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Cooper-Conrero F1: what is this?


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#1 Team Gunston

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 15:02

Gino Munaron was classified 3rd at the 1961 Mont-Ventoux hillclimb, supposedly driving a 1.5-litre F1 Cooper-Conrero. The very same car was driven at the same place the following years (1962 and 1963) by a Frenchman named Baboulin.

I thought this car was the old Alfa Romeo powered Cooper T43 Munaron also drove at Pau and Syracuse in 1961, but the 2 photos published in the Maurice Louche's book "Mont Ventoux - 75 Ans de Sports Mécaniques" show what is apparently a more more modern, more streamlined car.

Could someone here give me more details about this Cooper-Conrero ? Was it really a T43 chassis updated by Vigilio Conrero ? Or a former T51 from Scuderia Castelloti ? Was the car entered by Squadra Conrero ? And who was this Baboulin : the same René Baboulin who was later to build famous buggies ?

Thank you for your contribution,

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#2 Team Gunston

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 22:21

Nobody interested ? Any link with the mysterious "second" Centro-Sud Cooper T53 of 1963 ? I wonder.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 05:28

Photographs in Maurice Louche's Mont Ventoux book show that the car was a T53
Centro-Sud were still campaigning their T53 - their only one AFAIK - throughout the period in question

#4 Team Gunston

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 09:02

I agree on both points David. And there is the problem. The car looks like a lowline Cooper, but where this new T53 comes from. Remember that its first appearance was in 1961 and by that date, T53s were brand new production cars. oldracingcars.com site doesn't speak of a Cooper-Conrero. Allen brown's opinion would be welcome.

#5 David McKinney

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 09:37

Perhaps I shouldn't have been so hasty - the pictures could just as well show an uprated T56 FJ

#6 Team Gunston

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 14:42

Cooper T56 ? Not a bad idea at first glance, but I don't think so after a closer look. Front and sides parts of the car show distinctive F1 chassis characteristics.

Another thing that confuses me is the appearance in 1963, from apparently nowhere, of this second Centro-Sud T53 or "T53-looking" car at Imola (already discussed on TNF through an old thread). I remember a photo of this mysterious car just after it was purchased by an American with Cooper-Alfa Romeo written on it, something apparently nobody noticed at that time... I cannot prevent me from establishing a link between a Cooper-Conrero and a Cooper-Alfa Romeo...

#7 Team Gunston

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 16:33

This is the old and interesting thread I was referring to :

http://forums.autosp...mola centro sud

#8 Team Gunston

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 20:57

After some hectic Googling, it appears that the Cooper-Conrero I am looking for was also known as a de Tomaso-Conrero or de Tomaso-Alfa Romeo in other races. And apparently, I am not the only one wanting to know more :

http://www.qv500.com/detomasof1.php

Also found that :

http://images.google...ttp...6lr=&sa=N

My conclusion is the Munaron/Baboulin lowline was initially a de Tomaso built car (from Cooper parts), and for reasons I don't know presently, it was re-christened a Cooper when relationships between Alejandro de Tomaso and his initial partner or buyer were broken.

Other conclusion : wasn't the second Centro-Sud T53 a de Tomaso-built chassis also, even if there is no link between the Munaron/Baboulin car and the 1963 Imola example ?

I would like very much to know specialists opinion.

#9 ERault

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:52

Some of you may find that link about the Cooper-Conrero interesting :

http://www.galeriede...oper-conrero-f1



#10 dretceterini

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 13:00

Some of you may find that link about the Cooper-Conrero interesting :

http://www.galeriede...oper-conrero-f1



Not mentioned is the fact that the T53 Cooper based car had an Alfa-Conrero engine (1500cc based on Alfa Giulietta 1300cc motor) had a twin-spark head and a Conrero "desmo" valve train system, and was rated at 180 DIN horsepower!

Edited by dretceterini, 27 July 2009 - 13:09.


#11 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 13:16

Not mentioned is the fact that the T53 Cooper based car had an Alfa-Conrero engine (1500cc based on Alfa Giulietta 1300cc motor) had a twin-spark head and a Conrero "desmo" valve train system, and was rated at 180 DIN horsepower!


I would think that is the real horsepower plus the distance in steps to the telephone to tell the press about it........

#12 Carter Hendricks

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 15:54

Not mentioned is the fact that the T53 Cooper based car had an Alfa-Conrero engine (1500cc based on Alfa Giulietta 1300cc motor) had a twin-spark head and a Conrero "desmo" valve train system, and was rated at 180 DIN horsepower!


That's interesting, for sure. I was aware of Conrero's 1900 desmo experiments, but
that engine's layout gives a lot more room to play. The Conrero 1900 dyno sheets
that I have seen are more realistic, with enough supporting information. But I'd sure
like to learn more about this magical 1500.

--Carter

#13 dretceterini

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 18:40

That's interesting, for sure. I was aware of Conrero's 1900 desmo experiments, but
that engine's layout gives a lot more room to play. The Conrero 1900 dyno sheets
that I have seen are more realistic, with enough supporting information. But I'd sure
like to learn more about this magical 1500.

--Carter



I have to find my Conrero book, as it has some deatils. The book was done about 20 years ago, and is almost impossible to find today. The only place that might have a copy is the book store at the Monza racetrack...

I'll post to this tread as soon as I can find the book amongst my many piles of stuff I have to sort out....I know it's here somewhere :(

#14 Allen Brown

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 21:10

I have to find my Conrero book, as it has some deatils. The book was done about 20 years ago, and is almost impossible to find today. The only place that might have a copy is the book store at the Monza racetrack...

I'll post to this tread as soon as I can find the book amongst my many piles of stuff I have to sort out....I know it's here somewhere :(

What a fascinating thread, which I managed to miss in 2006 and miss again this year.

Have you discovered any more Dr E?