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Smith Climax


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#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 12:29

Please, what is this? And are there any.... pictures ?

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 12:42

Cue David Beard

#3 bradbury west

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 15:36

If someone who will hoist them e mails me, I will scan and send three photos of the car at Silverstone in 99, and I will turn up a bit of narrative.

There is a note on it in David Hodges' A-Z

Roger Lund.

#4 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 15:42

P.M on the way, bradbury.

#5 David Beard

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 16:23

Originally posted by David McKinney
Cue David Beard


Really? :confused: :confused:

#6 David McKinney

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 16:25

Wasn't it a Lotus 16?
(Or perhaps a 12)

#7 bradbury west

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 17:45

Barry is posting photos.

Built in the 1956/57 by Gerald Smith as an f2 car, with a suggestion that there were two built, the car features a spaceframe chassis, the whole package being very compact, but with an apparently generous cockpit area, possibly vacated by now-unused fuel tankage . Suspension was coil and wishbone at the front with something like a Chapman strut at the rear. Finned drums at both ends were featured, very much period, inboard at the rear giving space for the bespoke, one off diff assembly which was served from the Climax FWB via a Velocette motorbike racing gearbox, the change being sequentiial, and proving to be the Achilles heel at the VSCC Meeting in April 99 when the innards of the diff gave up the struggle. Drawings were non-existent I beleive, so it would be a major job to repair it.

The car had been given a couple of runs prior to that by Jeremy Bouckley, he of Lotus FJ book, in 1998 at Shelsley and Prescott, after a comprehensive reastoration by him after he bought it in the early 90s. The standard of detail was superb when I saw it and spoke to him, and he was duly both very proud of the work and heartbroken by the diff's demise.

He told me that it had run in period at Brands, Goodwood and Snetterton. It was understood to have been driven by Alan Stacey and Peter Ashdown, after which it saw use on the hills.

Any more details of this little car would be welcome, just to record it.

Roger Lund.

#8 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 21:41

Here are Roger's pictures of the Smith:

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#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 21:59

I guess that when the car raced in the late 1950s there would have been NO roll-over protection at all.

The car's first race in 1958 appears to be on May 18th at Brands Hatch - driven by Alan Stacey - unclassified;
he then finished 10th at Crystal Palace, beating 2 Coopers; and that's about it, along with a few DNA's and DNS's.

#10 Roger Clark

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 22:35

Alan Stacey (Smith) finished second in the Formula Libre race at Brands Hatch, October 5th 1958. The race was won by Dennis Taylor's Lotus 12. Autosport has a picture of the grid with the Smith in the middle of the front row. The picture is of rather poor quality, but it would be easy to mistake the Smith for a Lotus 12.

#11 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 23:07

What's happening with the diff now? Surely he hasn't given up...

Great little car, a tribute to its creator, but I'm amazed the Velocette gearbox was up to the job.

#12 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 06:28

Given all the 'did not arrives' and 'did not starts', maybe it never was!

#13 Ted Walker

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 07:42

Barry. Remind Roger and I will give him a couple of period photos of it to post when he comes to Prescott

#14 Dutchy

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 12:25

Originally posted by bradbury west
[He told me that it had run in period at Brands, Goodwood and Snetterton. It was understood to have been driven by Alan Stacey and Peter Ashdown, after which it saw use on the hills.

Any more details of this little car would be welcome, just to record it.

Roger Lund. [/B]


It was hillclimbed by Jack Perkins and it was known as the Mason Master (I assume after the drill making company who were a sponsor at the time)

Shame about the OTT roll bar

#15 bradbury west

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 14:37

I have now had a chance to talk with the owner.

The car is all fully repaired, although it turned out to be quite a major job, both mechanically and from a parts point of view.

It transpired that both the diff and the gearbox were seriously damaged, no mention of which element probably damaged the other, the net result being the same. A new diff was finally sourced, being traced as an Austin A40 item, period piece, with the bespoke connection with the Velocette sequential box, for which many new parts were needed, and which took time to source. For what must be obvious reasons, it is used only rarely, Mallory VSCC 50th Anniversary, Shelsley 100th, Prescott, and a couple of others.

At Mallory the clutch pedal broke, at the weld at the bottom, always a risk as it needed massive pressure to depress the clutch, perhaps a problem of being such a hybrid. The car was allowed to run with the Juniors, via Duncan Rabagliati.

The rear end is independent, the diff assembly supporting the inboard drums, with wide based lower links to the bottom of the hub carrier, the drive shaft forming the top link, and the third link being the coilover damper, like the Lotus 12, for which the owner comments that it is often mistaken, consided some form of bitsa based on an original car, rather than as a pure entity in itself.

Jeremy bought the car in the early 90s from Smith's widow . It was built and first raced in 57, so there must be some more entries/results somewhere.

hope this helps

Roger Lund.

#16 bradbury west

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 14:46

I forgot to mention that traction was always a problem, with the light rear end, and power was always good. The delicacy/ weakness of the gearbox in this installation did not help, since feeding in the power was a problem in itself, without the extra one of not being able to transmit it to the tarmac. The consequences of just dropping the clutch on the line were always a reality. A wet Mallory was a mixed blessing/double-edged sword. Once on the move it was fine, apparently.

RL

#17 Roger Clark

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Posted 06 August 2006 - 21:49

This is the Smith at a test day at Prescott in 1969. Copyright Ted Walker, thanks to him for allowing this to be posted.

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#18 bradbury west

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 20:56

I see in CC that a well known European dealer has for sale a car described as a "barn-find Smith Climax", probably the one for which he was seeking identification at Beaulieu IIRC. It looked rather tired and incomplete. It will be interesting to see how the car evolves via restoration, and for what races it may prove to be eligible, but the best of luck to whoever buys it; something different, but appropriate, is always welcome IMHO.

Roger Lund.

#19 T54

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 00:02

One million dollars to the first genius to make invisible roll bars... :

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#20 David Birchall

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 00:54

When asked why I didn't race with a roll bar I used to respond "Because I have no intention of turning it over!"













I'm older and wiser now :blush:

#21 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 11:44

When Jenks got into a car as a passenger and was reminded by the driver to put on his seat belt his response was always "What?!!! Why??? Are you going to crash????!!! We'd better not go then...".

DCN

#22 MCS

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 11:53

Originally posted by Doug Nye
When Jenks got into a car as a passenger and was reminded by the driver to put on his seat belt his response was always "What?!!! Why??? Are you going to crash????!!! We'd better not go then...".

DCN


:lol: Fabulous response!

#23 Dutchy

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 12:34

Vintage Jenks ;)

#24 bradbury west

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 13:35

IIRC, Sir Stirling used a variation of the Jenks argument to gain approval for continued use of his "traditional" style race helmet, certainly for Goodwood.
RL

#25 Peter Morley

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 13:52

Originally posted by Doug Nye
When Jenks got into a car as a passenger and was reminded by the driver to put on his seat belt his response was always "What?!!! Why??? Are you going to crash????!!! We'd better not go then...".

DCN


I keep telling people a spike in the middle of the steering wheel would be a far better safety device than an airbag.
I always worry about people who plan to have accidents when buying cars!

#26 Rob Miller

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 18:31

One million dollars to the first genius to make invisible roll bars...



How about a pop-up?

#27 piperp2

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 17:05

Does any one know any more about Gerald Smith, apparantly he came from the Colchester area and drove both Lola's and Elva's.

#28 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 18:48

Does any one know any more about Gerald Smith, apparantly he came from the Colchester area and drove both Lola's and Elva's.


According to Martin Krejci's site, he also raced an MG/Ford at Silverstone in 1951.

Vince H.


#29 arttidesco

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 00:08

IIRC, Sir Stirling used a variation of the Jenks argument to gain approval for continued use of his "traditional" style race helmet, certainly for Goodwood.
RL


Sir Stirling must have won the same argument with Bernie and the safety personnel at Brands Hatch in 1982 !