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The marshal injured in 1975 British GP crash


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#1 Paul Taylor

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 22:14

ESPN Classic have just shown 30 minute highlights of the original British GP coverage. They showed the pileup at the end of the race, where everyone went off. Now, I've seen the video of this before in low quality on the internet, but what I didn't realise was that a marshall was run over by one of the cars and seemed to be unconscious with facial injuries (at least). Jody Scheckter and I think Pace ended up in the barriers first. Soon after, Dave Morgan joined them (not shown by the camera). When the camera angle changed to the scene of the accident, you could see the marshall laying face down in the mud, with his feet against Scheckter's Tyrrell and his head a metre from Morgan's rear wheel.

Then James Hunt piled in and hit Morgan head on, the front of Morgan's car acting like a launch ramp, with Morgan (still in the car) so nearly being hit in the face by either Hunt's nose or front wheel. Luckily, Morgan's car didn't move an inch. If the nose of his car hadn't launched Hunt's Hesketh over the top of him, the marshall would have surely been killed :( Then Wilson Fittipaldi joined in. Meanwhile, all the other marshalls were trying to get out of the way while the poor unconscious marshall still lay in the middle of the wreck.

Does anyone know the fate and identity of the marshall? I don't think he was killed, else it would have been documented. One of the marshalls (complete with longish hair and long sideburns) checked the marshall before Hunt and Fittipaldi crashed, but no one made any effort to get him out of the line of fire. :|

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#2 Twin Window

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 22:29

When I read the title of this thread, I thought you were referring to Gerry Marshall's massive shunt in the Triumph Dolomite! That was a few years later, so I've altered the title to avoid any further confusion.

I've no idea about any marshal being injured; most of the cars went off at Stowe and Club while I was at Becketts. Boy, did it rain! IIRC the first to crash was Tom Pryce who lost it in front of us, sending wooden catch-fencing posts flying in all directions - including over my head. I remember as if it were just weeks ago him walking back past us, totally (and understandably) ashen-faced...

#3 Paul Taylor

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 22:44

Yeah, they showed that too. Big slide coming out of the corner, went one way, then the other, then the other way again, looked like he'd caught it, then headed off the road and into the wall/catch fencing! :eek:

#4 ghinzani

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 22:47

Just watched it Paul, arent ESPN brilliant first off? As to that marshall, I just watched it on the Sky+ and he looks to be groggy but concious, with a large cut on his head. He also looks like he is partially trapped by all the cars around him, I wonder if thats why he was'nt moved? Did you notice earlier a marshall ran across the hanger straight in front of the cars, just by where Pryces car had gone off earlier - I have to say my heart was in my mouth despite the passage of time!

#5 Paul Taylor

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 22:58

Yeah, they are brilliant - though I thought Bernie owned all the F1 footage and ITV were the only channel allowed to show it. The only negative points I have are that the programmes are edited (not the full races :(), the editing is poor (one minute Pace was in the lead, then they did a jump cut and suddenly Pryce in the lead - there was nothing to indicate when/how/where Pace had been passed) and they keep showing those silly captions.

#6 ghinzani

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 23:13

And amongst the greats like Watson, Hunt and Lauda whose mugs we see in the opening sequence is... Rupert Keegan. I wonder if he gets an appearance fee? How ironic it would be for him not to get paid... ;) But thats another, highly litigiuos, thread...

#7 Paul Taylor

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 23:18

Yeah, I think they just quickly grabbed those pictures from the 1977 and 1978 races they showed in August.

Anyway, I'm sending them an email to say what a good job they've done and also how to improve it a little!

#8 Gary C

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 08:52

LADS!! Let's get this straight. The footage ESPN Classic are showing is the original BBC footage/programmes from the time. The only thing ESPN have done is put in a commercial break! So any comments about editing, camera angles, graphics etc should be directed at the BBC circa when the race was filmed.

#9 SEdward

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 12:11

Twinny.

Wasn't Gerry Marshall driving a Capri? His shunt happened right in front of me at the entry to Club. I remember just looking up from my programme and seeing the car high in the air upside down!

Edward

#10 Gary C

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 15:35

'though I thought Bernie owned all the F1 footage and ITV were the only channel allowed to show it.'
No no no. Bernie owns the TV rights to Formula 1 from 1982 onwards, before that who ever filmed the races owns that said footage. ITV being the only channel alowed to show it?? Rubbish.

#11 Paul Taylor

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 17:35

Originally posted by Gary C
LADS!! Let's get this straight. The footage ESPN Classic are showing is the original BBC footage/programmes from the time. The only thing ESPN have done is put in a commercial break! So any comments about editing, camera angles, graphics etc should be directed at the BBC circa when the race was filmed.


Really? So, they didn't show full races on the BBC pre-1978?

#12 rateus

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 17:44

Indeed not, at least for a few years previous. I well remember this 9-year-old's excitement that I was actually going to get to see a whole race as it happened.

Of course the only proper response was to go round a friend's house and play scalextric while the race rumbled away in the background... :drunk:

#13 Bill Becketts

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 17:50

Originally posted by SEdward
Twinny.

Wasn't Gerry Marshall driving a Capri? His shunt happened right in front of me at the entry to Club. I remember just looking up from my programme and seeing the car high in the air upside down!

Edward


No. Gerry Marshall was driving a Triumph Dolomite and was recovered from the rear seats area of the car. During his role the driver seat became detached from its mountings!

It was a huge shunt and he was very lucky not to suffer greater injuries

#14 Gary C

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 18:41

In fact, I can't remember the year when we started to get full, 'live' race coverage on the BBC, would have been the early 80's perhaps? (maybe the time Bernie did the FOCA deal.....)

#15 Gary C

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 18:50

in fact, I discovered this photo on an ex-BBC staff members website. I remember this actual room like it was yesterday, as I worked in the VT Library office just around the corner. This photo would have been taken as the race was coming in 'live' off the satellite (unfortunately, we don't know which 1981 race).
Murray & James didn't start attending the actual races for a little whiule.
The picture shows the production staff with Murray on the phone on the far right with James Hunt sitting in the middle of the shot. The VT machines would have been where the guys are gathered on the left of the pic just out of shot, recording the incoming pictures. Murray & James would then add their commentary to the edit of the race a little later & the programme would be transmitted later that Sunday evening.


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#16 Gary C

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 18:55

here's another picture from the same source, showing how the graphics were done in those far-off days before computers!! These are magnetic strips of names etc that were stuck to a black board and then a camera was pointed at it & then superimposed onto whatever picture they wanted.
FYI : Those are one inch video tapes on the far left, the first is a 30 minute tape, middle one of a 90, third one is a 60 minute tape.

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#17 Paul Taylor

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 20:13

I have all the races from 1982 on tape and they're in full and I know races were shown in full before this, though I don't think every race was shown live. Everything I've got before 1982 is with German/Austrian commentary and the earliest full race I have being the 1972 British GP.

So, they showed full races on ORF (Austrian TV channel, is it?) from at least 1972 onwards.

#18 Gary C

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 20:25

that would be correct, but the BBC, which is what I thought we were talking about, only showed a few races of the year in highlights, plus, if we were lucky, the British and Monaco Grands Prix 'live'.

#19 Rockford

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 21:14

Thanks for the pictures and info Gary, really interesting stuff. :up:

(Any more?)

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#20 Bill Becketts

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 21:30

I started marshalling at Silverstone in 1980 but although I was spectating from 1973 I was not aware of any serious injuries to marshals at that GP until I saw this footage.....

Anyone able to update us on this?

#21 Gary C

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 07:45

sorry, Rockfordm those are the only two pictures I've been able to come up with. Now, if only I'd taken my camera into work with me a little more often.....

#22 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 08:08

A certain Mr. Nye reports in his book: The British Grand Prix 1926-1976:
....Down at Club near-tragedy saw Brise beat down the catch fences in a heavy accident wich tore his helmet off inflicting concussion and facial injuries, while Howard Tilden, the chief marshal there was felled by following cars which carered and cannoned helplessly trough the torn-down fencing. Scheckter destroyed the front of his Tyrell against the bank, ..... Debries also slightly injured one spectator and a crash at Woodcote (Jarier) a pole from a catchfence hit and injured a woman spectator.

#23 Paul Taylor

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 20:44

Thanks for posting that, Hugo. I think Jarier whacked his head as well. I never knew Brise lost his helmet. What a completely stupid idea catch fencing was!

#24 Bill Becketts

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 20:56

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
Thanks for posting that, Hugo. I think Jarier whacked his head as well. I never knew Brise lost his helmet. What a completely stupid idea catch fencing was!


Not only did it cost money to replace ( I remember it being said that it cost £100 a row during the 80's) but there were always delays while it was repaired...Which could mean we would loose the last race of the day.

Usually this was Formula Ford..........So a lot of money could be saved, I suppose ;)

#25 Twin Window

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 21:10

The Brise incident prompted the owner of Griffin Helmets, Terry Ogilvie-Hardy, to explain his 'frangible bolt' theory whereby the chin-strap attachments were meant to break. Yeah, right Terry... :rolleyes:

Jarier's GPA lid split, IIRC.

Those catch-fences were, as stated earlier, a complete liability.

#26 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 14:54

Originally posted by Bill Becketts


No. Gerry Marshall was driving a Triumph Dolomite and was recovered from the rear seats area of the car. During his role the driver seat became detached from its mountings!

It was a huge shunt and he was very lucky not to suffer greater injuries


Yep, definately a Dolomite. I remember it well, one of the biggest shunts I've ever seen. I seem to recall reading, years later, that the back injury he sustained was the contributing factor to Gerry not getting a drive with the Rover SD1 team the following year. Now that would have been a wonderful combination.

I think the long term legacy of this shunt left him unable to walk very far in later years and often relaint on an electric buggy.

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#27 nigel red5

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 20:34

With so much that happened in the 1975 race, i just noticed an incident on something like my fourth viewing of the race since Saturday night....

Now maybe it's because i've been brought up in the pedantic world of the sport in it's current guise, but i can't help but point out that on what would have been Fittipaldi's 58th circulation maybe (if not, then certainly his 57th - the race results being taken from lap 56 remember), with a red flag out at the start/finish line, & yellows with accompanying oil flags being shown almost all round the circuit, Emerson passed Alan Jones's Embassy Hill car at Abbey on his way to the startline where he would park.

Don't ask me why i find this interesting...i just do. I can only guess it's a case of the current generation of fans being conditioned to look for the tiniest little transgression such as this.

Having said that though, what a marvellous race the '75 British GP is, what an event! And there was so much that was unseen during that ESPN classic broadcast as well. I've subsequently played with all the available material that i've got here and there are several notable incidents missing....

*They showed in the coverage Ragazzoni closing on Pace for the lead on about lap 10 or so. The subseqent overtaking manoevure at the new woodcote chicane for P1 is'nt there.

*The whole pitlane show when the rain started in the first shower. Regazzoni leaving the pits after the rear wing amendment was shown, as was the Pryce incident at Becketts. What was'nt shown was Scheckter's stop for wets, and Lauda's screwed-up pitstop, when he left the pitbox, did a Mansell.....and stopped dead in the outer lane of the pitlane for ages. I read subsequently that it was due to a wheel-nut not being done up properly. Sideways Scheckter, on his wets, passed three cars (!) and went from P4 to P1 in the space of about 600 yards between chapel curve, and the entrance to Stowe.....awesome stuff. Behind him Jarier was also on wets and climbing inexorably through the field to second.

*Scheckter then pitted from the lead as it dried out, to go back onto slick tyres, giving Jarier the lead......which is where the ESPN classic show picked up the coverage again, after adverts.

It's taken me most of the day, studying through race reports and checking tapes to work out what was missed...cos it was really doing my nut, that i had'nt a clue how the hell Jarier got into the lead when ESPN came back from ads

There's only so much you can show in a 25 minute highlights package though, and i don't blame ESPN for missing key bits....there was after all, a lot to cover.

Thinking on it a little further, Britain 1975 seems to be very much like Monaco 1982..... Both of them are really cracking races, with great action, a very close covering of the lead positions, overtaking......but sadly the first 75% of both races is never remembered, due to the extraordinary events that would happen later. Seems a shame that, really.

#28 Gary C

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 21:08

'and i don't blame ESPN for missing key bits...'
I think you mean the BBC !

#29 E.B.

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 21:21

Originally posted by Gary C
'and i don't blame ESPN for missing key bits...'
I think you mean the BBC !


Which is exactly why you can't blame ESPN :drunk:

#30 Julian Roberts

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 21:31

I too was thrilled to literally channel flick into both these films, I sincerly hope there will be more, and wasn't it great to hear Raymond Baxter again?

Anyway, my point. I am pleased to say I can add a photo to the Gerry Marshall crash. I can add no information as I didn't take the image, it was included in a lot of programmes I bought on ebay.

It was reported that Gerry was removed from the rear of the car - look at the roof ! The poor man must have been thrown around like a rag doll.

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#31 nigel red5

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 23:31

Originally posted by Gary C
'and i don't blame ESPN for missing key bits...'
I think you mean the BBC !


Nope Gary, i mean ESPN!...

What ESPN have gone and bought is the rights to show the archive of the BBC British Grand Prix tapes. i.e. the full lot of whatever the beeb has / had of these races. Whichever way the lengths are subsequently cut and edited to reflect a 24 / 52 minutes programming slot has been done by ESPN.

Typical example being yer Britain 1973 investigation from last year. Full length just over 2 hrs i recall you saying. ESPN take the tape, shape it down to a 52 min slot and fired it out.

1977....the retro film. Original BBC size - 30 mins. ESPN chop and shape down to 22 minutes.

1975. Original size, unknown. Probably not full length. Indeed, JYS introducing what he saw "5 hours ago" would suggest the 30-40 mins highlights programme - almost guaranteed longer than 22 mins. ESPN chop bits to suit the 30 mins slot inc. ads. Result = ESPN cut bits, not the beeb.

#32 SEdward

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 06:03

I agree with Nigel red5. The 1975 British GP was a cracking race until the rains came and those thrilling opening laps are often forgotten in light of what happened later on.

Edward

#33 Gary C

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 06:30

I can assure you that the only footage left of these races are the highlights packages (apart from the 73 race of couirse), everything else has been dumped. I know, as I've been through the BBC computer library system.

#34 DN5

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 12:36

Well, my Sky + machine failed me last Saturday :evil:

I only caught a few bits of it and I found it amazing watching this series just how things were back then (starting procedure, marshals on track etc).

I really hope that they repeat them (they seem to replay old soccer games enough) and this weekend the 78 race seems to be on again.

Geoff

#35 alnica

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 17:39

From Road & Truck

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#36 zakeriath

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 19:19

Just a note, ESPN are rerunning the 1973 - 1980 BGP discussed in this thread on this week, in the lead up to this years BGP

#37 john winfield

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 20:22

I can assure you that the only footage left of these races are the highlights packages (apart from the 73 race of couirse), everything else has been dumped. I know, as I've been through the BBC computer library system.


Thanks for the update Zak. What Gary tells is a real shame because Edward is right, it was a cracking race. In those early laps, up until the point when Regazzoni spun at Club, in the first shower I think, it was a straight fight; Tom Pryce, Carlos Pace and the Ferraris. Clay looked really feisty, hunting down the Shadow and the Brabham, and somewhere, from a camera angle on the inside of Woodcote, I've seen footage of his Ferrari outbraking one of them into the chicane.

I still think Brambilla deserved second place at the end! (I meant to say, I don't think Howard Tilden was badly hurt but someone may know otherwise).

Edited by john winfield, 05 July 2011 - 20:24.


#38 FredF1

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:50

While watching the 1975 season last night on ESPN Classic, I'm sure I spotted a young Nelson Piquet standing next to Emerson Fittipaldi on the grid before the start of the Brazilian GP.

#39 alansart

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 15:27

Does anyone know the fate and identity of the marshall? I don't think he was killed, else it would have been documented. One of the marshalls (complete with longish hair and long sideburns) checked the marshall before Hunt and Fittipaldi crashed, but no one made any effort to get him out of the line of fire. :|


IIRC he made a full recovery. Broken leg and dislocated shoulder if I remember correctly.

I was a marshal up at Stowe for that race. The sheer volume of water that fell in such a short time caught many of the drivers out. We had to deal with Donahue, Mass and Watson who simply aquaplaned off into the catch fencing. Others got through, just, and promptly went off at Club.

We were discouraged from jumping down off the walls until the accident(s) had finished after that.


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#40 Mark 13

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 21:43

Twinny.

Wasn't Gerry Marshall driving a Capri? His shunt happened right in front of me at the entry to Club. I remember just looking up from my programme and seeing the car high in the air upside down!

Edward


Confusion possibly relating to the Saloon support race in 1973, when Booth, Brodie and Marshall came together with the Capri barrel rolling. This is covered extensively on another thread and imo was the final nail in Group 2's coffin in the UK.

#41 LittleChris

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 22:47

Confusion possibly relating to the Saloon support race in 1973, when Booth, Brodie and Marshall came together with the Capri barrel rolling. This is covered extensively on another thread and imo was the final nail in Group 2's coffin in the UK.



It was Booth, Brodie and Matthews at Abbey in 1973. Wasn't Gerry Marshall's 1978 / 79 accident at Club in a Dolomite ?

#42 philippe7

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 03:36

Dave Matthews car during the incident in question ..... lucky man indeed !

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#43 Tim Murray

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:29

Wasn't Gerry Marshall's 1978 / 79 accident at Club in a Dolomite ?

Yes indeed - 1979 GP support saloon race. I have very vivid memories of looking up and seeing the car barrel-rolling towards me. Here's Simon Lewis's photo of the wreck:

I was a bit up the road, towards Abbey and likewise, it's vividly etched in my memory! Terrifying. Especially as Gerry was always a hero of mine.

Here's the damage as seen from the back...

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The roll cage stood up well to the impact(s) but the driver's seat didn't , I seem to recall.
And am I right in thinking that, as happened at the time, the race continued unabated apart from a stationary yelllow ?

But for this shunt , GM apparently would have been driving a works Rover in 1980 ... :



#44 Mark 13

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 22:45

It was Booth, Brodie and Matthews at Abbey in 1973. Wasn't Gerry Marshall's 1978 / 79 accident at Club in a Dolomite ?


Sorry, that was what i meant to type. Quite incredibla that Matthews got out alive, although he was badly injured and his heart actually stopped. I believe he would have been a works Ford driver the following year.