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S.Q.T. (stupid question thread)


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#1801 Clatter

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 20:51

On most circuits it isn't. Usually the finish line is at the pit entry, and I think Sepang is one of the few tracks where the pole is behind the finish line. At most tracks, pole is ahead of the finish line, Monza as an example. Montreal has the finish line at the pit exit and the pole right behing the finish line. That's why this question is relevant only at few tracks.


You might want to check the circuit map.


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#1802 froggy22

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 23:11

I think Sepang has separate start and finish lines and Montreal has the same start and finish line

#1803 Bleu

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:30

Difference between start and finish line on each circuit this year (metres):
Austin 323
Monza 309
Suzuka 300
Nürburgring 257
Buddh 251
Sakhir 246
Yeongam 195
Shanghai 190
Marina Bay 137
Barcelona 126
Spa 124
Yas Marina 115
Silverstone 105
Hungaroring 40
Interlagos 30

Melbourne, Sepang, Monaco, Montreal 0

Of the 2012 tracks, Valencia and Hockenheim had also 0.

Those numbers are also considered in official race distance. Silverstone circuit is 5,901 km. 52x5,901 is 306,852 km, but the official race distance is listed as 306,747 km.

Edited by Bleu, 06 August 2013 - 08:32.


#1804 DampMongoose

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:15

Difference between start and finish line on each circuit this year (metres):
Austin 323
Monza 309
Suzuka 300
Nürburgring 257
Buddh 251
Sakhir 246
Yeongam 195
Shanghai 190
Marina Bay 137
Barcelona 126
Spa 124
Yas Marina 115
Silverstone 105
Hungaroring 40
Interlagos 30

Melbourne, Sepang, Monaco, Montreal 0

Of the 2012 tracks, Valencia and Hockenheim had also 0.

Those numbers are also considered in official race distance. Silverstone circuit is 5,901 km. 52x5,901 is 306,852 km, but the official race distance is listed as 306,747 km.



Finally that's what I was on about... just points out to Ross and the others who think the finish line is almost always within a few feet of the pole position slot is a bit wide of the mark!

#1805 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:59

With the way they tend to show the finish it's easy to see why we'd make that assumption.

Still doesn't solve the issue of first lap timing.

#1806 DampMongoose

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:41

With the way they tend to show the finish it's easy to see why we'd make that assumption.

Still doesn't solve the issue of first lap timing.


The first lap time doesn't mean anything from a technical point of view, the cars at the front of the grid travel less distance to the timing line/finish than those at the back from the point the lights go out, but so what? From lap 2 onwards it's all equal, what point in timing a standing start when everyone has a different distance to cover? It only applies to the total race time from lights to flag...which the winner has to be the first driver over the line that has covered the required number of laps, you can probably cover more distance if you started last and finshed a close 2nd but that doesn't matter to the result.

#1807 Kalmake

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 17:37

Distance covered in the regs is counted in laps, not meters.

You can cut corners and still cover the race distance. Using the pitlane also changes the "track distance" covered. If you want to count it like that, I'm sure there is has been quite a few times the winner has covered less distance per race time than someone behind.

#1808 Markn93

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:35

Does development really ever stop over the summer break and when can they 'officially' re-open the factories?


#1809 DampMongoose

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:56

Does development really ever stop over the summer break and when can they 'officially' re-open the factories?


Unless there are switches on Adrian Newey's bonce that turn his brain off I doubt it!

#1810 Coops3

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:45

What are we calling the pit entry? Because I can't think of tracks where the pit entry is even with the finish line. The finish line is almost always about where the pole position slot is, give or take a few feet.


Are you sure? I think the start line is usually within a few feet of pole, and the finish line is usually near the back of the grid.

EDIT: Just read on, thanks Bleu :up:

Edited by Coops3, 07 August 2013 - 11:47.


#1811 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 14:01

Does development really ever stop over the summer break and when can they 'officially' re-open the factories?

In terms of factory - yes. But to be honest, FIA doesn't monitor the shutdown that strictly, it's rather an agreement. The most important thing is that people just need a break from the 365 days a year life in F1. Teams are only allowed to maintain their equipment including wind tunnels which is done by external companies.

The designers are getting paid quite good to afford any brain rest.

Edited by kvarbanov, 07 August 2013 - 14:07.


#1812 nordschleife

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:12

Enstone - the team known as Lotus - don't get a historical bonus from the FIA revenues, do they? That would be crazy. And how would any of us know since the answer is only in the Concorde agreement? Just wanted to dispel the remote possibility. That's what this thread's for, right?

#1813 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:24

They don't get a Ferrari-style bonus, no. And one of the issues of the new version of the Concorde is that some teams get extra money for their championship legacy. So Red Bull gets more money for being recent champions, but Enstone F1 doesn't get anything despite having a roughly equal record over a longer period.

#1814 SpartanChas

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 13:51

What do F1 cars smell like? I remember being told that its something thats added to the fuel.

#1815 InvertedLift

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:48

What do F1 cars smell like? I remember being told that its something thats added to the fuel.

It's hard to explain, but they certainly don't smell like regular burnt mogas, avgas or avtur. Not sure exactly what else the fuel would be but it does smell different.

#1816 DampMongoose

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:54

I've not smelt a modern F1 car but the cars of the mid 90's and prior to that had the overwhelming smell of Castrol!

#1817 InvertedLift

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 14:52

I've not smelt a modern F1 car but the cars of the mid 90's and prior to that had the overwhelming smell of Castrol!

That's not a bad description. The last F1 cars I smelt were the 2012 cars. They smelt more like my 2 stroke 50cc minibike than any other car.

Edited by InvertedLift, 09 August 2013 - 14:52.


#1818 F1ultimate

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:24

What do F1 cars smell like? I remember being told that its something thats added to the fuel.


I was at Silverstone this year and the F1 car smelt like something between a gokart and a commercial jet.

#1819 SpartanChas

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:44

I was there too, love that smell. I need it in my life on a regular (+ cheaper) basis.

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#1820 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:48

Between gokart and commercial plane is a broad spectrum.

#1821 Clatter

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 18:41

Between gokart and commercial plane is a broad spectrum.


True. The smell is much closer to avgas than petrol.


#1822 CSquared

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:05

I remember the smells at Phoenix 1991 being very strange, unlike anything I'd smelled before around a car. This was during the fuel wars when they were burning crazy stuff like toluene, iirc.

#1823 ExFlagMan

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:27

I remember the smells at Phoenix 1991 being very strange, unlike anything I'd smelled before around a car. This was during the fuel wars when they were burning crazy stuff like toluene, iirc.

It was even worse a few years earlier during the turbo era - not sure what was in some of the fuels in those days but when flagging about 1-2m from the track side it felt pretty toxic - I think toluene was probably one of the more benign substances in some of those mixes :eek: - partial burnt fuel droplets ate holes in my overalls one year.

#1824 SylvesterDiResta

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 13:11

Before the pre season tests at the start of the year (at Jerez etc) are teams allowed to do straight line tests?

#1825 HaydenFan

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 13:57

Before the pre season tests at the start of the year (at Jerez etc) are teams allowed to do straight line tests?


Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 February of the current year and the start of the last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four hours of wind-on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single twenty four hour period.


http://www.formula1....s/8713/fia.html

#1826 Tiakumosan

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 13:59

I remember on pre testing-ban days, Ferrari would run their cars on their track whenever they feel like. How about the other teams? Each one run on a track, or did they rent a track and run? And how often did these tests happen?

#1827 HaydenFan

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 14:22

I remember on pre testing-ban days, Ferrari would run their cars on their track whenever they feel like. How about the other teams? Each one run on a track, or did they rent a track and run? And how often did these tests happen?


Well, in Ferrari's backyard they had their own test track. Made things easier to load up a truck and drive the car a few meters, or simply drive the car out of the factory than driving a couple hundred miles or so to Silverstone or much further to Catalunya, Jerez, Monza.

Here is a list from 2005 of dates and results

http://www.gpupdate....-test-calendar/

Up to Monaco-ish, it was a weekly deal, then became more bi-weekly as the schedule continued into the season.

#1828 SylvesterDiResta

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 16:42

Ah, thank you!

#1829 Risil

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 17:45

Here is a list from 2005 of dates and results


Lot of good it did them

#1830 Tiakumosan

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 20:30

Well, in Ferrari's backyard they had their own test track. Made things easier to load up a truck and drive the car a few meters, or simply drive the car out of the factory than driving a couple hundred miles or so to Silverstone or much further to Catalunya, Jerez, Monza.

Here is a list from 2005 of dates and results

http://www.gpupdate....-test-calendar/

Up to Monaco-ish, it was a weekly deal, then became more bi-weekly as the schedule continued into the season.


:up: :up:

#1831 F1ultimate

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 21:39

My lord that's a lot of testing. :eek: :eek:

No wonder it was banned.

#1832 scheivlak

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 22:09

I remember on pre testing-ban days, Ferrari would run their cars on their track whenever they feel like. How about the other teams? Each one run on a track, or did they rent a track and run? And how often did these tests happen?

In 2004 Luca Badoer (remember him?) had no less than 83 test days, and in 2005 he had 79. Another Ferrari driver, Marc Gene was the next busiest man in 2005 with 47 test days. Gene was the busiest man in 2003 with 75 test days ahead of Badoer with 49, Montoya (Williams) with 47 and Webber (Jaguar) 46.

In 2006 McLaren's Pedro de la Rosa was the busiest test driver with 54 days, ahead of e.g. Heikki Kovalainen (Renault) 47 and Michael Schumacher 45 days.

Together the teams drove more than 300.000 kms just in testing each year in that era, and even 411.012 kms in 2006 http://www.forix.com...pt.php?l=0&d=90

#1833 kenkip

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 17:03

Where is the drinks bottle ffor the drivers located?And how is it connected?

#1834 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 17:25

It's a little pouch, like a Capri Sun. It's connected to a tube that has a tiny pump and the driver presses a button that gives him a little sip. The hose runs into the base of his helmet.

I think they're mounted in the cockpit, on the inside-roof of it. Before you would get to the pedals?

#1835 kenkip

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 17:37

It's a little pouch, like a Capri Sun. It's connected to a tube that has a tiny pump and the driver presses a button that gives him a little sip. The hose runs into the base of his helmet.

I think they're mounted in the cockpit, on the inside-roof of it. Before you would get to the pedals?

Thanks.Is there a limit on amount of liquid to be carried?

#1836 SpartanChas

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 17:47

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's only one liter to save weight. I'm wondering why the teams don't just agree to give every driver a bit more because obviously that's nothing in a 50 degree cockpit.

#1837 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 17:49

I think space is the issue more than weight. Because a decent amount is going to evaporate from sweat.

#1838 DampMongoose

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:51

Read an article by an F1 insider (Scarbs I think) that said they only carry 1.5 litres of fluid because all they need is the same amount to replace the lost fluids. They also only use a road car windscreen washer pump to power the drink button on the wheel as Ross said...

What sounded unpleasant was that the drink is actually closer to the salty stuff you re-hydrate yourself with when you've had a bad stomach! Mmmmm refreshing!

#1839 Meanie

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:17

Read an article by an F1 insider (Scarbs I think) that said they only carry 1.5 litres of fluid because all they need is the same amount to replace the lost fluids. They also only use a road car windscreen washer pump to power the drink button on the wheel as Ross said...

What sounded unpleasant was that the drink is actually closer to the salty stuff you re-hydrate yourself with when you've had a bad stomach! Mmmmm refreshing!


It might be somewhat hard to believe it but when you're really thirsty mate, trust me... it sure is refreshing and delicious to boot!
The human body works in pretty strange ways.

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#1840 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:32

Yeah I used to use Dioralyte in my water bottle when I did heavy cardio/cycling.

#1841 Zoetrope

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:16

Q: Do the teams really stop working during summer break? Is there any way for outside parties to control it?

#1842 muramasa

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:21

Q: Do the teams really stop working during summer break? Is there any way for outside parties to control it?

electric bill :p


#1843 F1ultimate

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 19:00

Q: Do the teams really stop working during summer break? Is there any way for outside parties to control it?


There is now way to control it. The factories might close but that doesn't mean that engineers might not have access to cloud based computer power that is not hosted in the factories. It is rumoured that Alonso has a very advanced simulator in his home.

#1844 eronrules

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:42

There is now way to control it. The factories might close but that doesn't mean that engineers might not have access to cloud based computer power that is not hosted in the factories. It is rumoured that Alonso has a very advanced simulator in his home.

iRacing ??? or perhaps rFactor :smoking:

#1845 F1ultimate

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:15

iRacing ??? or perhaps rFactor :smoking:


More like proprietary. Here is a clip of Alonso's simulator.



#1846 ApexMouse

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:04

It runs on ISI's Rfactor Pro, which is a different coded version of the GM2 engine. The sims at the factory used to run on these.

The proper sims at the factories now are all In house bespoke jobs, with the exception of Red Bull's I believe, which is still on ISI stuff. Thats for the top teams anyways, looking at the new teams undestanding of car physics their probably using codemasters F1 2012...

#1847 g1n

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 12:08

iRacing ??? or perhaps rFactor :smoking:


They all had rFactor in the past, these days probably iRacing and some still with rFactor software.

#1848 Atreiu

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 19:56

After reading through http://www.newyorker...complexity.html I wondered, is it possible to assess how many hours a racer like Vettel has spent in race cars + simulators?

 

Because the rest, going through data, meetings, etc, should be damn right impossible.



#1849 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 20:51

Very very few pilots have 10,000 hours of seat time. I doubt any racing driver in history has. Though with simulators they'll get a lot closer because they can do 8 hour days during the week now, whereas before if you do 120 laps of testing that's only like 3 hours. 



#1850 Kalmake

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 05:31

As stated in the article, trying to apply the 10000h rule to other fields is problematic at best. In chess there is basically no physical limit on how much you can study and practice. The number is going to be much lower for motor sports.

 

Drivers who make it to F1 have reached the equivalent of chess master level in their karting days. How many hours of seat time do they get in 10-15 years of karting?

 

Imaginary training is very important in sports where you are limited on how much you can practice in the flesh. How many hours is that?

 

I would guess the kids these days use simulators. It counts for something even if they don't have better than iRacing. In theory you could sim all day every day, but at some point there would be diminishing returns on how applicable it is on track?