Most GPs without a win
#1
Posted 05 July 2006 - 11:41
Did Alesi or Fisichella do more GPs before they won?
#3
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:05
Those who never won or are STILL without a win:
1 Andrea de Cesaris 208
2 Martin Brundle 158
3 Derek Warwick 146
4 Jean Pierre Jarier 134
5 Eddie Cheever 132
6 Pierluigi Martini 119
7 Jenson Button 110
8 Philippe Alliot 109
9 Mika Salo 109
10 Nick Heidfeld 107
11 Jos Verstappen 106
12 Pedro Diniz 98
13 Chris Amon 96
Mika Hakkinen got his first win on his 96th start, level with Amon.
Barichello won his 1st GP in his 123rd race. Trulli was on 117 GP's when he won at Monaco. Alesi was on 91 starts. Fisichella on 110.
#4
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:09
De Cesaris 208
Brundle 158
Warwick 146
Jarier 134
Regazzoni 132
Cheever 132
Martini 119
Button 110
Alliot 109
Salo 109
Heidfeld 107
Verstappen 106
Diniz 98
Amon 96
Don't think I missed any. Courtesy of forix.
Mark
#5
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:10
#6
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:19
#7
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:21
#8
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:46
#9
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:54
#10
Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:59
Oh how he must regret giving that win to Irvine. I think in his position, I'd have said stuff it, I'd rather win this and never get another F1 drive!Originally posted by mark f1
Races Started without a win.
Salo 109
#11
Posted 05 July 2006 - 13:18
Originally posted by mark f1
Races Started without a win.
Regazzoni 132
Ooops!
#12
Posted 05 July 2006 - 13:24
Mark
#13
Posted 05 July 2006 - 13:53
#14
Posted 05 July 2006 - 15:33
#15
Posted 05 July 2006 - 15:41
#16
Posted 05 July 2006 - 16:34
#17
Posted 05 July 2006 - 17:19
#18
Posted 05 July 2006 - 17:43
Originally posted by mark f1
Races Started without a win.
Regazzoni 132
He won his fifth GP - Italy 1970 - and went on to win one a year in 1974, 1975 and 1976. There were lengthy win-less periods between Monza 1970 - Nurburgring 1974, and Long Beach 1976 - Silverstone 1979, but no way did either amount to 132 races...
#19
Posted 05 July 2006 - 19:10
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#20
Posted 05 July 2006 - 20:41
Originally posted by stuartbrs
God I miss Alesi....
Sorry to say, he looked a bit average in the DTM last weekend.....
#21
Posted 05 July 2006 - 21:52
#22
Posted 05 July 2006 - 23:01
I mean Jarier......... towards the end of his career he finally gets a drive in a decent car, the Lotus 79, blitzes the field and retires out of fuel a few laps from the end!
#23
Posted 05 July 2006 - 23:14
#24
Posted 06 July 2006 - 05:16
Originally posted by Keir
I saw JPJ race the 79 that season !! He did a nice job a little too late !!
Well... he did a nice job once he had a nice car.
I remember Chapman saying that Jarrier had been the fastest driver he had ever had at Lotus.
#25
Posted 06 July 2006 - 10:14
Chris Amon won three Grand Prix. He just never won any that scored points.
#26
Posted 06 July 2006 - 11:08
Originally posted by Catalina Park
Bah, statistics.
Chris Amon won three Grand Prix. He just never won any that scored points.
I wouldn't be so sure about that...
He scored 9 points in the one I saw him win!
#27
Posted 06 July 2006 - 11:22
#28
Posted 06 July 2006 - 12:01
Originally posted by Catalina Park
OK I am wrong (again) and he would have got another 9 for another one.
Yeah, the Kiwis are like that...
#29
Posted 06 July 2006 - 13:32
Ive been thinking a lot lately about what it is that leaves me cold about modern F1... and there is a lot to choose from..but I keep coming back to Alesi, Berger,Depaillier,Villenueve..etc that used to just love what they did for the sake of it.. Berger mellowed a lot in his later years, but I remember well watching Alesi in a Prost/Ferrari/Benneton or a Jordan with his head cocked to one side and obviously relishing giving a corner death each time he came to it..whilst not a great, he was certainly inspiring to watch... and had a passion for F1 that is clearly lacking a mere 3 or 4 years later.. the last true F1 romantic in my minds eye...
But then my father says that about a different set of drivers completely... at least I listen to him..after all, he did see Chris Amon, Jim Clark, Graham Hill etc at Longford...
#30
Posted 06 July 2006 - 22:01
#31
Posted 07 July 2006 - 21:26
Originally posted by stevewf1
I'm curious about something... what is considered a GP start?
Being on the grid and putting your foot on the accelerator when the light goes green (or when the flag drops)?
#32
Posted 07 July 2006 - 22:10
Originally posted by Paul Taylor
Being on the grid and putting your foot on the accelerator when the light goes green (or when the flag drops)?
Yes, Paul- but the question is when and where is this race taking place...;) My favourite driver has IIANM 40 GP wins- mind you, only 16 in WDC events.
Hans has done a splendid job on his list of pre-War Grand Prix races, but has anything similar been tried for post-War period? Would his criteria be compatible with post-war period?
#33
Posted 07 July 2006 - 23:15
#34
Posted 07 July 2006 - 23:30
#35
Posted 08 July 2006 - 05:29
Originally posted by Dallas84
Who, then, has driven the greatest total number of GP laps without ever having lead a lap?
Mauro Baldi ?
Roberto Moreno ?
#36
Posted 08 July 2006 - 05:30
#37
Posted 09 July 2006 - 12:45
Originally posted by Paul Taylor
Being on the grid and putting your foot on the accelerator when the light goes green (or when the flag drops)?
I know it sounded like a silly question.
However...
What about race re-starts? Did Jacques Laffite "start" the 1986 British GP? Does it count as a "start" even though the race was stopped and started all over again? That would mean that Laffite suffered career-ending injuries in a race he never "started".
What about warmup/formation lap retirements? I thought that lap "counted" towards the total race distance even though they're not racing.
Just wondered if there's an "official" determination as to when a driver actually starts a GP...
#38
Posted 09 July 2006 - 16:29
I CAN'T wait to see what Bernie says! I hope he has the sense to just button it up for once...
#39
Posted 10 July 2006 - 11:25
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#40
Posted 10 July 2006 - 12:24
Originally posted by stevewf1
What about race re-starts? Did Jacques Laffite "start" the 1986 British GP? Does it count as a "start" even though the race was stopped and started all over again? That would mean that Laffite suffered career-ending injuries in a race he never "started".
I seem to recall that this was the race in which Laffite equalled Graham Hill's then record of 176 starts, so the answer to your question is yes I believe.
#41
Posted 10 July 2006 - 13:24
#42
Posted 10 July 2006 - 13:37
Like the King's Foot, it keeps changing...to my mind a driver starts a GP when the flag drops/lights go out. If he stalls on the grid and does not take the re-start it is still a start.Originally posted by stevewf1
Just wondered if there's an "official" determination as to when a driver actually starts a GP...
#43
Posted 10 July 2006 - 14:54
I would guess Brundle. I believe Cheever, Alliot and Verstappen are the other drivers who have also started more than 100 races without leading a single lap.Originally posted by Dallas84
Who, then, has driven the greatest total number of GP laps without ever having lead a lap?
This reminded me of the curious stat of 7 instances in championship history where drivers have won GPs without leading a single lap!;)
#44
Posted 10 July 2006 - 15:17
Brundle has 7522 laps without ever leading one. Next is Eddie Cheever with 5490 laps.
Mark
#45
Posted 10 July 2006 - 15:25
Surely these are, in the main, races where a driver has has 'won' on the road is subsequently given a time penalty (most likely for a jumped start, eg Andretti at Monza) or disqualified. Or are you thinking of some really wierd examples?Originally posted by lofong
...This reminded me of the curious stat of 7 instances in championship history where drivers have won GPs without leading a single lap!;)
#46
Posted 10 July 2006 - 15:34
De Angelis at San Marino is another example, plus the Musso and Fagioli wins with JMF and Brooks with Moss.Originally posted by 2F-001
Surely these are, in the main, races where a driver has has 'won' on the road is subsequently given a time penalty (most likely for a jumped start, eg Andretti at Monza) or disqualified. Or are you thinking of some really wierd examples?
#47
Posted 10 July 2006 - 15:42
Originally posted by 2F-001
Surely these are, in the main, races where a driver has has 'won' on the road is subsequently given a time penalty (most likely for a jumped start, eg Andretti at Monza) or disqualified. Or are you thinking of some really wierd examples?
I would imagine it relates to shared drives where one of the drivers never led a lap - shades of the Indy trivia question about the 2 men who appear on the Borg Warner trophy but never actually ever led a lap of the race.
#48
Posted 10 July 2006 - 15:47
So, if there are seven, and we have five of them...
#49
Posted 10 July 2006 - 16:01
And the devil in me suggests Revson at Canada...
#50
Posted 10 July 2006 - 16:13
The Prost win was in Brasil wasn't it (rather than Kyalami) - wasn't this the disqualifications for running underweight with reservoirs for water-cooled brakes?
There were a few shared-drive wins in the mid-20.s and early 30s, I think, too.
(In the example I cited, Andretti was the 'winner-on-the-road' rather than the winner.)