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#51 Paul Parker

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 13:17

Worse still Vitesse 2 the party that might once have taken on this status quo has itself been morally corrupted.

Bums on seats and we're doing very nicely thank you is their credo. We have all, regardless of our political bias, been betrayed. It also has to be said that if you espouse views like this publicly you quickly discover that whole sections of the British public are simply not bothered. Not only those who have taken the State's shilling either.

At the risk of offending even more people I believe we should be much more like the French. If we don't like something then we should refuse to abide by it/pay for it and just reject it. Sadly the inhabitants of Westminster and Whitehall can always reply upon supine apathy, laziness and ignorance if all else fails.

Meanwhile I am amazed that anything functions at all here, never mind the risky, high capital expenditure world of car manufacturing. Just to throw in a small footnote I see that Ford has now got the legal ownership of the Rover name

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#52 soubriquet

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 13:17

It's interesting to try to understand why the US car industry is so intent on suicide. Here's Wikipedia on CAFE, the really clever law that turned Americans from monster cars to monster trucks.

http://en.wikipedia....ge_Fuel_Economy

And here is the really clever think tank advising the US motor industry that bigger, heavier vehicles, more cast iron, less aluminium and plastic is the way of the future.

http://www.heritage....ment/BG1458.cfm

#53 RTH

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 14:17

One bit of information that fell out a couple of weeks ago, it was revealed when Labour came to power about 10 years ago there were 30 press officers in Downing Street now there are over 300 of them employed at a cost in excess of over £30M a year . their function quite evidently is to conceal the news and any useful facts from the electorate.

Todays news direct from the mouth of the Hungarian prime minister that his government deliberately deceived the people over a long period about the economy in order to be elected.
Overnight this caused bloody rioting and a very uncertain ongoing outcome.

#54 bradbury west

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 14:25

Originally posted by RTH
One bit of information that fell out a couple of weeks ago, it was revealed when Labour came to power about 10 years ago there were 30 press officers in Downing Street now there are over 300 of them employed at a cost in excess of over £30M a year . their function quite evidently is to conceal the news and any useful facts from the electorate.

Todays news direct from the mouth of the Hungarian prime minister that his government deliberately deceived the people over a long period about the economy in order to be elected.
Overnight this caused bloody rioting and a very uncertain ongoing outcome.


In the same information it emerged that John "No jobs" Prescott still has THREE press officers.

Don't forget the army of extra labour voters, sorry, additional public employees taken on ion the past 9 years. One in four of the employed populace is a state employee, excluding those on benefit etc.

RL

#55 ian senior

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 14:30

Originally posted by bradbury west


One in four of the employed populace is a state employee

RL


Speaking as one such parasite, some of you may be interested to know that my department is currently running a redundancy scheme for its employees. So perhaps I should volunteer for it and get a real job - I've had enough of sponging off my fellow taxpayers.

#56 Paul Parker

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 14:37

What is so encouraging and at the same time so depressing about this thread is that any attempt to discuss the foregoing political manipulation, lies and general misinformation about what, where and why in the UK is simply not possible in the UK press. They wont print anything at all that directly challenges UK law and administration as I believe we can still be charged with sedition.

Elsewhere others (BRG I think) have posited the idea that we get what we deserve but we are effectively powerless regardless for whom we vote. The Swiss practice of consensual politics is quite good but in practice can make it very difficult to change anything even when it is obviously wrong (I live there for part of the year so know of what I am speaking). Nevertheless it is properly democratic unlike the UK.

As for the recent events in Hungary, they are really brave having stood up to the Soviet tyranny in 1956. Alas here no such thing would occur and I suspect that the power of the British state is in fact much more effective and sinister in its control even if it appears benign, than most realise.

#57 ensign14

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 14:55

Originally posted by Paul Parker
What is so encouraging and at the same time so depressing about this thread is that any attempt to discuss the foregoing political manipulation, lies and general misinformation about what, where and why in the UK is simply not possible in the UK press. They wont print anything at all that directly challenges UK law and administration as I believe we can still be charged with sedition.

Not true - there is no chance of a prosecution sticking unless it is an actual, credible call to violence. The constitutional right to free speech is pretty powerful, notwithstanding the shameful, fascistic Serious Organized Crime and Police Act 2005, that should be renamed the Let's Ban Brian Haw From Calling Bliar A Genocidal Maniac Even Though There May Be An Element Of Truth In It Act 2005, which specifically forbids free speech around the Mother of Parliaments. More oppression from the hateful turdwipes currently micromanaging daily life.

See here: woman convicted for reading the names of the dead outside the Cenotaph

Hitler would have been proud.

Originally posted by Paul Parker
The Swiss practice of consensual politics is quite good but in practice can make it very difficult to change anything even when it is obviously wrong (I live there for part of the year so know of what I am speaking). Nevertheless it is properly democratic unlike the UK.

And even that's not an ideal model as it leads to ochlocracy. Hence I can't buy a few square miles of Swiss land and host motor races on it. The tyranny of the majority.

#58 FLB

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 15:42

Originally posted by sterling49
I also agree with the level of debt so many discussed, in order to purchase something, best have the means to pay for it.......

There are some companies that are beginning to understand just that, at least in the third sector (services) :

http://www.indiadail...orial/13235.asp

#59 sterling49

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 15:54

Originally posted by FLB

There are some companies that are beginning to understand just that, at least in the third sector (services) :

http://www.indiadail...orial/13235.asp


A good article..... I for one think it is obscene for a company to take the profit out of one country and put the infrastructure elsewhere....I have just insured my wifes car elsewhere after finding the call centre was in.....Cape Town ZA.......quite handy for Blighty really!

I must be getting old and old fashioned, something about earning more than you spend!!!!

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#60 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 19:04

sterling49:

I think you are part of the wave that is building. I bought a Dell Computer and I either speak to India or Canada...both do a decent job; BUT they are taking food off of American workers tables.
It's the same everywhere, globalization is ruining the quality of life everywhere; and it's about to blow up bigtime...via this blacklash. A lot of politicans are going to loss there jobs in Ameica because of it.

Back to the main point, will the new guy at Ford REALLY have the balls to sell Jag or Aston-Martin?
Wouldn't be ironical if Jacques Nasser did it and he succeeded at it! Now that would REALLY chap ole Billy boy's backside...I hope he does it!

#61 sterling49

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 19:33

Originally posted by David M. Kane
sterling49:

I think you are part of the wave that is building. I bought a Dell Computer and I either speak to India or Canada...both do a decent job; BUT they are taking food off of American workers tables.
It's the same everywhere, globalization is ruining the quality of life everywhere; and it's about to blow up bigtime...via this blacklash. A lot of politicans are going to loss there jobs in Ameica because of it.

Back to the main point, will the new guy at Ford REALLY have the balls to sell Jag or Aston-Martin?
Wouldn't be ironical if Jacques Nasser did it and he succeeded at it! Now that would REALLY chap ole Billy boy's backside...I hope he does it!


David....glad we are reading off the same script.....I too have a dell and have spoken recently to India, and other places....obscene IMHO.When I was in Canada last summer, most of the people I spoke to with reference the motor trade could not(or would not) see what was coming :eek:

I reckon the guy they all have to look out for is Carlos Ghosn.........who would ever have thought that the Regie would ever run Nissan :eek:

#62 Sharman

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 21:17

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David M. Kane
[B]sterling49:

; BUT they are taking food off of American workers tables.

Sorry David but a lot of Brits feel the same way about American Corporate behaviour in the past
JF

#63 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 21:32

True, Motorola, Ford, GM and Lilly and others have stolen a lot of British talent. All my friends iin Indy were English and Aussies. I reckon we're about to get more with Max Moseley's chop plan.
As a result America has gotten just what they deserved from these lying bloodsuckers. Watch our next election! BTW, I'm a Republican...

See I didn't mention Oswald once...

#64 Sharman

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 09:00

David
Did you mean Lee Harvey or SIR ?;)
JF

#65 Paul Parker

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 11:55

I have friends who live just outside of Indianapolis and the proliferation of Aussies and Limeys is of course due to the racing.

Your quote David "As a result America has gotten just what they deserved from these lying bloodsuckers", who is that aimed at? Surely not us wonderful anglo saxons/celts.

Joking apart let's hope that the reported backlash against 'outsourcing' is really true but I'm not so sure. The stranglehold that accountants (and lawyers) have over private enterprise in the Western World and their short term, cheapest is best philosophies are going to be very hard to shift.

Meanwhile back at the ranch....................................

#66 jcbc3

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 12:37

And they say that the threads in the RC degenerates......................... :rolleyes:


(Did I fail to mention somewhere I'm an accountant? AND PROUD OF IT!!! :lol: )

#67 Paul Parker

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 13:11

Then you must know the truth of it jcb 3.

#68 jcbc3

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 14:59

I do. But they can't make me talk. I only acted on orders.

#69 David M. Kane

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 15:42

I think corporations, particularly American have become societies unto themselves who value their corporation over their country and the overall betterment of the total world. We live in a "me, me...only me world and I'm getting tired of it.

I was referring "Sir" of course, Lee wasn't into cars...

I'm REALLY angry at Detroit, in fact it has become the most socially dysfunctional city in America IMHO.

Ford is going to need a lot more than this new guy!

That being said I like the XK and I'd really like an Aston IF I won the lottery...it would set me off from the "hairdressers".

#70 RTH

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 08:37

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=15113

#71 rgsuspsa

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 15:01

Originally posted by Paul Parker
In brief response to Ray Bell's comment about statistics from RTH "How could they remain hidden"?

It is because Brits are never knowingly told the truth by their governments unless it suits the purpose politically. Also according to a legal friend of mine many years ago British politicians are not legally obliged to tell us anything, partly because of our very loose and make it up as you go along 'constitution'. This status quo cannot be challenged in the orthodox sense and Mr. Average Brit can only turn to the very people who are responsible for the problem(s) in the first place.

The Treasury can say what it likes and how are we supposed to know otherwise unless we are directly involved or very well informed. In the UK that means virtually nobody. In any case we still cannot do anything about it.


Paul: This description seems to apply to every government which I have knowledge of
and exposure to. Such is the nature of human beings when organized into groups immune to direct and identifiable consequences of their conduct. Certainly the case in my country, the U.S.A.

#72 David M. Kane

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 15:31

Amen...the truth never left the lips of any American politican in my lifetime!

#73 Paul Parker

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:28

Yes of course many governments are disingenuous and untrustworthy but the fact remains that the UK is more heavily censored than any other western country (to the best of my knowledge) and you can find out more about what is going on here elsewhere.

For instance the now forgotten spy memoirs written by an old man (name escapes me) about 10/15 years ago that could not be published in the UK but were in Australia. I recall at the time that a serious article in one of the British broadsheets stated that if you wanted the truth about the UK then the Australian and Canadian press would oblige, not presumably being subject to the all pervasive omnipotent Secrets Act that protects all British politicians, most civil servants and a huge number of other persons (it even covers some aspects of the Royal Mail or whatever they call it nowadays I believe) who are effectively silenced by the very real threat of prosecution by the state if they dare tell the truth even about matters banal. Recent security issues have strengthened this stranglehold.

As I have said many times before try asking your elected representative what, where and why about literally anything to do with the country's economic, social or general wellbeing and you will fobbed off or more likely simply ignored. As Vitesse 2 stated we are also in thrall to hundreds of unelected bodies and persons over whom we have no control and little or no knowledge even though we are paying for them.

The UK presents a democratic facade but it is a sham and this pretence of moral probity is what I find so unacceptable and inappropriate.

#74 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 16:00

The world is now managed by Corporations, they have the say, you don't...

I just hope Jacques Nasser buys Jag...

#75 RTH

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 11:26

Latest on the Aston Martin sale

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=15211

#76 RTH

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 12:30

Pictures of the new Aston Martin DBS

http://www.caranddri...martin-dbs.html

AM CEO Ulrich Bez himself in the frame as a bidder for Aston with Equity Partners is something of a car enthusiast to the point where currently he has a new (full size ) Porsche 993 in his living room as an ornament.

Anyone here for instance got an (say) an Isis in their front room !!;)

#77 jcbc3

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 12:43

Originally posted by RTH
Pictures of the new Aston Martin DBS

http://www.caranddri...martin-dbs.html
....


What an eyesore :eek:


Of the modern Astons, I love the DB7, 8 and 9. The Vanquish is not my cuppa but passable. That 'thing' is a complete trainwreck of conflicting styling.

#78 Paul Parker

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 12:56

The 'new' DBS's styling is really a predictable development of the other Astons with the usual modern styling cues and quasi-downforce stuff at front and rear.

I certainly agree that it is not attractive, but then many cars including the more exotic are no better looking, at least in my subjective opinion.

#79 ian senior

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 12:59

Not good. Looks like the Barryboys have been at it.

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#80 jcbc3

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 13:09

Originally posted by Paul Parker
The 'new' DBS's styling is really a predictable development of the other Astons with the usual modern styling cues and quasi-downforce stuff at front and rear.


But isn't the very point of Aston Martin that they don't 'need' modern styling cues?

Originally posted by Paul Parker
I certainly agree that it is not attractive, but then many cars including the more exotic are no better looking, at least in my subjective opinion.


Agree 100%

#81 David M. Kane

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 14:00

There a new book out called, "Branding Iron" that says Fords needs to drop Lincoln-Mercury, Jag, etc. and concentrate on 3 brands...Ford, Jag and I forget the 3rd. I "think" Volvo?

#82 petefenelon

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 15:53

Originally posted by RTH
Pictures of the new Aston Martin DBS

http://www.caranddri...martin-dbs.html

AM CEO Ulrich Bez himself in the frame as a bidder for Aston with Equity Partners is something of a car enthusiast to the point where currently he has a new (full size ) Porsche 993 in his living room as an ornament.

Anyone here for instance got an (say) an Isis in their front room !!;)


Looks like what you'd get if a Chris Bangle BMW buggered a DB9. At least, the hindquarters look very Munich.