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Your thoughts on the greatest starting grid for an actual F1 Grand Prix


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#1 Joe Fan

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Posted 01 September 2000 - 23:21

Here is an interesting challenge. What Grand Prix do you think had the greatest overall driver talent?

Unfortunately, Jim Clark and Juan Manuel Fangio's F1 careers never overlapped or else that would have provided some potential candidates.

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#2 Keir

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Posted 01 September 2000 - 23:37

How about the 1972 US GP at Watkins Glen?
Amon, Stewart, Cervert, Hulme, Revson, Peterson, Fittipaldi, Lauda, Reggazoni, Reuteman, Scheckter, Stuck,
Ickx, Bell, Hill, Surtees, Beltoise, Pescarolo.
I'm doing this from the very top of my head, but there countless numbers of wins at both the GP and Sportscar level, Tasman Cup, F2, F3, Can Am, Indy, touring cars.

This one should be interesting!!!

#3 Marcor

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Posted 02 September 2000 - 00:25

Here's a prestigious grid: Monaco 75
Lauda
Pryce
Jarier
Peterson *
Brambilla
Regazzoni *
Scheckter
Pace
Fittipaldi E
Reutemann *
Hunt
Andretti
Ickx *
Donohue
Depailler
Mass
Watson *
Jones

an other, Monaco again, but 1967
Brabham
Bandini
Surtees
Hulme
Clark
Stewart
Gurney *
Hill G
Siffert
Mc Laren *
Servoz-Gavin
Spence
Courage
Amon
Rindt
Rodriguez P

* ==> (WCD podium), Bold ==> WC of course

#4 Leif Snellman

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Posted 02 September 2000 - 11:05

How about Austria 1978:

Peterson *
Andretti *
Jabouille *
Reutemann *
Laffite *
Fittipaldi *
Scheckter *
Hunt *
Pironi *
Watson *
Villeneuve *
Lauda *
Depailler *
Tambay *
Jones *
Patrese *
Lunger
Rebacque
Daly
Piquet *
Brambilla *
Regazzoni *
Stuck
Ertl
Rosberg *
Arnoux *

* GP winners

#5 Dave Ware

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Posted 06 September 2000 - 00:57

I would vote for any grid that included Clark, Stewart, Brabham, Hill, Amon, Rindt, Surtees...and many such grids also included McLaren, Hulme, Gurney. I think any such grids prior to April 1968 contained the most actual driving talent.

Dave

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 September 2000 - 01:33

Dave, I really think you have encapsulated my thoughts on that subject.
Locally, there were some good grids in 1965, Warwick Farm, Sandown and Longford all featuring Phil Hill, Bruce McLaren, Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Frank Gardner and Frank Matich. Leo Geoghegan wasn't at Longford, but at the others.
1966 saw G. Hill, Clark, Stewart, Gardner, Greg Cusack, Geoghegan, Kevin Bartlett and John Harvey, not a bad sum.
Those Tasman series were great things, with other years bringing other names like Pedro Rodriguez, Chris Amon, Jochen Rindt, Derek Bell and Piers Courage here for us to enjoy.

#7 Marcor

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Posted 06 September 2000 - 02:18

Dave,

Monaco 1967 must be your choice !!
Alas this GP was tragic...

Monaco gave often prestigious lists as there were a limited number of places on the grid.

So 1962 was also interesting:
Clark
Hill G
Mc Laren
Mairesse
Gurney
Brabham
Trintignant
Ireland
Hill P
Bandini
Surtees
Salvadori
Ginther
Taylor T
Bonnier
Maggs

#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 September 2000 - 02:26

The inclusion of Bandini obviously affects your choice here, are there others who were out before Clark's demise?

#9 Marcel Schot

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Posted 06 September 2000 - 13:12

In the category freakin' out on Forix :)

Highest number of champions (past) to compete in 1 season : 5 (1970 (Stewart, G.Hill, Hulme, Brabham, Surtees))

Highest number of championships (past) to compete in 1 season : 8 (1968,1970,1991)

Highest number of champions (past, present) to compete in 1 season : 6 (1970 (Stewart, Rindt, G.Hill, Hulme, Brabham, Surtees))

Highest number of championships (past, present) to compete in 1 season : 9 (1968,1970,1991)

Highest number of champions (past, present, future) to compete in 1 season : 8 (1966,1968,1970,1972,1978,1979,1980)

Highest number of championships (past, present, future) to compete in 1 season : 16 (1985 (4 Prost, 3 Senna, 3 Piquet, 3 Lauda, 1 Mansell, 1 Rosberg, 1 Jones))

In 2 races 16 career world championships were present on the grid:
Italy 1985:
1 Senna
2 Rosberg
3 Mansell
4 Piquet
5 Prost
16 Lauda
25 Jones

Australia 1985:
1 Senna
2 Mansell
3 Rosberg
4 Prost
9 Piquet
16 Lauda
19 Jones


#10 Marcel Schot

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Posted 06 September 2000 - 13:45

Just noticed : in 1959 no former WCs were present on the grid. Fangio quit during 1958, Hawthorn was killed and Ascari and Farina were already out of the picture for a long time.

#11 Marcel Schot

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 10:19

Sorry to make it 3 in a row in this thread, but there's stuff to get out of my system :)

In 1970, 1968 and 1966, 5 past champions took part. But in what races did they come together? And what present and future champs were there?

1970, 5 past champions, 8 past titles
1970, 6 past/present champions, 9 past/present titles
1970, 8 past/present/future champions, 14 past/present/future titles

* past (Stewart, G.Hill, Hulme, Brabham, Surtees)
# present (Rindt)
% future (Andretti, Fittipaldi)

1970, South Africa (5,6,7)
1 Jackie Stewart *
3 Jack Brabham *
4 Jochen Rindt #
6 Denny Hulme *
7 John Surtees *
11 Mario Andretti %
19 Graham Hill *

1970, Spain (5,6,7)
1 Jack Brabham *
2 Denny Hulme *
3 Jackie Stewart *
8 Jochen Rindt #
12 John Surtees *
15 Graham Hill *
16 Mario Andretti %

1970, Monaco (5,6,6)
1 Jackie Stewart *
3 Denny Hulme *
4 Jack Brabham *
8 Jochen Rindt #
13 John Surtees *
16 Graham Hill *

1970, Great Britain (5,6,8)
1 Jochen Rindt #
2 Jack Brabham *
5 Denny Hulme *
8 Jackie Stewart *
9 Mario Andretti %
19 John Surtees *
21 E.Fittipaldi %
22 Graham Hill *

1970, Germany (5,6,8)
2 Jochen Rindt #
7 Jackie Stewart *
9 Mario Andretti %
12 Jack Brabham *
13 E.Fittipaldi %
15 John Surtees *
16 Denny Hulme *
20 Graham Hill *

1970, Canada (5,5,5)
1 Jackie Stewart *
5 John Surtees *
15 Denny Hulme *
19 Jack Brabham *
20 Graham Hill *

1970, USA (5,5,6)
2 Jackie Stewart *
3 E.Fittipaldi %
8 John Surtees *
10 Graham Hill *
11 Denny Hulme *
16 Jack Brabham *

1970, Mexico (5,5,6)
2 Jackie Stewart *
4 Jack Brabham *
8 Graham Hill *
14 Denny Hulme *
15 John Surtees *
18 E.Fittipaldi %

1968, 5 past champions, 8 past titles
1968, 5 past/present champions, 9 past/present titles
1968, 8 past/present/future champions, 14 past/present/future titles

* past (Clark, G.Hill, Hulme, Brabham, Surtees)
# present (G.Hill)
% future (Rindt, Andretti, Stewart)

1968, South Africa (5,5,7)
1 Jim Clark *
2 Graham Hill *#
3 Jackie Stewart %
4 Jochen Rindt %
5 Jack Brabham *
6 John Surtees *
9 Denny Hulme *

1966, 5 past champions, 7 past titles
1966, 5 past/present champions, 8 past/present titles
1966, 8 past/present/future champions, 14 past/present/future titles

* past (Clark, G.Hill, Brabham, Surtees, P.Hill)
# present (Brabham)
% future (Rindt, Stewart, Hulme)

No races in which all 5 past champions started


#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 10:58

Where did Hill start, then, and who didn't start there?

#13 Marcel Schot

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 11:14

The missing link for the entire 1966 season is Phil Hill. He never actually was on the grid that season, as he was a non starter in Monaco and did not qualify in Italy.

Graham Hill was in F1 from 1958 until 1975, which I think is or is very close to the most number of season a driver drove in F1.

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 13:06

How long was Maurice Trintignant around? And Farina, did he run F1 before the war?

#15 Marcel Schot

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 13:41

Trintignant : 1938 - 1964, amazing! Nuvolari to Clark, this man has raced all the giants. Never realised that.
Farina : 1932 (hillclimb) - 1955


#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 14:11

So is that longer than Hill? Gee, I guessed a couple of beauties... but it's not fair to take Farina back to the hillclimbs... when did he first sit his bum in a Formula 1 (or A or whatever they called them...)?
Trintignant was actually a lucky guess... is he still alive?

#17 Marcel Schot

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 15:31

According to Forix Trintignant is still alive and kicking, turning 83 on 30 October.

http://www.silhouet....ers/farina.html first mentions Farina in conjuction with GP in 1937, but Leif's detailed info takes it to 1933: http://www.kolumbus....llman/d3.htm#FA

#18 Racer.Demon

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 16:08

Marcel: why do you think we named the 8W pre-war/50s/60s combination game the Trintignant Trophy?;)

To be fair to Hill's 18 years at the top, that should be 1938-'39 / 1945-'64 for "Le Petoulet" (who by the way, Ray, is still alive at 82 years of age). But with 22 years it looks like Trintignant's career span is the longest anyone has been around at the highest level. Or is it?

Aren't we forgetting Louis Chiron - actually a 19th century man! His first Grand Prix win was in the 1926 Comminges GP. His last GP appearance was his DNQ in André Testut's 250F at the 1958 Monaco GP - at the age of 58! So when exactly was his debut? Felix? Leif?

"Phi-Phi" Étancelin was another war survivor (also born in the 19th century) who raced from the late twenties through into the early fifties, as did Luigi Fagioli. And competitively at that.

Another great example is Hans (von) Stuck Sr, featured in last month's 8W game. Although not at a top level all the time, his career spanned four decades, starting in hillclimbs in 1923, Stuck finally calling it quits as late as 1960. He lived to see Hans-Joachim become a Grand Prix driver.

And, including Indycars, who can beat the length of Mario's career? Or AJ Foyt's? Or Emmo's?

Also, don't forget Jo Bonnier's 16 years: 1956-'71. And Patrese's 17 years of course: 1977-'93, making him the modern-day Trintignant - both were good sports, gentle on the machinery (at least Riccardo became so later on!) and scored the occasional wins as well.


#19 Todd

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 17:20

Spa 1991:

1 Ayrton Senna 3xWDC, 41 wins
2 Alain Prost 4xWDC, 51 wins
3 Nigel Mansell WDC, 31 wins
4 Gerhard Berger 10 wins
5 Jean Alesi
6 Nelson Piquet 3xWDC
7 M.Schumacher 2xWDC, 40 wins
8 Roberto Moreno
9 P.Martini - Qualified 9th in a Minardi - Need I say more?
10 Stefano Modena
11 A.de Cesaris Most GP starts of any driver
12 Ivan Capelli
13 Mark Blundell
14 J J Lehto
15 M.Gugelmin
16 Martin Brundle
17 Riccardo Patrese 6 wins
18 Thierry Boutsen 3 wins
19 G.Morbidelli
20 Eric Bernard
21 Johnny Herbert 3 wins
22 Satoru Nakajima
23 O.Grouillard
24 Mika Hakkinen 2xWDC
25 Emanuele Pirro
26 Erik Comas

That was a strong field. Drivers who started that race combined for 15 WDCs, soon to be 16.

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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 September 2000 - 22:07

Monkhouse and King-Farlow say that Louis bought his car in 1927 and basically jumped in at the deep end. His first event was a 'Free for all at Montlhery' in which he finished second to Albert Divo's Talbot, and ahead of GEORGE EYSTON (in case that helps someone), and that he was in the British GP at Brooklands with the 1.5 Bugatti team with Conelli and Materassi.
I didn't know he ran in 1958, I thought he'd petered out in the late forties, so there are still lots of things for me to learn. I've mentioned before about his family situation, of course.
So 1927 to 1958 is a mere 32 years (probably 31 and a couple of months, if all facts were known).
When I first posted my teaser I was going to mention Bonnier, though I didn't know when he started and I knew he his career was interrupted by his premature death (wonder what happened to the McLaren BRM that used to hang on the wall of his loungeroom?). As the question was F1, how do we feed Mario into this? He was in and out like a groom on his wedding night... but Indianapolis is first class racing, and he first outings were about 1964 and he retired in what, 1996? About the same as Chiron, but longer with his earlier career.
Fascinating, and to think Trintignant is still alive... beats the socks off von Brauchtisch. And years younger...

#21 Marcel Schot

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Posted 13 September 2000 - 12:51

At one point GP wins were mentioned in this thread. Stat-nut as I am, I just had to take a look at that :)

So far I've only taken a look at career GP wins, be it before, during or after the season for which they are counted. I've counted all active drivers per season, excluding the 1950-1960 Indy 500 winners. The top 10:

1. 1985 234 wins
2. 1991 233 wins
3. 1980 218 wins
4. 1984 217 wins
5. 1993 206 wins
6. 1986 205 wins
7. 1982 202 wins
8. 1981 191 wins
9. 1994 190 wins
10.1978 187 wins

A win for Hakkinen, Schumacher, Alesi or Herbert would put 85 and 91 equal, so I presume that by the end of the season 1991 is the winningest year in F1 history.

Ofcourse with the later seasons containing more races, it would be highly unlikely anything from the first 30 years could reach the top 10.

Which immediatelly shows the shocking figure of this year. The 18 wins of Hakkinen, 11 of Villeneuve, 41 of Schumacher, 9 of Coulthard, 4 of Irvine, 3 of Herbert, 3 of Frentzen and 1 each for Alesi and Barrichello, add up to 91 wins. That's the lowest number of wins present since 1964 when it was 90! In the whole list, 2000 ranks 38th.

The first year with 100 or more wins was 1960, the year in which Jim Clark made his debut.

I'd love to give figures on a race by race basis, but I'd need a database or a lot more time :) I mean, Excel is nice, combined with the wins list from Forix and looking up in Forix in which seasons each winner drove, but doing that per race would be what we call a monk's work.

#22 Leif Snellman

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Posted 13 September 2000 - 21:59

On a race by race basis Austria 1999 must be one of the worst in the modern era:

Irvine 1
Coulthard 5
Häkkinen 12 - 1 WDC
Frentzen 2
Hill 22 - 1 WDC
Panis 1
Herbert 2
Alesi 1
Villeneuve 11 - 1 WDC

Giving a total of 57 victories and 3 WDCs.



#23 Felix Muelas

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Posted 13 September 2000 - 22:08

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Aren't we forgetting Louis Chiron - actually a 19th century man! His first Grand Prix win was in the 1926 Comminges GP. His last GP appearance was his DNQ in André Testut's 250F at the 1958 Monaco GP - at the age of 58! So when exactly was his debut? Felix? Leif?


Comminges was on 1st August, but it looks that his first "serious" race was at Miramas at the end of March 1926, for the II Grand Prix de Provence. He was second to Lehoux in a similar Bugatti 35 on his Heat and finished fourth on the Final, which Henry Segrave won from "Williams".

Felix



#24 Leif Snellman

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Posted 13 September 2000 - 22:12

Originally posted by Racer.Demon

Aren't we forgetting Louis Chiron - actually a 19th century man! His first Grand Prix win was in the 1926 Comminges GP. His last GP appearance was his DNQ in André Testut's 250F at the 1958 Monaco GP - at the age of 58! So when exactly was his debut? Felix? Leif?


He first appeared in competition in 1923 ! Thats "only" a 35 year career.

But Mario Andretti started racing back in 1959!!


#25 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 13 September 2000 - 23:08

Louis Alexandre Chiron passed his driving test at the early age of 13, which was in 1912. Like Leif mentioned, Louis started in 1923, when he got a 1500cc Bugatti from Ernest Friderich, the Nice Bugatti dealer. With this car he participated as a pure amateur in several mountain races (=hill climbs) organized by the Moto Club de Nice.

#26 Joe Fan

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Posted 14 September 2000 - 00:46

Well, time for me to chime in finally. I haven't had a chance to sit down and really study this like I should but what about 1953 French Grand Prix?

Here are some of the participants
Ascari
Villoresi
Fangio
Gonzalez
Farina
Hawthorn
Moss
Rosier
Chiron
Collins
Behra
Salvadori
Schell



#27 Marcor

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Posted 14 September 2000 - 02:05

Add Felice Bonetto, Onofre Marimon, Emmanuel de Graffenried, "B.Bira", Bob Gerard, Ken Wharton, Elie Bayol, Lance Macklin, Yves Giraud-Cabantous, Johnny Claes, Maurice Trintignant, Roberto Mieres

and you'll have the complete grid...

#28 Marcel Schot

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Posted 14 September 2000 - 11:20

I spent some (way too much) time on compiling a list per season of wins achieved by the active drivers at the end of that season (so no wins achieved in the future).

Now the top 10 looks like this:
1. 1991 140 wins
2. 1990 125 wins
3. 1993 119 wins
4. 1989 116 wins
5. 1985 109 wins
6. 1994 105 wins
7. 1979 103 wins
8. 1988 101 wins
9. 1999 99 wins
10.1978 98 wins

This year with 90 wins so far, doesn't look too bad after all, in 12th place.

For 1991, the 140 mark was only achieved when Senna won the last race in Australia. However, Prost wasn't present in that race, so effectively there were never 140 wins on the grid. Same thing for the next to last race in Japan, where Michele Alboreto did not qualify his Footwork. So with 138 wins on the grid, the 1991 Spanish Grand Prix was the winningest grid to date:
1. Berger (5)
2. Mansell (21)
3. Senna (32)
4. Patrese (5)
6. Prost (44)
10.Piquet (23)
24.Alboreto (5)
26.Boutsen (3)

Grand Prix winners with 0 wins at that time:
5. Schumacher
7. Alesi
21.Hakkinen

[[[ the following part doesn't make sense and should really be deleted, but as further posts refer to it I'll leave it in here]]]

The greatest number of Grand Prix winners active in a season was 17 in 1977.

All these actually started in the 1977 Austrian GP:
1. Lauda
2. Hunt
3. Andretti
5. Reutemann
6. Laffite
7. Tambay
8. Scheckter
9. Mass
10.Depailler
11.Regazzoni
12.Watson
13.Brambilla
14.Jones
15.Peterson
16.Nilsson
18.Jarier
23.Fittipaldi

Edited the wins list after finding out about the Villeneuve error mentioned below
[p][Edited by Marcel Schot on 09-14-2000]

#29 Marcel Schot

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Posted 14 September 2000 - 13:07

Nevermind the last part of the previous post. I only got to 17 because I forgot to detail Gilles Villeneuve's win, instead having 6 in all his seasons in my (rapidly growing) Excel sheet. Reality is that 1977 had 16 Grand Prix winners racing, just like 1978,1979,1980 and 1982. My list was 17 drivers long, because for some odd reason I added Patrick Tambay, who in fact only won his first race in 1982.

Probably a signal to lay my statistics mind to rest for a while :)

#30 Leif Snellman

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Posted 14 September 2000 - 14:19

Marcel,

I really don't understand the criteria for your last list, Jarier for example.

Anyway look at my early example from Austria 1978. There are already 21 winners.



#31 Marcel Schot

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Posted 14 September 2000 - 14:58

Leif,

That's exactly what I meant when I said I needed a rest :) I'm gonna edit that post again and pull the list out, it's utter crap. Anyway, the basic idea was to give a grid of drivers who had won a GP at the time of that race. That's the difference with your list, those are drivers who have won a GP during their career, being it before that race or after it. For instance Tambay won his first race after 1978.

#32 NelsonPiquet

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Posted 20 September 2000 - 22:30


Wasn't also post-Imola 94 one of the seasons with no active World Champion in it? At least until Mansell returned for the last GP (Australia I think)

It's all from the top of my head, so feel free to correct me...



#33 Marcel Schot

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Posted 21 September 2000 - 11:59

Nelson : you're very correct, although it wasn't a complete season without champs

After a bit of resting I've made a new attempt at what I was trying to say earlier :)

In the history of F1 it happened twice (in consecutive races) that of the drivers standing on the grid, 15 were racewinners.

The first one was Belgium 1978:
1 Mario Andretti
2 Carlos Reutemann
3 Niki Lauda
5 Jody Scheckter
6 James Hunt
7 Ronnie Peterson
9 John Watson
11 Alan Jones
12 V.Brambilla
13 P.Depailler
14 Jacques Laffite
15 E.Fittipaldi
16 Jochen Mass
18 Clay Regazzoni
22 Jacky Ickx

The next one was Spain 1978:
1 Mario Andretti
2 Ronnie Peterson
3 Carlos Reutemann
4 James Hunt
6 Niki Lauda
7 John Watson
9 Jody Scheckter
10 Jacques Laffite
12 P.Depailler
15 E.Fittipaldi
16 V.Brambilla
17 Jochen Mass
18 Alan Jones
21 Jacky Ickx
22 Clay Regazzoni

Gilles Villeneuve (4th in Belgium, 5th in Spain) won his first race in the last race of 1978. Other drivers on those grids who started winning races later on in their careers:
Riccardo Patrese (8th in .be, 8th in .es)
Jean Pierre Jabouille (10th in .be, 11th in .es)
Rene Arnoux (19th in .be)
Didier Pironi (23th in .be, 13th in .es)
Patrick Tambay (14th in .es)

Keke Rosberg did not qualify in Belgium and did not pre-qualify in Spain


#34 mikedeering

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 18:09

Lowest race in terms of GP winners at that time has to be Monaco 1994, at least in the Modern era..

Off the top of my head I am guessing the wins went like this

Schumacher on 5
Hill on 3
Alboreto on 5
Berger on 8

No World Champions
Err..that's it isn't it? - Checked with Forix and was right! That's quite sad having that knowledge in my head!!!

So a thumping 21 then! Well done boys!

I suppose maybe Imola 1982 didn't boast too many GP wins (at that time) - just Prost, Arnoux, Pironi, Villeneuve - but then only 14 started so it doesn't really count.
I guess Villeneuve on 6, Pironi 1, Prost 5 and Arnoux 2 for a total of 14 - and no World Champions either...

I can't see any race since the early 50s beating that!


#35 NelsonPiquet

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 18:20


How about "the most recent race with no WC"? It's gotta be the race before Australia 94 (if I remember correctly that was Mansell's short-lived return to racing).



#36 mikedeering

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Posted 26 October 2000 - 18:49

No NP - Mansell drove the last 3 events of 1994, and also in France of that year - so it was actually in Portugal 1994 won by Damon Hill - since then there has always been a World Champion at each GP.

Before that - hmm difficult - 1959 definitely was since Farina and Fangio had retired and Ascari & Hawthorn were sadly already dead at that time.

Any suggestions Marcel?

#37 Marcel Schot

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Posted 27 October 2000 - 06:52

This one's interesting. Now the question arises of "what's the definition of "on the grid"?"

If it's being on the grid when the race starts, the last race with no WC was France 1996: the only past WC then, Michael Schumacher, didn't start the race because his engine blew in the warm-up lap.

If it's having qualified for the race, then indeed Portugal 1994. Before that ofcourse Italy, Belgium, Hungary, Germany, Great Britain, Canada, Spain and Monaco in 1994.

Before that, the last race with no WC was Spain 1975. Only past WC's in 75 were Graham Hill, who wasn't present in Spain, and Emerson Fittipaldi, who did not start in Spain. Or did he? http://www.askide.co...reports/254.cfm says "The Fittipaldi brothers stood by their convictions and covered sufficient distance, at low speed, to guarantee their starting money before withdrawing and watching the race from the sidelines.", but Emerson is actually classified as dns.

On a sidenote : does anybody know why Hill didn't appear in Spain? I suspect his accident at Kyalami has something to do with it, but I can't find anything right now (or right here)

#38 Racer.Demon

Racer.Demon
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Posted 27 October 2000 - 12:09

Originally posted by Marcel Schot
Before that, the last race with no WC was Spain 1975. Only past WC's in 75 were Graham Hill, who wasn't present in Spain, and Emerson Fittipaldi, who did not start in Spain. Or did he? http://www.askide.co...reports/254.cfm says "The Fittipaldi brothers stood by their convictions and covered sufficient distance, at low speed, to guarantee their starting money before withdrawing and watching the race from the sidelines.", but Emerson is actually classified as dns.


It's Wilson and Arturo Merzario who did one lap to get their starting money. Emerson didn't start the race. This is from Geza Sury's Lella Lombardi story on 8W:

Then came Spain and the race on the Montjuic circuit, where Lella's new red-and-white Lavazza livery was presented. Before the race on Thursday, reigning world champion Emerson Fittipaldi was scheduled to do a photo shoot out on the circuit for one of his sponsors. The photographer asked Emerson to sit down to the armco but to both men's amazement the armco succumbed under the Brazilian's weight. So Fittipaldi started to examine other parts of the track and found out all the surrounding armco was totally useless in case of an accident. So he called upon a meeting, where he himself, Niki Lauda, Carlos Reutemann, Carlos Pace and Jody Scheckter were present, and of course Denny Hulme, who at the time was the chairman of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association. On the drivers' behalf Denny requested the organisers to strengthen the armco, otherwise they would boycott the race. The organisers would have none of it, so the atmosphere in the paddock was tense. First practice had been cancelled, but for the second one Jacky Ickx took the track. 'Crazy' Vittorio Brambilla followed him out, but the others, Lombardi amongst them, stayed in their garages.

For the following day, the two rookies Roelof Wunderink and Bob Evans also went out, and after practice the drivers had to vote what to do next. Lella voted to race, with Mario Andretti, Mark Donohue, Ronnie Peterson, Vittorio Brambilla, Tony Brise, Jacky Ickx and Bob Evans sharing the idea. But finally everyone bowed to the pressure of team bosses and agreed to race. Well, almost everyone, as Emerson Fittipaldi stuck to his word, boycotted the race and flew home. "This is a good decision, even if I lose the title because of it," the Brazilian explained.

Originally posted by Marcel Schot
On a sidenote : does anybody know why Hill didn't appear in Spain? I suspect his accident at Kyalami has something to do with it, but I can't find anything right now (or right here)


It had, but by then Graham also had decided to quit. He returned to Monaco as it would be the right environment for his last race but in the end he wasn't fit enough to qualify. After that, of course, he had Tony Brise waiting in the wings. The question is, why wasn't Migault there with him in Monaco?