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S.Q.T. (stupid question thread)


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#901 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:55

Because it's stupid and too obvious, nobody would buy it (so no good for morale) and it would be a PR disaster, I guess.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 24 February 2013 - 08:55.


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#902 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:22

Way back when they mandated starting the race with the same fuel load you had in qualifying (not sure when that was, 2003?), people speculated that a backmarker team could qualify with two laps of fuel to be super-light and maybe even get pole. They'd refuel on the second lap, which would be a far-from-optimal race-pace strategy, but their chances of scoring points anyway were really low, so it might be worth it for a chance for some publicity and morale boost by running at or near the front for a race start. How come no one ever did that?


Because the FIA and Bernie have got the incentives roughly correct - where it's worth going for better finishing position and points rather than showboating. We have to give them credit for that.

#903 encircled

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:18

Way back when they mandated starting the race with the same fuel load you had in qualifying (not sure when that was, 2003?), people speculated that a backmarker team could qualify with two laps of fuel to be super-light and maybe even get pole. They'd refuel on the second lap, which would be a far-from-optimal race-pace strategy, but their chances of scoring points anyway were really low, so it might be worth it for a chance for some publicity and morale boost by running at or near the front for a race start. How come no one ever did that?

I'm not sure about this but there were rumors that Toyota during the 2005 Indy GP fueled really light to get their first pole position, but then they probably did that because they know that they are unlikely to race the day after.

#904 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:45

I've heard that one too, but why were Toyota the only ones that confident?

#905 kenkip

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:11

i have a question that has always bothered me,what do they mean by a scrubbed set of tyres?

#906 artista

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:23

i have a question that has always bothered me,what do they mean by a scrubbed set of tyres?

A used set of tyres, which they rub (scrub) and clean thoroughly so they are at the best conditions they can achieve for used tyres

Edited by artista, 24 February 2013 - 12:24.


#907 encircled

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:29

I've heard that one too, but why were Toyota the only ones that confident?

I don't know either, just making a guess.

#908 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:31

A used set of tyres, which they rub (scrub) and clean thoroughly so they are at the best conditions they can achieve for used tyres


Nope. To scrub tyres they put them on the car and run them a bit through a controlled cycle of heating and cooling (edit: and yeah, I guess they thoroughly clean them after that). The heat cycle can improve the compound cohesion and maybe internal structure (elasticity, etc.), and the friction removes the outer rubber layer, which can be slippery. http://www.f1technical.net/glossary/s

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 24 February 2013 - 12:33.


#909 artista

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:37

Nope. To scrub tyres they put them on the car and run them a bit through a controlled cycle of heating and cooling (edit: and yeah, I guess they thoroughly clean them after that). The heat cycle can improve the compound cohesion and maybe internal structure (elasticity, etc.), and the friction removes the outer rubber layer, which can be slippery. http://www.f1technical.net/glossary/s

So they rub them. Or is 'rub' only used when you use your hands?
The question is serious, I'm in my English knowledge limit there

#910 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:40

Scrubbed means 'lightly used' as in they've done a few laps. As already said once you've warmed up a tire it changes a little bit chemically, so it's a little more durable the next time you use it. It's called heat cycling.

Though they will sometimes have to brush off the top of the tire since when they are hot they pick up all sorts of crap on them. Usually the racing line is clean but coming into the pits and etc can get some junk on them. Not a lot, but you don't want any marbles or dirt on your tires when you put them on in a race pitstop.

#911 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:55

So they rub them. Or is 'rub' only used when you use your hands?
The question is serious, I'm in my English knowledge limit there


I thought about it after posting, and I'm not sure where the term "scrubbed" comes from, whether from the manual scrubbing (with a brush) after running them, or from using "scrub" as a metaphor for what happens on the car. And I'm not a native English speaker either.

What I intended to point out was that this happens on purpose, to improve the tyres (in certain conditions of track, compound, etc.). Your post sounded to me as if they did a manual scrub to try and save what they can after being forced to run the tyre (e.g. to come through a quali round).


#912 Panch

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 13:54

I think this belongs to here:




#913 Kalmake

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 15:59

Just to add more confusion, "scrub" can also mean a canceled attempt. So you can end up with scrubbed tires from a scrubbed qualifying run.

But anyway... I think it means getting rid of the shiny surface. It can be done by hand or by running the tire on track.

#914 Dolph

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 16:51

SQT: What happens to spectators injured at racing events after it turns out they survived? Who pays the hospital bills and for recovery / loss of job/wages?

#915 Skinnyguy

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 16:54

...and the friction removes the outer rubber layer, which can be slippery. http://www.f1technical.net/glossary/s


It´s curious because we´ve seen tyres totally outstanding with this outer layer intact (2004 Michelin). But we´ve seen the opposite too.

#916 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 16:58

He's talking about the sealant layer when the tire comes off the mold.

#917 midgrid

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 17:03

I've heard that one too, but why were Toyota the only ones that confident?


The tyre failures that kicked off the whole shambles occurred on Ralf Schumacher's and Ricardo Zonta's cars, both Toyotas. Perhaps the team "benefited" from some additional information from Michelin simply because none of the other teams supplied by the company sustained failures (but came close to doing so) during the weekend?

#918 Skinnyguy

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 17:05

He's talking about the sealant layer when the tire comes off the mold.


But surely that isn´t already there when the tyre gets fit for the first time in a car... and scrubbing them means giving them some running. Again English is not my first language, but this is what scrubbed tyre has always meant for me.

Scrubbed means 'lightly used' as in they've done a few laps. As already said once you've warmed up a tire it changes a little bit chemically, so it's a little more durable the next time you use it. It's called heat cycling.



#919 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 21:06

SQT: What happens to spectators injured at racing events after it turns out they survived? Who pays the hospital bills and for recovery / loss of job/wages?


Not having liability insurance would be gross negligence on the part of the organizer. What exactly it covers is usually laid down in the contract you accept when buying a ticket.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 24 February 2013 - 21:07.


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#920 Risil

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 21:56

The tyre failures that kicked off the whole shambles occurred on Ralf Schumacher's and Ricardo Zonta's cars, both Toyotas. Perhaps the team "benefited" from some additional information from Michelin simply because none of the other teams supplied by the company sustained failures (but came close to doing so) during the weekend?


Perhaps Toyota were the only ones who'd decided for definite by Saturday afternoon that the Michelins were a lost cause and they wouldn't be racing the following day.

Edited by Risil, 24 February 2013 - 21:56.


#921 ViMaMo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:24

Did any driver cause his car damage or spin himself out of the race due to their wild tire warm up routine? I know Alonso or Montoya had a spin, but they rejoined without any problems.

#922 Exar Kun

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:35

When did the wreath get phased out for the podium positions?

#923 CSquared

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:49

Did any driver cause his car damage or spin himself out of the race due to their wild tire warm up routine? I know Alonso or Montoya had a spin, but they rejoined without any problems.

Don't know if they were related to tire warm up routines, but:
Alain Prost, San Marino 1991.
Roberto Guerrero, Indy 500 1992 (from pole).

#924 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:49

When did the wreath get phased out for the podium positions?


Atlas F1 FAQs:

The traditional laurels indeed have been long gone. At some time during the 1980s it gradually disappeared. I have been looking through a few books on Formula One history and the most recent winner with laurel wreath I came across was John Watson when he won the USA-West Grand Prix at Long Beach in 1983. The reason for getting rid of this tradition? Probably money, since the wreath kept quite a few sponsors' names out of view.

http://atlasf1.autos...00/aut/faq.html

As mentioned in a previous F1 FAQ, the laurel wreath disappeared gradually during the 1980s. Meanwhile, I've seen a few more photographs and the latest I've found now would be the 1985 Italian Grand Prix, where Alain Prost was presented with the laurel wreath after winning the race.

http://atlasf1.autos...03/spn/faq.html

And it's a damn shame.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 25 February 2013 - 09:02.


#925 Youichi

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:28

Did any driver cause his car damage or spin himself out of the race due to their wild tire warm up routine? I know Alonso or Montoya had a spin, but they rejoined without any problems.


Scumacher at Monaco one year.....

#926 encircled

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:07

Did any driver cause his car damage or spin himself out of the race due to their wild tire warm up routine? I know Alonso or Montoya had a spin, but they rejoined without any problems.

1995 Italian GP

Pole-sitter David Coulthard spun off on the warm up lap, and initially retired from the race. However, when the race was stopped after a second lap collision (on dust he had dragged onto the corner when attempting to rejoin) he was able to start the race on pole again (in a spare car set up for Damon Hill).



#927 Disgrace

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:45

Well technically, that race was aborted and he retired from the actual race with a wheel bearing failure, otherwise he still would have won.

#928 Jejking

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:14

Scumacher at Monaco one year.....

What year?

#929 Disgrace

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:42

2004.

#930 Coops3

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 13:20

Stupid question: Do the visor tear-offs not stick to the tyres, or otherwise cause problems?

#931 Skinnyguy

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 14:24

Scumacher at Monaco one year.....


I think he means before the race. Most similar incident could be China 2005 by Schumacher again, he tangled with a Minardi before the race.

I remember some spins without consequences. Most have been already mentioned: Montoya in Australia 2006, Alonso in Spain 2008, Räikkönen in Malaysia 2004.

#932 tomisumi

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 14:27

Di Grassi crashed heavily in Japan 2010 while he was driving to his grid slot (even before warm-up lap)

#933 Disgrace

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 14:33

I think he means before the race. Most similar incident could be China 2005 by Schumacher again, he tangled with a Minardi before the race.

I remember some spins without consequences. Most have been already mentioned: Montoya in Australia 2006, Alonso in Spain 2008, Räikkönen in Malaysia 2004.


As well as before the start, Montoya actually managed to spin behind the safety car in the race as well, but was never caught on TV.

#934 Burtros

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 14:33

Im sure Jenson crashed behind the saftey car in Italy one year?


#935 Skinnyguy

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 14:40

Im sure Jenson crashed behind the saftey car in Italy one year?


Yep. Monza 2000 I think.

#936 Skinnyguy

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 14:43

As well as before the start, Montoya actually managed to spin behind the safety car in the race as well, but was never caught on TV.


Didn´t know about that one. :lol: Juan was SO lucky that Fisichella´s Renault failed on the grid!! I don´t know what he would have done had the race start happened when it should... drive through the parked cars? Parking it on a grid slot behind the last car?

That race has some stuff I´d pay to see, there´s no decent onboard from the all lap 1 long scrap bewteen Kimi and Juan, it was crazy aggressive stuff but TV coverage doesn´t show too much.

#937 HaydenFan

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 15:06

Stupid question: Do the visor tear-offs not stick to the tyres, or otherwise cause problems?


Theoretically they could end up anywhere. I think, unless for the perfect circumstances, the turbulence from the tires would blow the tear off away. It would be a worse case if it was sucked into the cooling inlets and blocked a radiator. But like the tire situation, I am not sure the full physics of car design, but the turbulence from the tires might keep the tear off from even getting close to the inlets.

I know on short oval circuits, most of the tear-offs get blown into the grandstands.

#938 Coops3

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 15:12

:up: Cheers.

#939 flatlander48

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:00

Don't know if they were related to tire warm up routines, but:
Alain Prost, San Marino 1991.
Roberto Guerrero, Indy 500 1992 (from pole).



Also at Indianapolis:

Tom Sneva, 1986, before the green
Scott Sharp, 2001, 1st lap, 1st turn, from pole (cold tires)

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#940 artista

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:04

I know the question was about races and testing is obviously not proper racing but another example of driver destroying his working tool before even starting to do something with it is Bianchi, last year, in Jerez, when he crashed and seriously damaged the car in his first (and last) outlap of the day.

Edited by artista, 25 February 2013 - 18:04.


#941 Shiroo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:05

Why people believe in non-equal treamtent at Lotus?

#942 midgrid

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:09

Di Grassi crashed heavily in Japan 2010 while he was driving to his grid slot (even before warm-up lap)


Schumacher and Albers collided on their laps to the grid for the 2005 Chinese Grand Prix as well.

#943 charly0418

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:12

Very noob question

Every track has something called "Speed Trap". What does that mean? Is that where the the car hits the rev limitor?

#944 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:14

It's the spot where they take a top speed reading.

#945 midgrid

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:15

Very noob question

Every track has something called "Speed Trap". What does that mean? Is that where the the car hits the rev limitor?


It's the point on each circuit at which each driver's official top speed is measured. It's usually near the end of the circuit's longest straight.

#946 ApexMouse

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 18:26

Why people believe in non-equal treamtent at Lotus?

Because this is the only thread on the Board that admits it's full of stupid.

Edited by ApexMouse, 25 February 2013 - 18:27.


#947 Risil

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 19:03

Did any driver cause his car damage or spin himself out of the race due to their wild tire warm up routine? I know Alonso or Montoya had a spin, but they rejoined without any problems.


Plenty of people have answered this one already, but I quite like this example from BTCC's Gary Ayles and Frank Sytner.

Used to happen rather a lot in CART, iirc. Something to do with mental power outputs, lots of restarts and sensitive tyres.

#948 John Player

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 19:59

Stupid question: Do the visor tear-offs not stick to the tyres, or otherwise cause problems?


Adrian Fernandez retired from a cart race at detroit because of his own visor tear-off which got in the turbo outlet during a pit-stop.

#949 Kalmake

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 20:28

Used to happen rather a lot in CART, iirc. Something to do with mental power outputs, lots of restarts and sensitive tyres.


They used to have laggy turbos.

#950 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 20:37

Not in the glory years of hilarious CART races. That was all driver.