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S.Q.T. (stupid question thread)


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#1301 Kalmake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 00:42

Point of the 107% rule is to get rid of cars that are too slow. It was never meant to penalize for a mistake in qualifying.

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#1302 BoozeBaron

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 00:48

Point of the 107% rule is to get rid of cars that are too slow. It was never meant to penalize for a mistake in qualifying.

Yesssss, and? I never said anything about mistakes during Qualy ... I asked why they don't enforce it when Marussia and HRT and Caterham don't make the cut? (and then, why the media never discuss it) - Has nothing to do with mistakes per se, other than they make sh!t cars...

#1303 Kalmake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:03

Like when? I can't remember any team being genuinely too slow except HRT and Minardi.

If they don't make the 107%, jury can still look at their times in other sessions.

#1304 BoozeBaron

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:17

Like when? I can't remember any team being genuinely too slow except HRT and Minardi.

If they don't make the 107%, jury can still look at their times in other sessions.

Marussia did not make the 107% in Oz this year, but were allowed to race, due to pace in the dry (we assume) ... Again, read my post... I call out HRT, Marrusia, and Caterham... All of which at some point or another going back to when the 107% was reintroduced, have missed the mark ... My F1 history does not go back to Minardi days, plus it was just put back into place 4 years ago... So can't comment on that... The fact that you haven't heard anything about it, just reinforces my "stupid question" regarding the medias non-coverage of it in this thread ...

Edited by BoozeBaron, 08 April 2013 - 01:18.


#1305 Kalmake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:22

Wet session is a changing condition so it would be unfair to judge ultimate pace.

Marussia/Virgin and Caterham/Lotus were within about 104% in their debut qualifying. You can click next race at the bottom of the page. I think you will find there was some sort of a good excuse every time they didn't make 107%. With HRT there were some questionable calls perhaps.

I don't know why media should take much interest.... wrong end of the grid.

#1306 Myrvold

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:40

Anyway, the 107% rule doesn't say that if you are outside you cannot race at all. It's not a rule per se, it's more of a "guide" to the stewards, that makes the decision after the qualy.

#1307 HaydenFan

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:40

The argument is that the teams put in a time during practice in which is below the 107% level from qualifying, which is fine, IMO. HRT, flat out has never been able to make that time in any session when they ran into this 107% issue.

#1308 Kalmake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:34

List of 107% rule violations

#1309 One

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:12

List of 107% rule violations


Rain fall slower the time as well...

#1310 August

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:26

Is it possible to postpone the race for Monday? I know that never happened, but looking at FIA we could be not far away from cancellation the race


Actually that was asked already twice before in March. :rolleyes:

I think we have the best answer here.

They'd start behind the SC, do 5-10 laps, red flag it, then later cancel it. Half points or whatever it would be.


But if they really can't drive on Sunday, I believe Monday would be possible, at least if there's no race the next weekend.

Edited by August, 08 April 2013 - 07:26.


#1311 wingwalker

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:45

Anyway, the 107% rule doesn't say that if you are outside you cannot race at all. It's not a rule per se, it's more of a "guide" to the stewards, that makes the decision after the qualy.



I think it is a rule, it's just about any excuse is good enough not to apply it.

#1312 BoozeBaron

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:33

I think it is a rule, it's just about any excuse is good enough not to apply it.

Wow! This is far more than I ever even recall - So 18 times since it was reimplemented, and only 4 times was in enforced (HRT - Bias is incredible) (and I'm not an apologist for HRT either - they sucked) - but think others should have also been disallowed if the pace was not there (slower cars) - Back markers always annoy me ... and teams need to up their game (hence the 'rule' I'd believe to motivate them) ...

So now back to the SQT regarding the media - Why won't the Sky's and BBC's of the world, address this during Qualifying?

http://cl.ly/image/1G1z3920211V

NB: I also think its ironic, that in the late 90's this was always enforced - yet rarely now (also add Williams, Renault, Sauber, Mercedes, McLaren, Force India, and even the chosen one, Red Bull/SV to that 107% list at some point in time) ... (again, I know the reasons/weather/stewards etc.) - Just so glad there's no politics in F1! ;)

#1313 Clatter

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:36

Yesssss, and? I never said anything about mistakes during Qualy ... I asked why they don't enforce it when Marussia and HRT and Caterham don't make the cut? (and then, why the media never discuss it) - Has nothing to do with mistakes per se, other than they make sh!t cars...


Outside of certain exceptional circumstances how often have these teams been outside of 107%?

You make it sound like it happens every race whereas I think it's a rarity.

#1314 Clatter

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:40

Wow! This is far more than I ever even recall - So 18 times since it was reimplemented, and only 4 times was in enforced (HRT - Bias is incredible) (and I'm not an apologist for HRT either - they sucked) - but think others should have also been disallowed if the pace was not there (slower cars) - Back markers always annoy me ... and teams need to up their game (hence the 'rule' I'd believe to motivate them) ...

So now back to the SQT regarding the media - Why won't the Sky's and BBC's of the world, address this during Qualifying?

http://cl.ly/image/1G1z3920211V

NB: I also think its ironic, that in the late 90's this was always enforced - yet rarely now (also add Williams, Renault, Sauber, Mercedes, McLaren, Force India, and even the chosen one, Red Bull/SV to that 107% list at some point in time) ... (again, I know the reasons/weather/stewards etc.) - Just so glad there's no politics in F1! ;)


Because there is no issue worthy of making a fuss of.

#1315 sergeym

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:59

107% rule exists not to punish any team, but to ensure all cars are fast enough to participate in race safely. That's why steward do not apply it blindly, but rather take times in practice into account.

#1316 Kalmake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:37

There can be safety benefits, but that wasn't the motive. They wanted to prevent teams from "uncompeting" with a slow pay driver and minimal development.

#1317 Afterburner

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:39

It's not a rule nor an agreement. The only reason most teams use English is because that's where the majority are based, most of their staff are probably British and it's the most widely spoken language. It's convenience, nothing else.

'Mkay, thanks. :up: The folks at Speed/NBC Sports seem to be under the impression that it's a rule, so I figured this would be the place to clear that up.

#1318 BoozeBaron

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:48

Random commentary when it was put back into effect...

"Letting them (HRT) race would have possibly caused a danger to the race leaders, and they would be nowhere near competing for points, but the benefits of this would have at least given HRT a greater chance of sorting out their car for Malaysia.

Giving them the chance to compete would give the team at least a chance of being noticed by sponsors, which would then possibly give them more finances to upgrade the car to be a little bit better."

It IS a rule... And should be enforced IMHO

#1319 Fastcake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:17

Random commentary when it was put back into effect...

"Letting them (HRT) race would have possibly caused a danger to the race leaders, and they would be nowhere near competing for points, but the benefits of this would have at least given HRT a greater chance of sorting out their car for Malaysia.

Giving them the chance to compete would give the team at least a chance of being noticed by sponsors, which would then possibly give them more finances to upgrade the car to be a little bit better."

It IS a rule... And should be enforced IMHO


It is enforced. On the two occasions where cars did not meet the 107% time and there were no mitigating circumstances such as weather or mechanical unreliablity that prevented a representive lap time from being set, the cars were not allowed to race.

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#1320 Kalmake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 13:05

Of course it's a rule:
"During Q1, any driver whose best qualifying lap exceeds 107% of the fastest time set during that session, or who fails to set a time, will not be allowed to take part in the race. Under exceptional circumstances however, which may include setting a suitable lap time in a free practice session, the stewards may permit the car to start the race. Should there be more than one driver accepted in this manner, the grid order will be determined by the stewards."

#1321 encircled

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 17:58

Watching the Moto GP race, why do the riders go closer to the pit wall when they are on the main straight? What's the purpose of doing so?

#1322 HaydenFan

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 18:27

Watching the Moto GP race, why do the riders go closer to the pit wall when they are on the main straight? What's the purpose of doing so?


Blocking? Make sure they can see their pit board? The front straight at Losail can be a place to make a move, so pulling down to take the inside line makes it difficult for riders to overtake going into turn 1.

#1323 Darren1

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 18:34

Blocking? Make sure they can see their pit board? The front straight at Losail can be a place to make a move, so pulling down to take the inside line makes it difficult for riders to overtake going into turn 1.


Depending on wind direction, if it is coming from behind the pits they will ride there to shelter from it.

#1324 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 19:07

Often it's just to let the bike naturally go where it wants on corner exit. They also go way to (riders)right on the back straight at Jerez.

#1325 encircled

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 19:40

Interesting answers there. Thanks a lot!

#1326 Sin

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:52

I'm wondering who some peoples Teammates before F1 were... like for example wondering about H├╝lkenberg & Vettel... is there any webpage where I can get just that information?

#1327 HaydenFan

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:03

Would require some serious searching as it isn't exactly what you are looking for, but has complete info on the major junior formula series that the F1 drivers have run in since the late 90's.

http://www.driverdb.com/

Edited by HaydenFan, 10 April 2013 - 12:04.


#1328 Sin

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:13

thank you very much that is of some help already :)

#1329 Head

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 13:33

1-how the hell did the stewards call maldonado for the weighbridge in brasil 2012 in the middle of q2 and obviously the track was drying out and he needs to be out there and yet they call him and if he went there his qualifying would be over ?

2-is williams the only team to use mechanical system (flywheel) to store kers rather than electrical system (batteries) ?

3-does any f1 team manufacture their own gearbox or they get it from comapnys like XTrac ?

#1330 ApexMouse

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 15:56

1-how the hell did the stewards call maldonado for the weighbridge in brasil 2012 in the middle of q2 and obviously the track was drying out and he needs to be out there and yet they call him and if he went there his qualifying would be over ?

2-is williams the only team to use mechanical system (flywheel) to store kers rather than electrical system (batteries) ?

3-does any f1 team manufacture their own gearbox or they get it from comapnys like XTrac ?


The Stewards can call any car in to be weighed at any time in any practice session I believe (friday may be an exception as the event technically starts on Saturday morning FP3. Though I agree that the timing of that call was stupid.

Williams uses the standard electric Renault/Magneti Marelli KERS system, same as lotus. The flywheel system is too heavy for F1 cars. Added to this is the safety issue of a 40,000 RPM metal disc a foot or so behind the drivers head.
The Flywheel system was given to VAG who put it in the a 911 race car, and adapted their own version for the R18 (or is the toyota that uses flywheel? Sportscar people correct me if necessary please)

All of the f1 teams will design their own gearbox, as each team uses different geometry that is wrapped in carbonfibre housing. I'm not sure if they all do their own manufacturing though The larger teams certainly will. Xtrac did the HRT boxes for them and I think Marussia too.

#1331 Head

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:00

Williams uses the standard electric Renault/Magneti Marelli KERS system, same as lotus. The flywheel system is too heavy for F1 cars. Added to this is the safety issue of a 40,000 RPM metal disc a foot or so behind the drivers head.
The Flywheel system was given to VAG who put it in the a 911 race car, and adapted their own version for the R18 (or is the toyota that uses flywheel? Sportscar people correct me if necessary please)


yes audi r18 uses the williams flywheel system


#1332 SpartanChas

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 19:25

Where does the money for tyres come from? Do Pirelli just supply them for marketing, do they relieve money from the tv rights?

#1333 Ravenak

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 19:12

Kind of a stupid question: anybody knows where to find this picture in high resolution?

Posted Image

#1334 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 19:19

Where does the money for tyres come from? Do Pirelli just supply them for marketing, do they relieve money from the tv rights?


Teams pay a small amount for them, but Pirelli also spends a ton of money buying advertising boards at every race. And since the teams all get a slice of that money...

#1335 BoozeBaron

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:17

Kind of a stupid question: anybody knows where to find this picture in high resolution?

Posted Image

Closest that I can find

(try Google Images - amp up the 'Size' search option - and only the past 24 hours) ... Should net you just China GP stuff

http://www.nw-news.d...ari_Alonso.html (click on preview PIC to get larger version)

#1336 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:42

Where does the money for tyres come from? Do Pirelli just supply them for marketing, do they relieve money from the tv rights?


See quotes in my post here: http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=6227863

#1337 Ravenak

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:16

Closest that I can find

(try Google Images - amp up the 'Size' search option - and only the past 24 hours) ... Should net you just China GP stuff

http://www.nw-news.d...ari_Alonso.html (click on preview PIC to get larger version)


Thanks for the effort but I'm really looking for that one, where he looks directly inside the camera :)

Edited by Ravenak, 15 April 2013 - 07:19.


#1338 Brother Fox

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 23:20

What happens to the # 1 if the WDC leaves the sport?
If they change teams, the new team gets it but what if they leave altogether .... like say go race sportscars for Porsche :)

Surely #2 in the WDC doesnt inherit it?

#1339 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 23:27

0 and 2. Hill was 0 in 93(Mansell left) and 94(Prost retired).

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#1340 John Player

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:40

What happens to the # 1 if the WDC leaves the sport?
If they change teams, the new team gets it but what if they leave altogether .... like say go race sportscars for Porsche :)

Surely #2 in the WDC doesnt inherit it?



:lol:

not gonna happen

#1341 Nahnever

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:46

Why did Red Bull decide to separate the rev reader from the steering wheel and put it on the dash board instead? It looks good, and it is simply a preference (I guess...). I wonder why no one else has done it that way?

Posted Image

Edited by Nahnever, 16 April 2013 - 01:54.


#1342 dave34m

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:47

Kind of a stupid question: anybody knows where to find this picture in high resolution?

Posted Image

Drag the picture into Google Images to search for it

#1343 HaydenFan

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:03

Why did Red Bull decide to separate the rev reader from the steering wheel and put it on the dash board instead? It looks good, and it is simply a preference (I guess...). I wonder why no one else has done it that way?


McLaren did so for a few years and ended in 2011. Not sure when they started though.

This is from '01:
Posted Image

#1344 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:11

It seems to be a Newey thing, because when he left McLaren for Red Bull, suddenly they switched steering wheel styles.

#1345 HaydenFan

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:45

It seems to be a Newey thing, because when he left McLaren for Red Bull, suddenly they switched steering wheel styles.


Good point. Didn't even cross my mind.

#1346 SpartanChas

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:48

Not quite, the 2009 McLaren was the first to have the LED displays back on the wheel.

#1347 Torsion

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:53

Can anyone recall when F1 dropped traction control? thnaks.

#1348 Timstr11

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:14

Can anyone recall when F1 dropped traction control? thnaks.

In 2008.

#1349 Torsion

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:19

In 2008.


Thanks.

#1350 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:24

Not quite, the 2009 McLaren was the first to have the LED displays back on the wheel.


It wasn't immediate, but they did swap. Newey joins Red Bull in 2007 and the 2008 car was the first with the display off the wheel. And then McLaren switched to a 'normal' wheel.

I'm convinced I once read it was actually a bit of IP and part of Newey going to McLaren was that he was allowed to use it there. Which honestly doesn't make sense, you can hardly patent whether you decide to glue something to the steering wheel.