100 replies to this topic

[Hotwheels]

Post Indy, it becomes even more apparant it's the CAR and not the drivers who actually win the WDC. Having said that , of course Schumi. Alonso and Kimi have it in them to extract the maximum that a car can offer - and sometimes a bit more.

In my opinion , they are a number of drivers out there - who will NEVER win the WDC , despite how good or bad the car / rules are.

Who do you think from the list has the least chance of being a WDC .

[Zoe]

From this list I feel it must be DC who is furthest away from (still) becoming a WC. He's rather at the end of his career instead of his beginning and somehow I don't feel he will end up in one of the two top teams capable of winning the WC.

Zoe

[bystander31]

all of the above

[primer]

Originally posted by bystander31
all of the above

Indeed. I would also add the likes of Trulli and JV to that list. Can't wait for these bunch of losers to be out of F1 and be replaced by young guns.

Edited to confirm that I haven't voted.

[clampett]

If Fisi will have a great Renault next year, as a no1, he can be...

Barrichello, Coulthard, Ralf Schumacher and Trulli (where is he on the list) never will be WDCs. I doubt that Massa, Webber or Button either.

Montoya.. dunno. He have to raise his game because his carreer is detoured now.

And this poll would be far more interesting with Kimi Raikkonen. Is he a WDC material?

[clampett]

Originally posted by primer


Indeed. I would also add the likes of Trulli and JV to that list. Can't wait for these bunch of losers to be out of F1 and be replaced by young guns.

19 of the current 22 drivers should be replaced because they are all losers in your logic.

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by clampett


And this poll would be far more interesting with Kimi Raikkonen. Is he a WDC material?

Haha! Wouldn't make this poll "far more interesting" at all, as only haters and bashers pretend to doubt that Räikkönen is WDC-material.

.......................

I regard all those drivers as WDC-material, but I doubt they can do it now, for different reasons.

DC - the RB3 would have to be a real cracker, which it might be, but next year will be the teams first on B-stone, so it's unlikely, as they would still have to beat Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Honda.

Fisichella and Montoya - They have got more time on their hands, but they'd both have to step up their game significantly, but I believe they can do it. Fisichella is afterall in the R27 next year, and there's no doubt Renault will once again come out with a competitive car.

Barrichello - Yeah, I think he could do it, with a harmonious team and solid backing.

Ralf Schumacher - same as Barrichello.

[Fausta]

I think calling anyone who has made it to F1 "a loser" shows a pathetic lack of class and is a totally insensitive remark to those of us who may be fans of JV or Trulli. A mixture of veterans and young drivers makes the field more interesting. If you don't like someone please keep it to yourself.
KR

[WHITE]

Originally posted by Fausta
I think calling anyone who has made it to F1 "a loser" shows a pathetic lack of class and is a totally insensitive remark to those of us who may be fans of JV or Trulli. A mixture of veterans and young drivers makes the field more interesting. If you don't like someone please keep it to yourself.
KR

The most sensible post I have read in a long time. Thankyou Fausta.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by Fausta
I think calling anyone who has made it to F1 "a loser" shows a pathetic lack of class and is a totally insensitive remark to those of us who may be fans of JV or Trulli. A mixture of veterans and young drivers makes the field more interesting. If you don't like someone please keep it to yourself.
KR

One of the best posts ever.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by primer


Indeed. I would also add the likes of Trulli and JV to that list. Can't wait for these bunch of losers to be out of F1 and be replaced by young guns.

Edited to confirm that I haven't voted.

Its obviously escaped your attention, but JV has actually won a WDC. Its unlikely he will win another, but the fact he has would exclude him from the list.

RB is the standout one on the list for me. He was in the Ferrari during its most dominant period, but never really looked like he would carry the challange if MS had not been there.

[davegp3]

ALL ABOVE ^^^^

[Dolph]

Originally posted by Hotwheels
Post Indy, it becomes even more apparant it's the CAR and not the drivers who actually win the WDC. Having said that , of course Schumi. Alonso and Kimi have it in them to extract the maximum that a car can offer - and sometimes a bit more.

In my opinion , they are a number of drivers out there - who will NEVER win the WDC , despite how good or bad the car / rules are.

Who do you think from the list has the least chance of being a WDC .

Post Indy? Post Indy!?

Congradulations on watching your first year of F1

[davegp3]

Originally posted by Dolph



Post Indy? Post Indy!?

Congradulations on watching your first year of F1

He is learning quickly isn't he?

[Leyser]

Originally posted by clampett
And this poll would be far more interesting with Kimi Raikkonen. Is he a WDC material?

Why add an option that will not get a single vote?

[KWSN - DSM]

Any driver still active as racers in F1 2007 can still become WDC.

They may not all be likely to do so, however each season start will all drivers at zero points, and end with one driver outscoring all others to be come the WDC.

[Mizeus]

Originally posted by clampett
And this poll would be far more interesting with Kimi Raikkonen. Is he a WDC material?

Yes he is, no doubt, but only given the best car. However, WDCs without the best car are so rare that only the true all-time greats ever achieved it.

[Lifew12]

Yuji Ide.

[kismet]

Well, seeing how the world champions on the current grid have won most or, mostly, all of their titles in best cars, I'm going to be boring and opine that just about any driver who's good enough to be signed by a top team could under the right set of circumstances become WDC. To pretend otherwise is just silly.

That said, someone like DC is starting to look like a safe(ish) pick in this poll.

[Hotwheels]

Originally posted by kismet
Well, seeing how the world champions on the current grid have won most or, mostly, all of their titles in best cars, I'm going to be boring and opine that just about any driver who's good enough to be signed by a top team could under the right set of circumstances become WDC. To pretend otherwise is just silly.

That said, someone like DC is starting to look like a safe(ish) pick in this poll.

By your logic, Barrichello in Ferrari 2000 - 2004 , DC in Mclaren 98 - 99 , Fisi in 2005 / 2006 should have also been WDC.

These guys still didn't and in my opinion will never.

[kismet]

I didn't say anyone should win, I said pretty much anyone could. I also added the 'right circumstances' qualifier - that includes anything from the identity of one's teammate to the ball-dropping tendencies of the opposition.

[Rallimies Kujala]

Originally posted by Mizeus
Yes he is, no doubt, but only given the best car. However, WDCs without the best car are so rare that only the true all-time greats ever achieved it.

It's unfortunate that he only came within three points of winning the title with the third best car of 2003. If that had happened we would be spared your constant drivel on Kimi and that would be almost as nice as Räikkönen winning the title. By the way how can you be sure of the future? What will you do if Kimi wins the title next season with not the best car?

[se7en_24]

The problem with this poll is that it's not multi-choice and the results won't mean anything. It's more a 'Which of these drivers do you like the least' poll.

[Mizeus]

Originally posted by Rallimies Kujala


It's unfortunate that he only came within three points of winning the title with the third best car of 2003. If that had happened we would be spared your constant drivel on Kimi and that would be almost as nice as Räikkönen winning the title. By the way how can you be sure of the future? What will you do if Kimi wins the title next season with not the best car?

Well, as you said yourself, he didn't win it. And if he wins the title next year in not-the-best-car, I'll change my mind. So far, I have good reasons to believe in what I say now. However, you are the one sure of the future (in opposite direction to me).

[HP]

Drivers who will NEVER be WDC...

I have to vote for myself.

As to the guys in the list, they might be able to do it, given the right car and circumstances.

[SeanValen]

Eddie Irvine, wait if Mika's engine went in Japan 99, perhaps he would have.

The Eddie Irvine example should be respected, just goes to show you think you know everything, but you know nothing, no one would of predicted how 1999 went, so respect what you don't know and respect extreme possibilities and respect rare occurances, because sometimes they do happen and can happen

[Peter Perfect]

Montoya - Well, he's not going to win it this year, will he even be in F1 next year?
Fisi - Possible, he's got the speed but it looks like his confidence is all over the place. Hopefully his Indy result will help. Depends who his teammate is next year and if he's made teamleader.
DC - Probably too late, the rest of his F1 career seems entwined with RedBull. No doubt next years car will be an improvement though.
Button, Ralf Schumacher, Barrichello (and Trulli) - Again possible, but depends on Honda and Toyota improving.

At the end of the day to win the WDC you have to be in the right car. At the moment that means Ferrari/Renault and maybe McLaren. If you're not in one of those teams you're not going to win it, it doesn't matter who you are.

Perhaps the poll should read - Drivers who will never drive for the top teams.

[Stian1979]

If honda has a exstremly good year RB could.
DC could if he had the best car and a team mate like CK.

None off the drivers exspect JB and RB can take a worls championship because the rest is not in teams that will be in the game for wdc, they have a faster team mate or wont be driving in f1 for loong enough.

Kimi should be on the list so we could have 1 driver there that actualy could stand a realistic chance off geting the WDC.

Sato and Ide don't nead to be there since it's a vaste off space.

[Sakae]

Next five years will be dominated probably by three drivers only, and they are all already at the top today. That eliminates most on the grid from WDC candidacy for near future.

To play the game: Jenson B. will NEVER be WDC (I didn't want to waste my vote on JPM, as that is too easy to guess)

[primer]

Originally posted by Peter Perfect
Montoya - Well, he's not going to win it this year, will he even be in F1 next year?

Not by the looks of it! http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/53033

[chris_canuk]

Originally posted by primer


Indeed. I would also add the likes of Trulli and JV to that list. Can't wait for these bunch of losers to be out of F1 and be replaced by young guns.

Edited to confirm that I haven't voted.

JV is the 1997 WDC.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by primer


Indeed. I would also add the likes of Trulli and JV to that list. Can't wait for these bunch of losers to be out of F1 and be replaced by young guns.

Edited to confirm that I haven't voted.

If you're taking bets that JV will never be champion then I want in.

[Tolyngee]

Originally posted by Fausta
I think calling anyone who has made it to F1 "a loser" shows a pathetic lack of class and is a totally insensitive remark to those of us who may be fans of JV or Trulli. A mixture of veterans and young drivers makes the field more interesting. If you don't like someone please keep it to yourself.
KR

While I obviously do not mean JV or Trulli in this response, be careful by pooling "anyone" together to mean "anyone who has ever driven in a F1 race, or on a F1 race weekend."

There is a reason that 107% rule once came into play.

Specific names don't come to mind at the moment, but there have been several PAY drivers for teams that just flat-out had no business being in an F1 car on a race weekend at the circuit. They made Ide look good!

There was a time in F1 when the 2nd row on the grid may be a full TWO seconds behind the pole time. So, statistically speaking, they (the 2nd row of Qed cars and beyond) might (and did) get lapped!

The teams at the back of the grid (unfortunately pre-qualifying did not just allow some teams to just be excluded altogether, irregardless of if they were the fastest of the S L O W...) might just be eight seconds or so behind the pole.

Now, if you are in a team that (if you say so) "qualifies" to be in a race when you are that slow, but then even your "qualified" teammate is even multi-seconds behind you, well... (you cannot argue "it's the car" here...)

Statistically speaking, you may be lapped within the first ten laps or so of the race, and be multi-mutli-lapped by the end of the race (yep, this did happen!)

Just because you "make it" to F1 does not mean you aren't just a mobile chicane...

And nope, Dennis Vitolo never ever drove in F1...

One definition of "loser" is "someone unable to succeed." While they typically didn't last too long, someone who consistently could not get past pre-Q certainly fits this definition. And you are never going to succeed if you are a mobile chicane.

If "loser" is too harsh, how about a milder term of disappointment/incompetent/failure?

But these "losers" were around before F1 was the more safety-conscious sport that it is now...

Sorry, been spending time watching 70s-80-90s F1 season reviews lately, and altho Bernie takes a lot of crap, F1 today certainly is a much safer and sporty "circus" than yesteryear to me!

But, seriously, perhaps Ide might fall into this category (though inexperience and incapable are two different things), but there certainly have been "losers" in F1...

But, y, I don't like anyone that makes a true star of a sport go "I had no idea which way to go to avoid him, so I ran right into him."

Unfortunately F1 once had veteran losers as well. Watching Ken Tyrrell (and team) roll their eyes as Andrea DeCrasherous writes-off another car was ridiculous...

But, if only speaking of modern F1, perhaps the inexperienced Ide aside, I agree with you... Everyone seems to belong in F1...

[nestor]

Well , I think Kimi will never be WDC , he is just another great driver with the curse of Stirling Moss ....

[Tolyngee]

Originally posted by Hotwheels
Post Indy, it becomes even more apparant it's the CAR and not the drivers who actually win the WDC. Having said that , of course Schumi. Alonso and Kimi have it in them to extract the maximum that a car can offer - and sometimes a bit more.

In my opinion , they are a number of drivers out there - who will NEVER win the WDC , despite how good or bad the car / rules are.

Who do you think from the list has the least chance of being a WDC .

'88-'89 Gerhard Berger really fits the mold then. In those two seaons he had a span where he DNFed more than a season's-worth of races CONSECUTIVELY!!!

While his teammates battle for the DC, Berger found ways to not even make the checkered flag...

Bob Varsha in '89: "If Gerhard didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck at all!"

For being a great, great driver, I am curious if Berger would be at the very top of the list if you were to make a list of the # of weird DNFs a drive encountered in their career. Being taken-out by your teammate's in-car camera breaking your suspension was certainly a good one...

Altho he did once have the nickname of "Gearhead."

[De Weberis]

Originally posted by Clatter
RB is the standout one on the list for me. He was in the Ferrari during its most dominant period, but never really looked like he would carry the challange if MS had not been there.

Ross Brawn said RB could have been WDC twice - while he drove for Ferrari - if MS was not there.
RossB deeply regreted RubensB departure.

[The First MH]

It's a tough poll to vote on, as I don't think any of them will ever be WDC.




Anyway, since when did it take Post indy to figure out it's the car and not the driver????

[boostpressure]

Originally posted by Rallimies Kujala


It's unfortunate that he only came within three points of winning the title with the third best car of 2003. If that had happened we would be spared your constant drivel on Kimi and that would be almost as nice as Räikkönen winning the title. By the way how can you be sure of the future? What will you do if Kimi wins the title next season with not the best car?

**** your a broken record.

Kimi is God, we understand, blah blah blah.

Get over it.

He is a great driver but he won't win the World Title without the best car. 2003 was an exception due to Ferrari's flucuations and Williams' reliability woes/JPM mistakes. That's why Kimi got so close, Montoya was Schumachers real threat for the WDC but too many mistakes were made by him and team and the flucuatons in car performance over the whole year.

Schuey won 6 races and just scraped the title. That should ring a bell in that brain of yours if you have any common sense and can get past your obsession with Kimi being some kind of miracle worker.

Other drivers have done similar efforts and finished higher in the WDC than they really should have, regardless of whether they were fighting for the title or not. Shall we all regard them as God's too for the one or two apparant seasons where they finished higher in the WDC than they should have, given the machinery?

[Ricardo F1]

Funny that Button is top (or not now that I voted for DC) . . . the one guy in the list who probably still has a genuine chance.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by De Weberis

Ross Brawn said RB could have been WDC twice - while he drove for Ferrari - if MS was not there.

Or any other decent driver.

[clampett]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Funny that Button is top (or not now that I voted for DC) . . . the one guy in the list who probably still has a genuine chance.

Button is now beaten by a fading average teammate, how could he be a WDC? Never showed any racecraft except in Hockenheim 2004.

[clampett]

Originally posted by race addicted


Haha! Wouldn't make this poll "far more interesting" at all, as only haters and bashers pretend to doubt that Räikkönen is WDC-material.

So if someone questions Kimi godly talent is a basher or hater?

IMO he won't be a WDC. He lacks the skills to nurse the car, and drive it reliably consistently.

[brooster51]

How about all of the above?

[Youichi]

Originally posted by clampett


Button is now beaten by a fading average teammate, how could he be a WDC? Never showed any racecraft except in Hockenheim 2004.

Hockenheim 2004 ? where he only over took one car, and that one had a bargeboard stuck under it......

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Or any other decent driver.

Yep. Not only could have been, but would have been. Could have been even more ;)

Or less if teammate isn't a Yoong ;)

[clampett]

Originally posted by Youichi


Hockenheim 2004 ? where he only over took one car, and that one had a bargeboard stuck under it......

Well, that was a good race for him after all from 13th to 2nd. Maybe he should aim for his maiden chance for victory without the penalty.

Another good race I recall from Button was Spa 2005. He started poorly but overtook several cars to claim podium finish at the end.

But its still not that much with 110 GPs behind him.

[Mizeus]

Button is hopeless. Had it not been for English press propaganda machine, he would be in the league with other lower-tier drivers.

[LuckyStrike1]

Kimi Raikkonen

[JBonnier]

I'll have to agree on the last one. Kimi won't make it. Once a driver starts to shift teams it spells the end of any WDC-ambitions. Since the early eighties there is only one driver who left a top team before he became a champion and that is Nigel Mansell who left Williams for Ferrari. The rest of the bunch has stayed with the first top team they entered until they took their titles. Why is this such a big deal then? Well, it is about the teams confidence in their driver. A driver who goes to a new team do so in order for the team to provide him wiht a better car. In essence, he wants someone else to solve his problem. But once a WDC, a new team instantly has confidence in the driver. If the results dont come, then the team starts to look at itself in order to fix the problem. Lets say Kimi leaves for Ferrari. He ends up fourth or fifth. Ferrari knows damned well what Schumi did for them. The finger will point in Kimis direction. Kimi should stay in McLaren. Eventually they will get it right and when they do he has a lot of team experience to make use of that advantage. Problem now is that the team doesnt have full confidence in Kimi. Otherwise there wouldn't be no Alonso. If there was a mutual confidence between McLaren and Kimi, he would have signed a long time ago.

JBonnier

[Mizeus]

Originally posted by JBonnier
I'll have to agree on the last one. Kimi won't make it. Once a driver starts to shift teams it spells the end of any WDC-ambitions. Since the early eighties there is only one driver who left a top team before he became a champion and that is Nigel Mansell who left Williams for Ferrari. The rest of the bunch has stayed with the first top team they entered until they took their titles. Why is this such a big deal then? Well, it is about the teams confidence in their driver. A driver who goes to a new team do so in order for the team to provide him wiht a better car. In essence, he wants someone else to solve his problem. But once a WDC, a new team instantly has confidence in the driver. If the results dont come, then the team starts to look at itself in order to fix the problem. Lets say Kimi leaves for Ferrari. He ends up fourth or fifth. Ferrari knows damned well what Schumi did for them. The finger will point in Kimis direction. Kimi should stay in McLaren. Eventually they will get it right and when they do he has a lot of team experience to make use of that advantage. Problem now is that the team doesnt have full confidence in Kimi. Otherwise there wouldn't be no Alonso. If there was a mutual confidence between McLaren and Kimi, he would have signed a long time ago.

JBonnier

My thoughts exactly (now when I read them ;) ). But just like with Mansell, there's a possibility that KR would join a team with the dominant car.