donald Campbell. I was told all the wreckage that was taken back to Sussex was tipped in hole as hardcore. Of course now with the "restoration" those parts are crucial, so Twinny is right, lack of foresight!! I should hve piccies of the Ballot "surfacing", just got to find them!

#11 Gerr

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 16:17

There is a "new" 1957 Plymouth buried in Tulsa.

http://www.forwardlo...h/countdown.asp

#12 David Beard

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 16:48

Babs, for many years a thing in a hole at Pendine, must be the best known automotive burial?

It's certainly much better known than my Mk2 kart jig, made from Leyland truck chassis members, which is buried behind my garage.

#13 antonvrs

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 17:40

In the early '60s the owner of a Siata 208S spider in Honolulu, Hawaii , pulled the Fiat 8V motor out and replaced it with an aluminum Oldsmobile 215 v8. He then put the 8V motor in the back of his station wagon and drove to the local landfill where he pushed the motor and gearbox(complete with Weber carbs etc.) off the tailgate into the dump.
Current value of those pieces? Around $75,000. Who knew?
Anton

#14 Cirrus

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 17:55

Rumour has it that when a certain person bought Brabham, he took a look around the stores at all the spares for customer cars down the years and said "Get rid of this s**t!"

The whole lot was apparently dumped in a local gravel pit, although I know that at least one BT21 chassis frame was rescued, and turned into a Formula Ford a couple of years later.

#15 kayemod

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 18:36

Originally posted by Cirrus
Rumour has it that when a certain person bought Brabham, he took a look around the stores at all the spares for customer cars down the years and said "Get rid of this s**t!"

The whole lot was apparently dumped in a local gravel pit, although I know that at least one BT21 chassis frame was rescued, and turned into a Formula Ford a couple of years later.


And just think of the money that 'certain person' has spent over the years having bright and shiny exotic replicas made. Has he asked anyone to build him a Jack & Ron era Brabham yet?

#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 19:35

One of the MBM Formula 1 cars was allegedly buried under a car showroom in Switzerland.

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 20:48

Originally posted by Gerr
There is a "new" 1957 Plymouth buried in Tulsa.

http://www.forwardlo...h/countdown.asp


Ths one absolutely fascinates me!

#18 LotusElise

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 21:07

My dad knew someone, when he was a child, who got fed up of his car and buried it, apart from the bonnet. This ended up in dad's possession and he used it as a sledge in winter!
I can't remember what kind of car it was but dad has often speculated as to whether it is still buried.

#19 HistoricMustang

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 23:39

Lets not forget this one! :clap:

Henry

http://www.dself.dsl...rs/schilovs.htm

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#20 cosworth bdg

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 00:17

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Are you sure that really happened, Peter?

For one thing, they would have been able to keep them on the spares shelves, where they would sell very well...

Ray, yes it is correct . Financially it was apparently better for the company to do this than to put them into the parts & accessories division......

#21 WDH74

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:16

Henry, I'm amazed to see the photos of the Petty junkyard. I'd no idea that they'd simply tossed all the old racecars back into the trees....I mean, I figured theyd have been scrapped somehow, but not on private property!

Rather reminds me of the old Cars In Barns website.

-Wm.

#22 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:35

Like dumping countless brand new aircraft in the sea when Japan surrendered in WW2...

Allowing them to go back to America would mean that industry would be stifled with a surplus of aircraft. The Australian government didn't need them any more, however.

Today people are raising them from the seabed and restoring them.

#23 Twin Window

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 07:31

Originally posted by WDH74

Henry, I'm amazed to see the photos of the Petty junkyard.

Me too - fantastic!

Reminds me a little of the back garden here because, hidden from view behind the bushes, you will find bits of a rally car...

Posted Image Posted Image

...as photographed ten minutes ago - they've been there since 1989!

#24 HistoricMustang

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:18

Originally posted by Twin Window
Me too - fantastic!

Reminds me a little of the back garden here because, hidden from view behind the bushes, you will find bits of a rally car...

Posted Image Posted Image

...as photographed ten minutes ago - they've been there since 1989!


Yes, I have my own little "junkyard" out behind one of the shops...............largest piece is a door from my '65 Mustang racer.

Very few stock car racers have survived. :down:

Henry

#25 Zoe

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:16

Didn't Peter Monteverdi bury one of his lesser successful reacing car creations in some concrete when building his garage / house / shop / whatever?

Zoe

#26 kayemod

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:28

Originally posted by Zoe
Didn't Peter Monteverdi bury one of his lesser successful reacing car creations in some concrete when building his garage / house / shop / whatever?

Zoe


From what I remember of Monteverdi's efforts, he should have buried all of them.

#27 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:03

Originally posted by Zoe
Didn't Peter Monteverdi bury one of his lesser successful reacing car creations in some concrete when building his garage / house / shop / whatever?

Zoe

He did - see post 16 ^ :)

#28 Sharman

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:06

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Yes, I have my own little "junkyard" out behind one of the shops...............largest piece is a door from my '65 Mustang racer.


Very few stock car racers have survived. :down:

Henry

Don't you lot have "dog house owners" who get very wrothy if you so much as put a bit of metal down so that you can hose the gunk off?

#29 Dutchy

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:03

Originally posted by f1steveuk
[
Eyston's land speed car Thunderbolt, buried in a rubbish tip in New Zealand. I've seen the picture of it post war, and a scanned picture taken recently.


[/B]


There was supposed to have been an attempt to exhume it 3 or 4 years ago - presumably it came to nought? Didn't Thunderbolt catch fire when in NZ? I assume that was the reason for burying it.

#30 f1steveuk

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:09

Originally posted by Dutchy


There was supposed to have been an attempt to exhume it 3 or 4 years ago - presumably it came to nought? Didn't Thunderbolt catch fire when in NZ? I assume that was the reason for burying it.


Thunderbolt was on a world tour at the outbreak of war. The building the car was in was hit in an air raid, and in the resulting fire, much of the ali' body melted, so rather than repair it, it was towed away!! complete with two "dummy" R type engines. I say dummy as they were actually real engines with out number plates and internals. The side scan I was shown was supposed to have been from the attempt to recover it, but as yet I have nothing about it being exhumed.

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:24

Air raid? New Zealand?

Something just doesn't gel here... what self-respecting warmonger would consider New Zealand worth bombing?

#32 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:29

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Air raid? New Zealand?

I wondered about that too. I know the Japanese bombed Darwin, but I didn't think they got that far south ...

#33 rdrcr

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:39

Is there any truth to the story - that to protect his property from invading Germans in 1914, Ettore Bugatti buried three racing cars under the cellar of his home before fleeing to Italy?

#34 kayemod

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:44

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Air raid? New Zealand?

Something just doesn't gel here... what self-respecting warmonger would consider New Zealand worth bombing?


Who's blaming the Japs? With the record that our chums in US forces have, it could have been 'friendly fire'.

#35 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 14:55

Originally posted by rdrcr
Is there any truth to the story - that to protect his property from invading Germans in 1914, Ettore Bugatti buried three racing cars under the cellar of his home before fleeing to Italy?

Well, IIRC, both Conway and Venables give it credence ...

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 15:56

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I wondered about that too. I know the Japanese bombed Darwin, but I didn't think they got that far south ...


Well, they also staged a submarine raid on Sydney Harbour...

But New Zealand? Who would want to do that? For a few sheep?

#37 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 17:58

Originally posted by Ray Bell

But New Zealand? Who would want to do that? For a few sheep?

The Welsh?

#38 kayemod

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 18:49

Originally posted by Vitesse2

The Welsh?


Surely not even the Welsh are that desperate?

#39 f1steveuk

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 19:06

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Air raid? New Zealand?

Something just doesn't gel here... what self-respecting warmonger would consider New Zealand worth bombing?


I have to admit reading that in a well known land speed record book, well known for inaccuracy!! But I'll check, but the buildning did catch fire, and it was war time, but the facts would be better!!! I'll reort back after checking that.

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 22:14

We await your report...

"The building was gutted when an air raid drill went wrong. The siren used so much power it caused the wiring to short and set fire to the roof..."

#41 HistoricMustang

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 23:55

Originally posted by Vitesse2

The Welsh?


Faukland Islands in same boat?

Henry

#42 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 07:02

The Jaguar plant at Browns Lane might well be a worthy site for investigation having just closed. Some years previously Jaguar's service department had been at a separate site,Kingfield Road in Coventry, which was behind the Daimler works (Also now gone).
When it was closed down and replaced by a wine merchants depot, some employees remembered a large consignment of parts which would now be very valuable and were profitable even then.
The parts were privately exumed and sold off.

#43 RTH

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 07:50

Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich
The Jaguar plant at Browns Lane might well be a worthy site for investigation having just closed. Some years previously Jaguar's service department had been at a separate site,Kingfield Road in Coventry, which was behind the Daimler works (Also now gone).
When it was closed down and replaced by a wine merchants depot, some employees remembered a large consignment of parts which would now be very valuable and were profitable even then.
The parts were privately exumed and sold off.


Not buried in the ground perhaps, but you can be sure there are now a great many old and rare racing cars and road cars shut away in old barns, warehouses and domestic garages untouched and unseen, for many years which may only come to light after the demise of the owners.

Couple a years ago hurricane Charley took the roof off some old wooden buildings in the southern states to reveal a hoard of old and rare cars.

Look how long the collection of Bugattis were kept secret in those factory buildings in France whilst apparently even the workers knew nothing about it. There is probably more yet to be discovered than ever...........look at that 'Williams' type 35 put on sale in the spring untouched for 55 years !

#44 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 18:05

So what happened to F1 cars after fatal crashes - Senna's Williams and so on. Presumably after all the investigations and enquiries were completed, the useable parts were removed and the wreckage crushed?

#45 chopper

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 01:15

i blame thread's like this for my hoarding problems .i have so much oddball jap bike parts at this stage i've got to build another shed .i'm afraid to bury any more stuff out back ! .

#46 Gary C

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 07:03

Senna's Williams was crushed at the factory when they eventually recieved it back from Italy.
I wouldn't think that anything was kept apart from the chassis plate.

#47 f1steveuk

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 18:37

Originally posted by Ray Bell
We await your report...

"The building was gutted when an air raid drill went wrong. The siren used so much power it caused the wiring to short and set fire to the roof..."


Beat me to it! I'm sure that must be from a carry on film!

#48 scags

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 21:33

Was it a Lucas air raid siren?

#49 kayemod

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 21:40

Originally posted by scags
Was it a Lucas air raid siren?


Probably wouldn't have worked if it had been.

#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 22:28

Originally posted by kayemod
Probably wouldn't have worked if it had been.


That was his point... that it would have shorted the wiring...

Do you remember the R & T PS item from, what, the early seventies some time on this theme? A Jag, IIRC, with a sticker in the back window:

Why do the English drink warm beer?
Because they have Lucas refrigerators.