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S.Q.T. (stupid question thread)


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#2801 Kristian

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 20:15

Quick stupid question - how is track length measured? Is it by centreline or by racing line? Or inside/outside limits? I guess its the centreline? 



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#2802 HaydenFan

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 20:19

A good question. Didn't know myself and never bothered to look until you brought it up. 

 

 

 

The FIA, which sanctions Formula 1, WRC, and numerous other cham­pi­on­ships and motorsports records, says the center line of the track is used for the official track length. This is determined by measuring the distances around the inside and outside edges of the track and averaging the results. This distance differs from the racing line, so the actual distance a car travels in a race might differ slightly from the circuit’s posted length, and the average speed based on lap time will differ from the average in-car speed.

 

http://www.caranddri...isited-car-news

 

So the 231 mph pole speed isn't exactly what the car did? So what was the average speed of the car then? 



#2803 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:02

I think there were differences between how CART and IRL calculated track length at the same locations. To the point where some track records aren't...



#2804 Amphicar

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:18

Stupid question; has there ever been a colourblind F1 driver, and if yes or no; would it be possible to drive F1 while colourblind? Yellow/green flag could be difficult to distinguish. 

Not F1 but movie star Paul Newman, who finished second in the 1979 Le Mans 24 Hours was colour blind.



#2805 DampMongoose

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:25

I think both Webber and Martin Brundle have said if you need to pee, well you just accept you'll be sitting in a wet firesuit for a bit.

Neil


Plenty of articles about Nelson Piquet who even pissed in the car when he was in the garage.

#2806 E.B.

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:28

Knowing Nelson, I presume you mean he pissed in Nigel's car?

#2807 Kristian

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:50

A good question. Didn't know myself and never bothered to look until you brought it up. 

 

 

http://www.caranddri...isited-car-news

 

So the 231 mph pole speed isn't exactly what the car did? So what was the average speed of the car then? 

 

Thanks for the answer!

 

And yes, that's why I was wondering. 



#2808 CoolBreeze

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 04:16

Silly question, but can someone explain Audi's laser lights at Le Mans? I saw red, then white, and then green at the finish...



#2809 Andrew Hope

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 06:23

Knowing Nelson, I presume you mean he pissed in Nigel's car?

 

That's some caveman shit right there. Marking your territory.



#2810 Dipster

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 06:23

It'd pay for a strong midfield team. Somewhere between Force India and Williams, but nowhere near the big big teams.

 

It'd pay for an F1 engine program though.

 

And they're spending waaaaaay more than the likes of Toyota. And I can't see where the value comes from. I mean not enough to justify that much money.

And based on yesterday's mainstream news coverage of Le Mans - including in France - hardly worth the bother....... But that might be due to some football event somewhere else.



#2811 HaydenFan

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:34

And based on yesterday's mainstream news coverage of Le Mans - including in France - hardly worth the bother....... But that might be due to some football event somewhere else.

 

I think Le Mans fits Audi better. The company has most of it's success in touring car and rally before it's Le Mans Prototype run. That company as a whole really. 

 

A question: Was in anything considered mainstream (even the sporting magazines), was Le Mans really ever a big thing? In sporting terms, was Le Mans ever a big deal? 



#2812 E.B.

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 13:58

That's some caveman shit right there. Marking your territory.


And I'm genuinely not even sure if I was joking or not.

#2813 flatlander48

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 17:34

I think Le Mans fits Audi better. The company has most of it's success in touring car and rally before it's Le Mans Prototype run. That company as a whole really. 
 
A question: Was in anything considered mainstream (even the sporting magazines), was Le Mans really ever a big thing? In sporting terms, was Le Mans ever a big deal?


Yes, it was ALWAYS a big deal and still is. Jaguar sold a lot of cars in the 50's and 60's based on their wins in the 50's, for example. In more recent times it makes a statement about the technologies employed (diesels and hybrids of various arrangements) and the engineering prowess of the companies involved.

#2814 August

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 20:07

Yes, it was ALWAYS a big deal and still is. Jaguar sold a lot of cars in the 50's and 60's based on their wins in the 50's, for example. In more recent times it makes a statement about the technologies employed (diesels and hybrids of various arrangements) and the engineering prowess of the companies involved.

 

In some ways I feel success at Le Mans would attract sports car buyers, maybe even more than F1. That's why Toyota's presence at Le Mans feels strange to me, they are more of a family car brand.



#2815 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 20:17

I've seen many Toyota/Peugeot/Audi/Porsche ads in papers like The Times over the years. The only time there are F1 stuff was when a McLaren won and Santander ran an ad.



#2816 flatlander48

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 21:03

In some ways I feel success at Le Mans would attract sports car buyers, maybe even more than F1. That's why Toyota's presence at Le Mans feels strange to me, they are more of a family car brand.


Remember that Toyota was in F-1 for several years... They have a big presence in NASCAR, USAC and Off Road also. They built Group 7 cars that could have raced in the Can-Am but they abandoned the program. They've been around...

#2817 scheivlak

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:07

 

 

A question: Was in anything considered mainstream (even the sporting magazines), was Le Mans really ever a big thing? In sporting terms, was Le Mans ever a big deal? 

It was absolutely, and especially in the mid 60s. I somehow remember some serious advertising by Ford in Dutch national newspapers when they won in 1966 -and that was in the Netherlands, a country at that moment with no real direct connection to the event. As I remember, the Le Mans 24h was certainly more important in the sixties than individual F1 GPs and about as important as the F1 WDC in itself. It was the main event of the year - at this side of the ocean of course.

 

The importance of Le Mans more or less collapsed after 1971 when regulation changes resulted in both Porsche and Ferrari not entering for the 1972 race.

In my memory Le Mans got quite some kind of a renaissance in importance in the later eighties/early nineties -just look at the 90/91 entries: Jaguar, Porsche, Mercedes, Peugeot, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda- but, as the story goes, FIA more or less stifled that in favour of F1.



#2818 August

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:27

Remember that Toyota was in F-1 for several years... They have a big presence in NASCAR, USAC and Off Road also. They built Group 7 cars that could have raced in the Can-Am but they abandoned the program. They've been around...

 

My point was only that they're a different brand compared to Audi or Porsche, and I'm not sure their target customers follow Le Mans so much. Of course, they have history in racing but F1 and NASCAR are more of motorsports for masses who are wondering which brand of a family car to buy. Le Mans followers are more of racing enthusiasts dreaming of a sports car.



#2819 onewingedangel

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 23:17

Silly question, but can someone explain Audi's laser lights at Le Mans? I saw red, then white, and then green at the finish...

 

The Audi's feature both Laser and LED light sources. The teams cars employ different colours on the outer ring of LEDs to make them more identifiable head on coming into the pits.



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#2820 flatlander48

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 23:38

My point was only that they're a different brand compared to Audi or Porsche, and I'm not sure their target customers follow Le Mans so much. Of course, they have history in racing but F1 and NASCAR are more of motorsports for masses who are wondering which brand of a family car to buy. Le Mans followers are more of racing enthusiasts dreaming of a sports car.


Toyota has always been big on their engineering capabilities. This parallels Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, etc. NASCAR doesn't offer a way to directly show that as the general perception is pretty low tech (not the reality, however). Same goes for USAC and Off Road. Indy Car is a spec series, and there's already 2 entrenched competitors. Evidently they are not ready to spend F-1 type money, so that leaves Le Mans and the WEC.

#2821 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 00:19

A Toyota win would be a big thing though, slaying Audi and Porsche.

 

And just in general, how about the fact that there's a 1000hp four-wheel drive Toyota prototype? That's a decent draw. And they're using it to push the Toyota Hybrid line, of which I just noticed an ad for this weekend. I think it was a Yaris or something, but the graphic was the same as the Le Mans car.



#2822 flatlander48

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:30

Their hybrid is the Prius. One almost sneaked up on me in our parking garage at work the other day. If you fart you make more noise than those things do sometimes...

#2823 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:14

Their hybrid line is more than the Prius.



#2824 HaydenFan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:23

But Toyota has had a hybrid program in their production engineering side since at least 1997 (when they introduced the Prius). What does racing a system that has been, I assume, pretty much peaked it's engineering efficiency help? I again would assume most know the capabilities of a hybrid system (as most best selling cars by the automakers have a hybrid option), so no marketing ploys. 

 

Like Ross said about how they are pushing their hybrid line. But don't most consumers already know what the hybrid car is? And from my experience with Toyota, the dealer quickly mentioned he had a few hybrid Camry's on the lot (trying to find a non-German sport sedan that is better than the Fusion I am leaning towards. Camry's not it.). The dealers are pushing them. I understand the point of advertising, but don't understand why the need to push cars that don't need advertising. Like why we don't see ads for Ferrari. Or Tesla (off-topic, passed a Model S on the highway today. Pretty sure I ran someone off the road in the next few miles staring at it in my mirror). 

 

Maybe this is just a tactical move by the top prototype teams? Get a few extra laps in hopes of shedding a fuel stop, which is well, good for racing. They can say all the advertising, helping the environment, green this-green that, but at the end of the day they can build a 1000bhp car that can potentially get a few extra laps that it's opponent. Making it a sprint race pace with the fuel savings that would usually come with racing in a 24 hour race.  


Edited by HaydenFan, 17 June 2014 - 02:27.


#2825 flatlander48

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:46

Their hybrid line is more than the Prius.


Perhaps I should have stated that it is the only small car with a hybrid drivetrain. There is at least a Camry model and a Highlander model.

#2826 flatlander48

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:54

But Toyota has had a hybrid program in their production engineering side since at least 1997 (when they introduced the Prius). What does racing a system that has been, I assume, pretty much peaked it's engineering efficiency help? I again would assume most know the capabilities of a hybrid system (as most best selling cars by the automakers have a hybrid option), so no marketing ploys.

No, I would think that it continues to evolve. Battery technology improved. Advances in microprocessor speed and capability allow for more sophisticated control algorithms. NOTHING stays the same...

Like Ross said about how they are pushing their hybrid line. But don't most consumers already know what the hybrid car is? And from my experience with Toyota, the dealer quickly mentioned he had a few hybrid Camry's on the lot (trying to find a non-German sport sedan that is better than the Fusion I am leaning towards. Camry's not it.). The dealers are pushing them. I understand the point of advertising, but don't understand why the need to push cars that don't need advertising. Like why we don't see ads for Ferrari. Or Tesla (off-topic, passed a Model S on the highway today. Pretty sure I ran someone off the road in the next few miles staring at it in my mirror).

Beyond knowing what it is, they want to demonstrate the superiority of their particular technology and make the linkage between the race car and the street car. The message is: "If we can do this (be successful at Le Mans), imagine what we can do for you!".

By the way, have you checked out the Maxima SE?

Oops, it is now the SV...

Edited by flatlander48, 17 June 2014 - 02:56.


#2827 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:53

Perhaps I should have stated that it is the only small car with a hybrid drivetrain. There is at least a Camry model and a Highlander model.

 

Just re-checked the paper, it was the Auris.



#2828 Dipster

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:05

Their hybrid is the Prius. One almost sneaked up on me in our parking garage at work the other day. If you fart you make more noise than those things do sometimes...

I tried to drive one a couple of years ago. Unsuccessfully....  Neither I or a colleague (and we are both into cars) could get the handbrake off! We dragged its rear around the car park until we bored of this and took a cab. I felt quite stupid but have heard others have also fallen foul of such cunning Japanese ways.



#2829 flatlander48

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 17:47

We don't get the Auris in the US in any form. The gas hierarchy is Yaris-Corolla-Camry. The hybrid hierarchy is Prius-Camry-Avalon.

#2830 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 18:09

Toyota Le Mans is mainly a Toyota Europe thingy. And the ads in UK papers would be too, obviously. 



#2831 4MEN

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 19:58

I rather ask here than google: why some LMP cars have 2 seats when they only need 1?



#2832 Option1

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 20:05

I think they all have 2 seats, even if the 2nd seat is rudimentary.  The philosophy (and the resulting rules, I think) being that this is sportscar racing, derived from the original road-going sportscar racing, and therefore the cars should be capable of carrying a passenger. 

 

Besides, if they didn't have the 2nd seat then they'd be a formula car, and that'd just be wrong. ;)

Neil



#2833 flatlander48

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 21:15

There also used to be the requirement of the "FIA Suitcase". The Suitcase was a volume of specific length, width and depth. In order for a car to be legal, it had to have an empty space that would accommodate that volume. The teams would build a sheet metal structure of those dimensions and mount it in the car in some out of the way place. It would remain empty. Can't remember when they removed that requirement, but it has been some time.

#2834 Exb

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 21:51

I've finally thought of a stupid question (which is not too stupid to ask, I have lots of those) which occurred to me whilst trying to work out where the McLaren garages will be located along the pitlane.

 

I've always believed the world champion team choose which garage they want, and then the other teams follow on in championship order (except at Silverstone - actually stupid question number 2, why is Silverstone different?) anyway back to stupid question number 1 - Does the championship team get to choose the garage, and if so then why don't they choose the final slot? Surely this spot is better from the point of view of guaranteeing a safer pitstop in the regards that they are less likely to be held up by other cars pitting. (eg if they come in 1st and have a normal pitstop they will leave 1st as all the other cars that were behind them will stop further up the pitlane so not be in their way - if they are in the 1st garage there is a greater chance of having to be held to wait for traffic coming past, allowing the possibility of other cars jumping them. What am I missing :confused: (I'm sure it will be something obvious)


Edited by Exb, 18 June 2014 - 01:21.


#2835 ali.unal

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 21:56

As far as I know, first garages are bigger than those at the far end.

#2836 Brother Fox

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:53

Easier access into the first pit too.
You don't need to do that sharp jink once you pass the one before you.

Re sportscars - how do they decide which side the wheel is on (steering smart arses)?
Am I right in thinking Audi was on the right?

#2837 flatlander48

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:39

Most circuits in Europe are clockwise. The driver would usually be on the right.

#2838 rjtart

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 04:58

Why are the steering wheels in NASCAR racers so close to the driver?



#2839 RacingDuck

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 05:49

Why are the steering wheels in NASCAR racers so close to the driver?


More control would be my guess, or a saftey feature.

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#2840 Brother Fox

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:00

Good question, I've wondered that too.

Surely it gives less control holding it so close

#2841 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:16

Why are the steering wheels in NASCAR racers so close to the driver?

 

Marcos Ambrose made a comment shortly after heading to NASCAR that it was very hard to get used to.

Ergonomically it makes no sense to me but I'm sure they have their reasons.



#2842 Dipster

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:38

Good question, I've wondered that too.

Surely it gives less control holding it so close

Surely it is easier to apply muscle power to the wheel in such  a position, no? But I thought the cars had power steering, so unnecessary.



#2843 Brother Fox

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:44

Unless it's a fatigue thing? Outstretched arms would fatigue quicker I would think.

#2844 HaydenFan

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:48

More control would be my guess, or a saftey feature.

 

Well, many drivers still use a large wheel. It is a bit of leverage. There is power steering, but like F1, it does not just make it like your street car. 

 

Bit of an older pic, but to illustrate this to some who have no idea how close it is. 

 

254448_10150218196647129_105630772128_70


Edited by HaydenFan, 18 June 2014 - 12:51.


#2845 RonnyRonny

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:56

Even F1 wheels weren't that close back in the day.

Maybe they use their forearm a bit to hold the wheel whilst they turn for an extended period of time?

#2846 Brother Fox

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 13:44

Camry drivers. That explains it.



#2847 Option1

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 13:48

They do use the forearm at times, some drivers more than others, but yeh my understanding is that it's basically the wheels are so close so they can get some muscle into it.  I suspect there's also a second reason - tradition.

 

Neil



#2848 Dipster

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 14:21

Camry drivers. That explains it.

Perhaps the team's builders were hoping to attract the smaller Japanese drivers.....................



#2849 flatlander48

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 22:54

Although they have steering dampers, I would think that it only takes care of the real back kickback. You need the leverage to counteract it over three+ hours.

#2850 DampMongoose

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:01

There also used to be the requirement of the "FIA Suitcase". The Suitcase was a volume of specific length, width and depth. In order for a car to be legal, it had to have an empty space that would accommodate that volume. The teams would build a sheet metal structure of those dimensions and mount it in the car in some out of the way place. It would remain empty. Can't remember when they removed that requirement, but it has been some time.

 

I remember that, the FIA said that if the cars were meant to be road based and therefore, usable by the public they must be able to carry a suitcase.  The Toyota's in '98 and '99 that said their 'suitcase' was housed inside the fuel tank, which would be large enough to carry the suitcase when the tank was empty for scrutineering.

 

On the previous topic about sportscars being 2 seater, that must have had some changes over the past few decades because I can remember the Welter Racing cars being on the front row in the mid 90's having only an opening in the centre for the driver, like a covered single seater.  It had one piece bodywork that was subsequently banned after Enjolras was killed.