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S.Q.T. (stupid question thread)


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#1601 Beamer

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 14:58

Really dumb question: Why do manufacturers put swirly paint jobs on new cars (see the new Porsche LMP1 pics for an example)?
I've always assumed it's to help hide any design innovations from the naked eye, but given the level of photographic manipulation that can be done after the photo is taken these days, it seems fairly redundant...

Or am I missing something obvious...?


Ever considered that they just think it looks good?



No it's a form of dazzle camouflage. Whether it's effective or not I can't say, but that's why they do it. And the German manufacturers seem to like that black and white complex look.


Ross is spot on. Check every car pre launch testing pics. Even jaguar and ferrari do it.


@blackhand2010 no pun intended...

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#1602 Beamer

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:01

Better than the U.S. automakers.

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Okay, a dumb one from me then...

What's the use of testing like this? Aero is gonna be off, Noice levels through the roof, fuel consumption level way up, handling must even be influenced....

Don't understand. Only reason I can see for this is to create some sort of buzz from 'spy photographs'... ?

#1603 Scotracer

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:06

Okay, a dumb one from me then...

What's the use of testing like this? Aero is gonna be off, Noice levels through the roof, fuel consumption level way up, handling must even be influenced....

Don't understand. Only reason I can see for this is to create some sort of buzz from 'spy photographs'... ?


You're driving too slow for aero to be affected. It'll be for calibration.



#1604 HaydenFan

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:07

Just to drive it around the streets without people taking actual pics. While it is a sportscar, there is a need to test the car for reliability. People won't buy a car (even if it's a sportscar) if you can't get it out of your drive way and to work without breaking down or running wrong.

As seen in that pic, you can see they also have the hypno-confusion paint scheme underneath, for when proper track and performance runs are needed.

#1605 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:15

Yeah that's not design testing, that's road testing. That's to prevent photos, and it works better than any paintjob.

I grew up in Arizona and these things were a common sight.

#1606 HaydenFan

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:17

Yeah that's not design testing, that's road testing. That's to prevent photos, and it works better than any paintjob.

I grew up in Arizona and these things were a common sight.


I live in Michigan, and while I might be on the other side of the state from Detroit, I still see the occasional car with the covers.

#1607 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:29

Thing I don't understand is, what's there to steal?

"Omg did you see the fender flare on the new Merc?"

#1608 ApexMouse

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 15:33

Erm... Guys..

That's a Corvette, right? My left eye is saying a TVR :D

Edit : says corvette in the picture, I Is Idiot. 1 Asshat.

Edited by ApexMouse, 12 June 2013 - 15:34.


#1609 Kalmake

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 18:53

Why didn't F1 hit both North America venues - Canada & USA - consecutively, a week apart or something ?

Scheduling issue or shipping the circus is cheap enough to not to worry about it?


New Jersey GP was meant to be week after Canada.

#1610 Clatter

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 19:01

That is because Pirelli have something in their contract saying they only signed to be the sole tyre supplier. They have said this themselves on many occasions. Maybe this is why Bernie or who ever is not rushing to extend Pirelli's contract for next year as they are possible negotiation with other tyre sources to maybe have more than 1.


The FIA were going down the single supplier route before Pirelli got the contract. That's the reason Michelin left. Pirelli may have something in their contract regarding it, but that's because that was how the FIA wanted it.

#1611 Clatter

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 19:04

Thing I don't understand is, what's there to steal?

"Omg did you see the fender flare on the new Merc?"


Probably don't want to lose the impact at the official unveiling.

#1612 flatlander48

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:24

No it's a form of dazzle camouflage. Whether it's effective or not I can't say, but that's why they do it. And the German manufacturers seem to like that black and white complex look.



MINI does yellow and black. And it isn't paint. It's a plastic wrap...

MINI does this all the time...

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Look under the headlight and you can see where the plastic wrap has peeled away from where it was cut away for the turn signal...

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Edited by flatlander48, 13 June 2013 - 01:33.


#1613 Brother Fox

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:34

Does it actually work though?
I'd suggest no.

#1614 Andrew Hope

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:20

I imagine it probably helps a bit.

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#1615 Beamer

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:43

Yeah that's not design testing, that's road testing. That's to prevent photos, and it works better than any paintjob.

I grew up in Arizona and these things were a common sight.


That's exactly what I don't understand... Road testing is about how the car behaves in real life right? But they just changes all the characteristics of the car with this cover.... Still don't understand.



#1616 7MGTEsup

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:55

That's exactly what I don't understand... Road testing is about how the car behaves in real life right? But they just changes all the characteristics of the car with this cover.... Still don't understand.


You will probably find that car is a transmission or engine test mule so they are not bothered about other aspects of the car.

#1617 ExFlagMan

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:10

You will probably find that car is a transmission or engine test mule so they are not bothered about other aspects of the car.

True - when I was at university 2 of my fellow students where on 'thick sandwich' courses sponsored by Vauxhall, during the summer vacations they worked at the factory and they where often given such a car for the day and told to put 300+ miles on it for relability testing.

#1618 DampMongoose

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:25

Quick one after watching British GP... I heard Di Resta receive the call to box this lap on the radio, but then travelled straight past the old pit entry (now national pits) and made me wonder if a driver has ever accidentally driven into the wrong pit entry at Silverstone when the National Pit was in use or vice-versa through force of habit etc?

It's not happened in F1 as far as I know but any ideas about other series? Anyone had to spin around and come back onto the circuit? As I imagine the alternate pit lane is blocked in such circumstances?

It's unlikely I guess, given the few meetings that use the White Elephant facilities at Silverstone, so open to any other occassions on other tracks also...

#1619 Fastcake

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:08

I really can't imagine any driver doing that, as there's no way you could forgot where the finish line was! I would love to hear if it has happened though, would be absolutely hilarious :lol:

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#1620 midgrid

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:22

There used to be a video on YouTube of Christijan Albers driving into the wrong pit-lane during free practice for the 2005 Bahrain Grand Prix, but unfortunately it has since been taken down.

#1621 ApexMouse

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 18:07

Why do Ferrari run such massive steering lock in relation to the other teams?

#1622 chdphd

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 18:54

I really can't imagine any driver doing that, as there's no way you could forgot where the finish line was! I would love to hear if it has happened though, would be absolutely hilarious :lol:

Bjorn Wirdheim :up:

#1623 Nonesuch

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 19:15

Why do Ferrari run such massive steering lock in relation to the other teams?

The following might have something to do with that, though I'm not sure. Whitmarsh commented in 2007 that Alonso: 'has a very particular driving style. He has a relatively aggressive application of steering lock ...'.

Edited by Nonesuch, 01 July 2013 - 19:15.


#1624 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 19:36

That was more of a Renault-Michelin thing though, it's much much less pronounced now than it was 2004-2006.

#1625 Bleu

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 13:38

There used to be a video on YouTube of Christijan Albers driving into the wrong pit-lane during free practice for the 2005 Bahrain Grand Prix, but unfortunately it has since been taken down.


IIRC Albers made the mistake in the left-hander (turn 9/10) and was basically forced there. Then he was surprised to find that the exit was blocked.

#1626 Atreiu

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 21:54

If F1 had its stocks floating in the market, what the hell would be happening to them now?

#1627 HaydenFan

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 00:46

If F1 had its stocks floating in the market, what the hell would be happening to them now?


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#1628 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:07

If F1 had its stocks floating in the market, what the hell would be happening to them now?


They'd be based on revenues not tire failures

#1629 HaydenFan

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:12

They'd be based on revenues not tire failures


But seen with the recent rumor of Bernanke potentially cutting government buying of bonds, the market took a little hiccup of a few hundred points, which set back any short term gains from at least a few weeks prior. This would be a similar hiccup. Would in the extreme short term cause the price to fall a good percentage.

Edited by HaydenFan, 03 July 2013 - 01:13.


#1630 Brother Fox

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:12

They'd be based on revenues not tire failures

But also future revenues, so easily rattled and reactionary investors could be getting out.
The share market can be incredibly stupid at times.



#1631 TimRTC

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:10

Heck if anything the shares should be rising, given the amount of publicity and focus F1 has received in the last week. Not too sure about Pirelli shares though...

#1632 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:45

But also future revenues, so easily rattled and reactionary investors could be getting out.
The share market can be incredibly stupid at times.


You'd keep a close eye on viewing figures as your canary in the coal mine.

#1633 Atreiu

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 15:22

You'd keep a close eye on viewing figures as your canary in the coal mine.


Stupid question follow-up, where can accurate figures be found?

#1634 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 15:29

How much money you got? :p

#1635 Atreiu

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 15:35

Not enough.

#1636 ayrtonio

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 20:45

Can't find a quick answer on the forum, but it must be there somewhere..

Why do teams swap tires from left<->right?? Do we have a real answer from a team?

#1637 SpartanChas

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 20:50

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22762318

Second section of this article from Gary Anderson.

#1638 evo

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 21:07

SQ: How much slower would a lap time be if the driver didn't adjust any settings in his car, excluding DRS? eg. brake bias, engine mapping, diff settings, etc.

#1639 dave34m

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 22:18

I was looking at Nurburgring on goggle earth today and noticed there are cars and structures around large parts of the track, right on the track edge. There appears to be something major going on as there are plenty of people at the camp sites as well but the main pits are largely empty so its probably not a racing event. The image is from June 3 2010 and I was wondering if anyone can tell me what was going on there?

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#1640 HaydenFan

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 22:37

I was looking at Nurburgring on goggle earth today and noticed there are cars and structures around large parts of the track, right on the track edge. There appears to be something major going on as there are plenty of people at the camp sites as well but the main pits are largely empty so its probably not a racing event. The image is from June 3 2010 and I was wondering if anyone can tell me what was going on there?


Think it's part of the Rock am Ring music festival. June is right for the event, and seeing the amount of cars parked, it also fits.

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That many people need somewhere to buy food and such before getting smashed with music and the what-not.

Edited by HaydenFan, 04 July 2013 - 22:38.


#1641 TC3000

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 22:47

I was looking at Nurburgring on goggle earth today and noticed there are cars and structures around large parts of the track, right on the track edge. There appears to be something major going on as there are plenty of people at the camp sites as well but the main pits are largely empty so its probably not a racing event. The image is from June 3 2010 and I was wondering if anyone can tell me what was going on there?


Rock am Ring is Germany's most popular festival event.
Now lasting four days to celebrate the 25th Anniversary, from Thursday 3rd to Sunday 6th June 2010, acts from the international live music scene appear at the Nurburgring in the Eifel mountains.



#1642 g1n

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 22:54

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22762318

Second section of this article from Gary Anderson.


Wow what a perfect and insightful explanation. I have recently asked the same question here as well and a few people simply replied: "they are symmetrical"...yeah got it, that explains it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Gary Anderson has been a gem for BBC this year, I am actually learning new things about F1 technology, unlike from this forum where people have no clue and just invent physics...anyway.

#1643 dave34m

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 23:32

Think it's part of the Rock am Ring music festival. June is right for the event, and seeing the amount of cars parked, it also fits.



That many people need somewhere to buy food and such before getting smashed with music and the what-not.

Thanks for your reply, do they use the old track as camping as well? it would be cool to be able to walk or cycle around it

#1644 manmower

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:36

I always wonder about the rich vocabulary used to describe turns in English. There are the obvious ones like hairpin, chicane, kink and such, but then there are nuances like bend, sweeper, curve, turn, corner and maybe more... I know they are not completely interchangeable (at least not all of them) since I've noticed some consensus in usage between native speakers. Can any of you explain (or link to an explanation of) the differences?

Sorry if it's been discussed before, I do try to follow the thread but I won't claim to have read and remembered all 42 pages.

#1645 Kalmake

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 16:03

I would argue that "chicane" is not obvious, or at least it's often misused. Sometimes any s-turn is called that, like The Masta Kink or The Corkscrew.

Nürburgring was built with the "Castrol-chicane" in place, while the other s-turns of the track were not called chicanes. It was then replaced by the slower "Mercedes Arena" which they don't call a chicane.

#1646 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 16:10

Corkscrew is pretty much a chicane. I don't think I've seen the Masta kink described as one.

#1647 Beamer

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 16:34

Wat would happen if kimi was the only driver wiling to race this weekend?

#1648 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 16:35

He'd win.

#1649 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 16:41

He'd win.


Nah Grosjean or Maldonado would find a way to see to that!

#1650 Andrew Hope

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 17:09

I always wonder about the rich vocabulary used to describe turns in English. There are the obvious ones like hairpin, chicane, kink and such, but then there are nuances like bend, sweeper, curve, turn, corner and maybe more... I know they are not completely interchangeable (at least not all of them) since I've noticed some consensus in usage between native speakers. Can any of you explain (or link to an explanation of) the differences?

Sorry if it's been discussed before, I do try to follow the thread but I won't claim to have read and remembered all 42 pages.


I don't think there's any real dictionary definitions, but here is what I would go with:

Turn = any change in direction of any degree
Bend = a slight left or right, but less than 90 degrees
Sweeper = same as above
Curve = same as above
Corner = a turn of roughly 90 degrees
Kink = a noticeably slighter change in direction in the middle of a straight
Esses (or "S's") = easy enough, any part of the track that roughly makes an S shape
Loop = generally used for an area of the track that can be connected and made into it's own, smaller track (such as the West and East courses at Suzuka)
Chicane = any forced change in direction that slows you down on a part of the track that would otherwise be straight (can be extra track, or hay bales/obstacles placed on the existing tarmac, like in hillclimbing)
Bus Stop chicane = chicane with specific "D" shape

Chicane is often used for any slow part of a track, which is stupid. A chicane might take the same dimensions as a regular set of corners, but it's not a chicane unless it's either extra road where the original track was straight, or an obstacle that breaks the racing line. This is the bus stop chicane at the old Spa:

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Chicanes don't need to be extra pavement, they can be obstacles that break the racing line:

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Some tracks get to a point where the chicane is the usual route, like the old Fuji did. I doubt anyone is going to call you out over the semantics so I wouldn't worry about that. The only circumstance I can think of where it's reasonable to describe a section of track as a chicane if it isn't an extra bit of road is when the original track has been destroyed and a slow set of curves built over it.

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Esses can be tricky if you don't speak English as a first language because some tracks are lazy and name corners "the esses" even when they really aren't.

A lot of those terms can be used interchangeably, it's just that it's always better to be accurate and if you have perfect words like "hairpin" or "kink" to describe a section of track, it makes sense to use them, and save bland, catch-all words like "turn" for other parts of the track that have no better adjective. When in doubt, "turn" would be the best word to go with since a track is usually said to have "9 turns" or "14 turns" on it.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 05 July 2013 - 17:14.