Jump to content


Photo

Lotus 72C


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#1 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 29 June 2006 - 20:16

I'm at it again, only this time I am building a 1:12 scale model of the Lotus 72C for production, and I have a license from Classic Team Lotus to do it. :cool:

I took a trip to the CTL shop in England back in April this year and was able to get some of the original drawings for the car. Unfortunately, there was no 72C for ref pictures. Only a 72E (which is chassis no. 72/5, that started out as a 72C) but the rear suspension is different.

Clive chapman has not responded to my request for someone with a 72C so I can get some photo's.

So I'm looking for help again in the photographic dept, for ref pictures preferably of the rear end and suspension. I have it pretty well mapped out, but pictures would be a tremendous help.

If you want to see some of the progress http://macsmodeling....m/Lotus 72C.htm

Any help would be greatly appreciated and acknoledged in the kit instructions.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

Advertisement

#2 uwe_sautter

uwe_sautter
  • Member

  • 107 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:21

Hi Ian,
which 72C you mean exactly or better which driver and race?
I have many photos from Lotus 72 cars and I think I can help you.
best regards
Uwe

#3 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,073 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 30 June 2006 - 13:33

Have you looked at Michael Oliver's excellent book: "Lotus 72"? From that it looks like 72/3 and 72/4 had been (in 2003) restored to 72C spec and were, at that time, owned by a Japanese collector by the name of Fakuda and the Foulston family respectively.

#4 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 30 June 2006 - 13:34

Hi Uwe,

http://macsmodeling....y_04_JR.002.jpg Here is the car I'm actually basing the model on, as raced by Jochen Rindt at Germany.

What I need is pictures around the rear of the car, showing suspension, as I believe the 72C only has one radius arm each side which increased to two when in changed to the 72D. However, all photographs will be received with thanks and appreciation.

Thanks.
Ian

#5 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 30 June 2006 - 13:39

Thanks Ruairidh,

I have a few books including the one you mention. I will have to take another look at what you are talking about.

Thank you!
Ian

#6 Gary C

Gary C
  • Member

  • 4,525 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 30 June 2006 - 14:36

I don't think 72/4 has ever been restored.

#7 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,073 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 01 July 2006 - 14:22

Originally posted by Gary C
I don't think 72/4 has ever been restored.


Michael Oliver has 72/4 debuting in 72C spec at the Oulton Park Giold Cup in 1970 with its last race in Mexico that same year. When the Fittipaldi's acquired it in 1972 the factory repainted it and rebuilt it to make it look as close as possible to Emmo's world championship car. When it was acquired by the Foulstons around 1965 the car was in a "pretty poor state and Foulston had to spend a considerable sum of money to get it running again".

#8 Gary C

Gary C
  • Member

  • 4,525 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 01 July 2006 - 16:00

Fair enough. And that would be 1985, I think

#9 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,073 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 01 July 2006 - 17:47

Originally posted by Gary C
Fair enough. And that would be 1985, I think


Yep shurely shome mistake their. :blush:

#10 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 04 July 2006 - 03:25

OK! There's a name I recognise. "Mary Foulston", Clive Chapman had mentioned she had one, but as he (Clive) does not know me yet, he was reluctant to introduce me.

Does anyone here know her and/or would be willing to put a word in for me to be able to communicate with her?

This project is very important to me. http://macsmodeling....m/Lotus 72C.htm Look there and you can see what detail I am trying to achieve with this model.

Thanks again!

Ian

#11 JB Miltonian

JB Miltonian
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 04 July 2006 - 06:18

There is a pretty good detail picture of the rear suspension (single radius arm per side) in Automobile Year 1970, page 161, but it's right next to the spine on the book, and AY's tend to fall apart at the spine if you're not careful. Do you know if you've seen that picture?

#12 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,311 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 04 July 2006 - 11:29

On the basis that the 72C is the 1970 car with antidive and antisquat removed, and the 72D appeared at Monaco in 1971 with lower-profile tyres & different suspension; here are a couple of sources I have found:

1970 car, but I don't know which suspension it has; single radius arm anyway:
http://pboursin.club...ist/lotus72.gif

1971 Race of Champions at Brands:
http://citadecampeon.../001/report.htm

Paul M

#13 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 04 July 2006 - 14:00

Thanks JB, unfortunately I don't have a copy of Automobile 1970. :( I will have to try and find someone with a copy I can look at.

Paul M. Thank you! Every little bit helps.

Mac

#14 JB Miltonian

JB Miltonian
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 04 July 2006 - 18:23

Mac: It turns out that I have two copies of AY 1970, so I took a chance on laying one of them flat onto the scanner. The caption for this picture reads:

"Rear suspension of the Lotus 72 in its latest 1970 form with the dampers mounted at an angle. Originally the rear dampers were tucked inside the exhaust pipes in an almost vertical position where, not surprisingly, the fluid boiled. The radius arms, one per side, are attached to the brackets which bolt the Ford-Cosworth engine to the monocoque. The upper and lower suspension links are of the wishbone type, normal at base and reversed at the top. One compound torsion bar is visible under brake disc."
Posted Image

#15 JB Miltonian

JB Miltonian
  • Member

  • 542 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 04 July 2006 - 18:42

Mac: In case it might interest you, here is part of another cutaway illustration, this one by Bill Bennett, printed in Sports Car Graphic, July 1970. I don't know if this is the version of the 72 you are looking for, but it appears to have only one radius arm. I can scan and send the entire drawing to you if you are interested.
Posted Image

#16 macoran

macoran
  • Member

  • 3,989 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 04 July 2006 - 22:29

Somehow they all look a bit different don't they ?

Posted Image

#17 macoran

macoran
  • Member

  • 3,989 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 06 July 2006 - 21:55

Hello Loti fans,
Anyone have a photo from a very low angle of the front of a 72 ?

I am wondering why both the Hatton and the Bennett cutaways show such a “sudden” and “severe” WAISTING ( if that’s the word for it ) around the front suspension…….. see the sudden lines curving just ahead and behind the tyres.

It just appears odd to me as the rest of the car is quite......straight-lined...... if you get the gist of my ramblings.

Posted Image

Posted Image

#18 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 06 July 2006 - 22:17

Marc they are great. They are actually all of the earlt 1970 72C with the roll bar connected to the back of the engine and prior to the intake scoop. But of great help just the same.

email me at mac@macsmodeling.com and I will send some pictures of a 72 front end it's a 72E does that matter?

Mac

#19 IAM

IAM
  • Member

  • 1,075 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 07 July 2006 - 02:00

Sorry about that JB. That picture from the book is great! Thank you.

You say you have two books? Do you want to sell me the one you folded flat to scan? :)

Mac

Advertisement

#20 macoran

macoran
  • Member

  • 3,989 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:43

This little cutaway is of a 72B
Can anyone help with a larger scan ?
Posted Image

#21 John-w

John-w
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 15 January 2011 - 23:21

Hello,

here are some photos from my actual project:
Lotus 72C, Jochen Rindt, Zandvoort 1970, Model Factory Hiro, Scale 1/20th.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The base for this kit was the Lotus 72D, because the included parts for the
front and rear suspension as well as the nose are not correct for the 72C.

I hope to finish the model soon.

John-w


#22 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 7,438 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 16 January 2011 - 10:51

Have you resolved your windscreen material yet? If not:

A couple of thoughts; one, polycarbonate is hydroscopic, so you should be able to dye it yellow after drying it out in an airing cupboard for about a week!. Actually, 3 thoughts. You don't mention what thickness you require, so I assume in the region of 400microns/0.015", which is packaging grade - Ring round the packaging sheet suppliers for samples for the "Transparent boxes in which you plan to sell your models" (likely to be PVC, PETa or PETg; or even old fashioned celluloid). Ski goggles are made from UVEX, so replacement "lenses" are easily available, and available in all sorts of colours, but if only transparent is available, it too is hygroscopic and susceptible to dying. And there's more.... Architectural and industrial modelmakers are a useful source of offcuts, particularly if you can offer a quid pro quo, as you clearly have considerable skills they could use.

I can't recall the generic name for UVEX, but in its raw sheet for it smells like camel's piss, I think it is Cabulite.


All these plastics are thermoformable so, if drying them, don't get them too hot as they start to distort over about 60C, and ideally the PC and UVEX should be dried by forced air convection for a few hours, but this is usually impractical in a semi-domestic setting so lengthy drying is the alternative - remember, the drier you get them, the better the uptake of dye. About 7% would be the uptake, so strong dye over a couple of days.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 16 January 2011 - 10:53.


#23 John-w

John-w
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 20 January 2011 - 20:33

Have you resolved your windscreen material yet? If not:

Hello,
I will use the included windscreen, thanks.


Can anybody help me to identify this part/cable on the right site of the rollbar?
Posted Image


Here is a photo during assembly my model.
Posted Image


thanks

John-w


#24 gablet

gablet
  • Member

  • 124 posts
  • Joined: September 05

Posted 20 January 2011 - 21:20

Hello,
I will use the included windscreen, thanks.


Can anybody help me to identify this part/cable on the right site of the rollbar?



thanks

John-w


That cable worked the battery cutoff switch.
Bye,
Gab

#25 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 3,532 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 20 January 2011 - 21:47

I am in awe (as ever) John-w.

But why such a messily riveted horizontal fence on the nose?



Edit: Or, looking back (and thinking about it) was it actually a strip of lead?

Edited by MCS, 20 January 2011 - 22:08.


#26 scran

scran
  • Member

  • 38 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 20 January 2011 - 22:21

Currently reading the book on Rindt. Am in the 1970 chapter - will check and see if anything in there migth help.

#27 John-w

John-w
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:31

Hello,

thanks all for your help, here are some photos from the finished model.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

John-w

#28 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,627 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:41

Lovely stuff, John. And I love the surrounding scenery that you include in all of your photos which really sets off the subjects beautifully. If any of you have never visited John's website, I recommend that you do.

#29 JacnGille

JacnGille
  • Member

  • 1,583 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:00

Very, very nice work!

#30 rallen

rallen
  • Member

  • 545 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 23 January 2011 - 19:58

Just wanted to say that this is beautiful John. Very impressive thanks for showing. :clap:

#31 ff1600

ff1600
  • Member

  • 146 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 23 January 2011 - 20:21

Great work, I wish my models looked that good.

#32 MikeM

MikeM
  • New Member

  • 13 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 26 January 2011 - 13:58

Hi John, that looks excellent. I also have one and doubt if it will look as good. I would be interested to know how you have done the "Gold Leaf" decal though. I have not found any one making decals and while I can done images I'm struggling to make decent decals myself.
Many thanks
Mike

#33 charles r

charles r
  • Member

  • 5,575 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 26 January 2011 - 17:04

Absolutely mouthwatering John, as with all your efforts - a joy to behold.

#34 John-w

John-w
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 08 October 2013 - 13:55

Hello,

 

here are two beauties :lol:

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

72_W_08g_zps80f1f087.jpg

 

John-w

 

 



#35 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,627 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 08 October 2013 - 18:05


Hello,
here are two beauties :lol:
Lotus 72C R2 and R4

Fabulous, as usual, John :up:  :up:

#36 alansart

alansart
  • Member

  • 4,006 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 08 October 2013 - 19:23

Hello,

 

here are two beauties :lol:

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

 

 

John-w

 

That's amazing.

 

Obviously Jochen was using his tyres a bit harder :)



#37 JacnGille

JacnGille
  • Member

  • 1,583 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 08 October 2013 - 23:07

:up:



#38 Cargo

Cargo
  • Member

  • 224 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:06

Hello,

 

here are two beauties :lol:

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

72_W_08g_zps80f1f087.jpg

 

John-w

Jeepers!! Stunning stuff!  :clap:  :clap:  :clap: Well done.   :love:  :eek:  



#39 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 290 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:44

Absolutely superb. 72 R4 takes me right back to Oulton '70, and its tyres are spot on of course, Hill only put a couple of laps on them! :up: JohnP :)



Advertisement

#40 alansart

alansart
  • Member

  • 4,006 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:31

Absolutely superb. 72 R4 takes me right back to Oulton '70, and its tyres are spot on of course, Hill only put a couple of laps on them! :up: JohnP :)

 

....although Rindt raced on slicks at the Oulton Gold Cup and had the little airbox that's on R4.  :)



#41 Michael Oliver

Michael Oliver
  • Member

  • 867 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:43

Alan, I think the Rindt car is shown in its Zandvoort spec, it is not intended to be a representation of the car raced by Rindt at the Gold Cup... The clue is the little 'winglets' added to the rear wing and the rear-facing rollbar brace, as well as the competition number. The winglets were dropped as they were found to be illegal, as were the sidepods, which had been widened during testing to improve cooling. The sidepods weren't changed until Austria, IIRC, by which time the title had effectively been won. Makes you think what kind of a fuss would have been made about this in 2013! There wasn't even a protest - just a quiet 'word in the ear' from Ken Tyrrell that if it wasn't sorted he would feel obliged to protest...ahh, those were indeed the days.



#42 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 290 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:41

..... and 72 R4 is modelled from the Friday practice at the Gold Cup, when it was soaking wet most of the day. Re-reading the race report from Autosport, Graham's practice sessions were hampered by........ "deflating tyres!" :cool: JohnP  



#43 bill p

bill p
  • Member

  • 358 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 09 October 2013 - 13:23

Hello,

 

here are two beauties :lol:

 

Lotus 72C R2 and R4

 

72_W_08g_zps80f1f087.jpg

 

John-w

 

Fantastic :)



#44 John-w

John-w
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 09 October 2013 - 14:02



..... and 72 R4 is modelled from the Friday practice at the Gold Cup, when it was soaking wet most of the day. Re-reading the race report from Autosport, Graham's practice sessions were hampered by........ "deflating tyres!" :cool: JohnP  

Yes, theR4 is modelled from Friday, because on this day the valve cover was aluminium, if my references are correct  ;)

 

Bild2_zpsba5018b3.jpg

 

John-w



#45 alansart

alansart
  • Member

  • 4,006 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 09 October 2013 - 15:24

Yes, theR4 is modelled from Friday, because on this day the valve cover was aluminium, if my references are correct  ;)

 

 

 

John-w

 

John, your skill and attention to detail is amazing.



#46 Slurp1955

Slurp1955
  • Member

  • 290 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 10 October 2013 - 15:53

Both models are superb John. The Friday at Oulton was my first ever day at a circuit event, spent mostly stood under a tree near Deer Leap. Previously I'd been taken to Shelsey Walsh few times by my mate's Dad, Shelsey being the most local venue to our homes in Kidderminster. The Saturday of The Gold Cup was different altogether, meeting Jochen and Graham Hill at the bottom of a ladder up to a Commentary Post opposite the Pits. The 72 is the greatest of all F1 cars, the best looking and these two models are in the most spectacular liveries. I loved the GLTL paint job but the brief tenure of R/4 under Rob Walker is even better, absolutely beautiful and you have done it more than justice. Funnily enough I never took to the John Player Special livery, but did see Ronnie win at Monza in my first GP abroad in '74 in 72R/8. What a design it was, with its clone the McLaren M23 picking up the mantle for another two seasons after that. My one regret, as a fifteen year-old grammar school oik, I didn't take a camera to the Gold Cup! Thanks for the pics and best regards JohnP

Edited by Slurp1955, 11 October 2013 - 05:26.


#47 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,207 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 10 October 2013 - 17:42

Interesting that Graham obviously had difficulty seeing anything in the wing mirrors, which took a while to sort out. As John has said, his model shows the car in its Friday configuration at Oulton, with 'standard' wing mirrors mounted on either side of the cockpit surround. Later on in that weekend the r/h mirror had been raised slightly:

 

 

 

p12u.jpg

 

 

 

By Monza both mirrors had been raised:

 

 

http://img205.images...5/6207/1ms5.jpg

 

 

and for the last three GPs it had the mirrors cantilevered well outward and upward:

 

 

http://8w.forix.com/ghill/gh-mex70.jpg

 

 

I don't recall anyone else having similar rearward visibility problems with the 72.


Edited by Tim Murray, 10 October 2013 - 17:44.


#48 Michael Oliver

Michael Oliver
  • Member

  • 867 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:40

Interesting that Graham obviously had difficulty seeing anything in the wing mirrors, which took a while to sort out. As John has said, his model shows the car in its Friday configuration at Oulton, with 'standard' wing mirrors mounted on either side of the cockpit surround. Later on in that weekend the r/h mirror had been raised slightly:

 

 

 

p12u.jpg

 

 

 

By Monza both mirrors had been raised:

 

 

http://img205.images...5/6207/1ms5.jpg

 

 

and for the last three GPs it had the mirrors cantilevered well outward and upward:

 

 

http://8w.forix.com/ghill/gh-mex70.jpg

 

 

I don't recall anyone else having similar rearward visibility problems with the 72.

 

Most people who got behind the wheel of a Lotus 72 didn't need to worry about anything catching them up...



#49 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,877 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 17 October 2013 - 22:23

Most people who got behind the wheel of a Lotus 72 didn't need to worry about anything catching them up...

If they (NGH & RRCW) expected Rindt type performances, the Walker car didn't deliver