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S.Q.T. (stupid question thread)


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#851 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 19:37

I know how the worldwide supply chain works, thanks. But with something as specific as racing tires, you'd just assume they'd be done at HQ.


You may, I wouldn't necessarily. Turkey is their largest factory.

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#852 SpartanChas

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 19:38

What's that pipe that comes out of the NASCAR drivers head? I'd guess its to keep their head cool but its pretty obvious that it fails quite often.

#853 HaydenFan

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 19:58

What's that pipe that comes out of the NASCAR drivers head? I'd guess its to keep their head cool but its pretty obvious that it fails quite often.


Trying to cool temps upwards of 120 degrees using minimal power does lead to things not working right.

#854 john_smith

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:58

why do a lot of steering wheels in race cars have the marker to indicate the top of the wheel?

it's not like the driver will not notice that the car is not steering straight.

#855 sergeym

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:52

why do a lot of steering wheels in race cars have the marker to indicate the top of the wheel?

it's not like the driver will not notice that the car is not steering straight.


Maybe that's because steering wheels are usually replaceble. Markings probably exist to simplify installing the wheel properly.

#856 sopa

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 21:12

I have a stupid question. Whenever I see that in the old days (20 years ago) there were lots of sparks coming from the bottom of the car... I have a question - isn't it really efficient if the floor is just slightly higher so that the car doesn't touch the ground? Or how do you explain it that getting a lot of distraction from floor-asphalt contact doesn't slow the car down?

#857 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 21:20

why do a lot of steering wheels in race cars have the marker to indicate the top of the wheel?

it's not like the driver will not notice that the car is not steering straight.


Apparently Mark Donahue started it, quotes from here:

I believe that Mark Donohue was the first to do it, and I saw him use the tape stripe either in CanAm or IMSA (can't remember which). He said, the tape was there because if it's on top in a corner then you're doing the corner correctly (slip angles, sliding, etc.). I guess that the tape told him that the car was sliding just enough to generate great lap times while not abusing the tires.


Good memory Peter!! Mark Donahue taughted it for use at racing speeds for apexes where your wheel if turned toward the inside corner at apex meant you turned in too early and away from the corner meant you were late. But overall one cannot unwind the wheel if they are early period.

I find this to be the case with DE students and the propensity to turn in early and it scares the crap out of me cause I know all the bad stuff that can happen at track out!! That it why we instruct I guess!!


To be more precise, it's useful as an immediate visual reference that tells you that if, on corner exit, you have to turn the wheel more, you have apexed too early (and explains why you are running out of real estate) and if you are unwinding, you have apexed too late (and have more real estate than you needed, so you could have carried more speed).



#858 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 21:47

Those seem like really poor explanations. You'd know all that from how much you're actually turning the wheel. If you don't know how far you've turned the wheel in the corner, get out of the car and take the bus home.

#859 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 21:53

Those seem like really poor explanations. You'd know all that from how much you're actually turning the wheel. If you don't know how far you've turned the wheel in the corner, get out of the car and take the bus home.


I think the point is to make it easier to see how much you turned the wheel, and that's not necessarily straightforward to tell, depending on the directness of the steering.

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#860 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 22:13

You're holding the wheel though. How do you not know how much you turned it or where you are currently holding it? Maybe if the car had 100% steering assistance or something, but even then...

#861 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 22:18

You're holding the wheel though. How do you not know how much you turned it or where you are currently holding it? Maybe if the car had 100% steering assistance or something, but even then...


But unless the steering is very direct, you may have to change hand positions prior to turn-in. Edit: And in any case you may not notice minute differences (maybe from setup changes or track condition changes) just from holding it, and the visual feedback may help.. Also see: http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/1.htm

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 18 January 2013 - 22:21.


#862 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 23:43

If the tape is straight up but the car is still turning


How do these people drive around a corner and not know it's sliding? "Oh, the tape on the wheel is centered. That's strange...". Did you forget the bit where you corrected the steering so you were back to center?

#863 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 00:04

How do these people drive around a corner and not know it's sliding? "Oh, the tape on the wheel is centered. That's strange...". Did you forget the bit where you corrected the steering so you were back to center?


You know how one uses reference points to help with breaking points, timing of turn-in, etc? Think of it as another reference point that helps you to keep your bearings. Nobody's saying that it's completely impossible to drive without the strip.

#864 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 00:09

No but it's so far removed from all the OBVIOUS signs that I don't see how it aids in any way. If you can't figure out how well the car is turning and need tape, you're probably too stupid to remember what the tape is for.

#865 Option1

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 00:12

Or it's in the "you're not a real racing driver driving a real race car unless you have real racing driver race car tape on your real racing car steering wheel" category.

Neil

#866 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:25

No but it's so far removed from all the OBVIOUS signs that I don't see how it aids in any way. If you can't figure out how well the car is turning and need tape, you're probably too stupid to remember what the tape is for.


Call Mark Donahue in heaven and complain to him :p

#867 swintex

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:43

No but it's so far removed from all the OBVIOUS signs that I don't see how it aids in any way. If you can't figure out how well the car is turning and need tape, you're probably too stupid to remember what the tape is for.

I know what you mean Ross, but don't you think that if the story is true, and the practice originated with Donohue, that he must have found there to be some "Unfair" advantage in it?

This is Donohue we're talking about after all.

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#868 kevins

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:18

This is Donohue we're talking about after all.


With the greatest respect to Mark Donohue, I'm with Ross on this one. Someone is having a laugh to say a professional racing driver needs tape to tell them they turned the wheel, the same one they are holding...

#869 grackle

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:39

With the greatest respect to Mark Donohue, I'm with Ross on this one. Someone is having a laugh to say a professional racing driver needs tape to tell them they turned the wheel, the same one they are holding...

A NASCAR commentator claimed it was more for the pitstops than the driving. Occasionally they end up sliding into a tight pit at odd angles and the tape is to get their tires straight to the car so that the tirechangers are not slowed down.

Edited by grackle, 19 January 2013 - 10:41.


#870 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:19

It'd kind of make sense in something like rallying, where you tend to see it more often, because they turn the wheel so much and it goes well past 360 degrees. And you're hands are coming on and off the wheel as you make large adustments. So as a visual 'up'. But with the wheel going more than 360 it's not necessarily going to be straight when it's centered.

Back in the Coulthard Hakkinen years he had a horizontal bar across the top of his butterfly-shaped steering wheel and Hakkinen didn't. I think he said it helped him figure out when the wheel was straight, or rather when it was out of alignment or the suspension had been bent. But you'd think you'd already know that from the forces coming through the wheel.



#871 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:46

With the greatest respect to Mark Donohue, I'm with Ross on this one. Someone is having a laugh to say a professional racing driver needs tape to tell them they turned the wheel, the same one they are holding...


Except that appears not really to be the claimed reason, read it again about the apexes. Edit: And once more, think about the other reference points drivers use. Such as timing their breaking points according to static signs by the track side. Someone who doesn't know about this could upon learning about it conceivably come up with, "Someone is having a laugh to say a professional racing driver needs a sign to tell them to break the car, the same one they are sitting in ...". And yet it's a clue that helps

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 January 2013 - 12:49.


#872 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:50

That's a starting reference point, they don't 'drive to it'. In fact if the boards are fractionally mis-spaced the drivers are usually saying "I think these are off?"

#873 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:54

That's a starting reference point, they don't 'drive to it'. In fact if the boards are fractionally mis-spaced the drivers are usually saying "I think these are off?"


There's the rather famous story of someone in the 60ies or seventies going off because someone had moved an ad sign.
Edit: And nobody was saying they 'drive to' the wheel tape either, just that it helps some people spot subtle differences. (And everyone, I'm not arguing for the current practice of sticking a tape on road car wheels in order to look cool. I just don't see the problem some of you have with some individuals, including Donahue apparently, saying that it's helpful to them. So what?). Edit 2: And anyway, the "stupid question" was why it's there. That's why it's there, whether the claimed benefits are objectively true or not.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 19 January 2013 - 15:57.


#874 Rosberg

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:26

In the first test of 2013, can you give drivers without a seat in the car? For example, Force India giving out test drives for Sutil, Bianchi, Razia, who have been unconfirmed.

#875 SpartanChas

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:32

Caterham had Trulli drive last year before they replaced him with Petrov. Not sure how much of a precedent that is.

#876 BullHead

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:32

I would imagine at a test a team can put whoever they want in a car.... Could be mistaken though....

#877 HaydenFan

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:47

^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, you can test whoever you like, whether you intend to do nothing more than give them just a handful of laps for "fun", or you fully intend to bring them aboard as a race driver or test driver. BAR did that a few times in 2004-2005 with their driver development program. A few drivers who never otherwise would have gotten close to an F1 seat tested whole days with the team. I think in today's F1 it will be more different though. If they put a driver in a car for any laps of testing they are doing it for a reason. They are looking at him/her as a potential driver.

#878 Sin

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:05

I'm not the greatest expert when it comes to technical stuff, so my Stupid Question is:

Are even the backmarker F1 cars faster than any GP2 cars?

#879 HaydenFan

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:23

Just as a base, Charles Pic technically DNQ'd at Silverstone with a 1:54.143. That is opposed to Fabio Leimer's pole winning time of 2:01.889 the same day.

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#880 charly0418

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:28

^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, you can test whoever you like, whether you intend to do nothing more than give them just a handful of laps for "fun", or you fully intend to bring them aboard as a race driver or test driver. BAR did that a few times in 2004-2005 with their driver development program. A few drivers who never otherwise would have gotten close to an F1 seat tested whole days with the team. I think in today's F1 it will be more different though. If they put a driver in a car for any laps of testing they are doing it for a reason. They are looking at him/her as a potential driver.


Monza:

Slowest in F1 qualy: De la Rosa 1:27
Fastest in Gp2 qualy: Max Chilton 1:31


Not even close

#881 discover23

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 18:56

I had no idea where to post this question.
Anyone here knows what Jarno Trulli has been up to?


#882 midgrid

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 19:00

Concentrating on his wine-making business.

#883 discover23

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 19:04

Concentrating on his wine-making business.

thanks. :up:

#884 Zoetrope

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:12

Many times people are comparing drivers from different eras. But has any current driver driven a old car on a GP track so we can compare his lap times to oldies? I know many drivers drove old cars, but has anyone actually been hot lapping?

#885 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:28

That'd be hard to do because a lot of tracks have been repaved and of course modern tire technology is a lot better even if you're making the same kind of tire as the old days.

For instance cars in historic racing go faster than they used to.

#886 RedBaron

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:06

What is a modesty panel? I can guess it's to smooth out the stepped noses for appearance.

Why use one or not use one, is it an advantage to/not to use it? Why launch a car without one then add one later... I'm baffled, wouldn't this change the front of the car a great deal? I must have missed this story entirely.

if you're going to have a stepped nose then cover it up so it's flowing, why have the stepped nose anyway?

:confused:

#887 Jejking

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:06

What is a modesty panel? I can guess it's to smooth out the stepped noses for appearance.

Why use one or not use one, is it an advantage to/not to use it? Why launch a car without one then add one later... I'm baffled, wouldn't this change the front of the car a great deal? I must have missed this story entirely.

if you're going to have a stepped nose then cover it up so it's flowing, why have the stepped nose anyway?

:confused:

The reason for the stepped nose is to get the pointy thing lower so that there is less risk of it penetrating another car or driver during an accident.

#888 RedBaron

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:24

The reason for the stepped nose is to get the pointy thing lower so that there is less risk of it penetrating another car or driver during an accident.


Yes, that part I am clear on, but why is there a modest panel? Maybe I'm missing something here.

_____/---------- <---------- The nose goes like that without a modesty panel. Low then a step and then higher.

Teams wouldn't make it 'step' all last season unless it was an advantage to make it a step over a smooth transition to a higher level. So the step is obviously better? So why would they welcome adding a modesty panel to smooth out the step when it isn't required and some teams will use it and others won't.

If the car launches with a step, I have been read some will go onto 'run with a modesty panel later' Why make the step in the first place if you plan to add a modesty panel.

I'm confused.

Anyone able to help me out here?



#889 Fastcake

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:37

Yes, that part I am clear on, but why is there a modest panel? Maybe I'm missing something here.

_____/---------- <---------- The nose goes like that without a modesty panel. Low then a step and then higher.

Teams wouldn't make it 'step' all last season unless it was an advantage to make it a step over a smooth transition to a higher level. So the step is obviously better? So why would they welcome adding a modesty panel to smooth out the step when it isn't required and some teams will use it and others won't.

If the car launches with a step, I have been read some will go onto 'run with a modesty panel later' Why make the step in the first place if you plan to add a modesty panel.

I'm confused.

Anyone able to help me out here?


Teams run with the stepped nose as it allows them to have a higher chassis, which allows more air to run underneath the car. That's where the benefit comes from, the actual step itself does not provide an advantage, as far as I'm aware. Indeed I would of thought the modesty panel would be aerodynamically helpful, but if it's not the downside is the extra weight - hence why some teams aren't using it.

#890 RedBaron

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:42

Thanks for the replies.

Funnily enough Autosport have just posted an article about it too.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105412

#891 Speedoholic

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:47

I'm not sure whether this a stupid question or not, but what is that device mounted on the T-cam (always used during testing)?

Posted Image

Edited by Speedoholic, 05 February 2013 - 11:49.


#892 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:07

It's an airspeed/pressure sensor. I think they run it that high to get a more accurate reading. Though you'd think you'd want accurate readings down where the car is? Though maybe it's to calibrate actual speed vs what their other sensors say.

#893 Gold

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:09

What is the earliest year (inc. video evidence) that a driver did this coming up to the grid:




I heard they didn't do it in the 80's for fear of breakage.

#894 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:43

I'm not sure whether this a stupid question or not, but what is that device mounted on the T-cam (always used during testing)?

Posted Image

Function has been answered but the term is pitot tube. If you look closely, you'll see multiple ones in various spots on race cars of all types in testing.

All planes have them too, incidentally. They are the standard way of measuring airspeed.

#895 Bleu

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 15:27

One NASCAR question has bothered me some time:

Why did Dale Earnhardt (Sr.) not drive in his own team?

Edited by Bleu, 09 February 2013 - 15:27.


#896 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 15:31

It'd only been up for a few years and he was still driving for Childress.

#897 packapoo

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:16

Trying to relate the Barcelona testing result tyre wise - reading the reports it appears the temperature were fairly typical given time of year.
It seems the teams are being unnecessarily hobbled by the rubber handed out.

My stupid question is, is it not possible to either select a venue where the temperatures are going to suit the tyres built for the test or have Pirelli provide something more appropriate?
Test shots are limited; give the teams a better crack at utilising their opportunity.

#898 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:20

They could go to South Africa or South America(and they used to) but it's really expensive and the cars spend a lot of time away from the factory, and shipping parts is difficult.

And Id rather test the tires I'm going to race in weird conditions, than a tire I'm never going to use.

#899 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 20:26

Trying to relate the Barcelona testing result tyre wise - reading the reports it appears the temperature were fairly typical given time of year.
It seems the teams are being unnecessarily hobbled by the rubber handed out.

My stupid question is, is it not possible to either select a venue where the temperatures are going to suit the tyres built for the test or have Pirelli provide something more appropriate?
Test shots are limited; give the teams a better crack at utilising their opportunity.


They have all four compounds available. There aren't additional more appropriate ones. Else, what Ross said.

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#900 CSquared

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:02

Way back when they mandated starting the race with the same fuel load you had in qualifying (not sure when that was, 2003?), people speculated that a backmarker team could qualify with two laps of fuel to be super-light and maybe even get pole. They'd refuel on the second lap, which would be a far-from-optimal race-pace strategy, but their chances of scoring points anyway were really low, so it might be worth it for a chance for some publicity and morale boost by running at or near the front for a race start. How come no one ever did that?