Jump to content


Photo

Why can't they get it right?


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,834 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 07 September 2006 - 19:05

I have just caught the last few minutes of 'Inside Grand Prix' on Motors T.V.

One feature is a 30 year flashback - this time to Monza 1976. They showed maybe 2 or 3 minutes or so of film from the race ending with Ronnie Peterson spraying the champagne. The narrator's comment was along the lines of "Well, wouldn't you if you had just won your first Grand Prix..." (my italics)

Who writes these things? And don't they ever check anything? :(

Advertisement

#2 Wolf

Wolf
  • Member

  • 7,881 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 07 September 2006 - 19:12

Is that Allianz sponsored show, usualy with with a lot of BMW presence (it was Williams when they sponsored them)? If so, I've grumbled about it already- I remember that at height of Stoddard/Ecclestone/AGP spat they showed a piece on Alan Jones and proclaimed him the first Australian driver to win the title... They tend to get things wrong, or not exactly right, quite often.

#3 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,834 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 07 September 2006 - 19:19

I looked to see if I could tack the first post of this thread to a relevant existing thread. I couldn't find one I liked but if Twinny can, I would be more than happy to see it merged.

Yes, Wolf, it is that programme.

#4 Wolf

Wolf
  • Member

  • 7,881 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 07 September 2006 - 19:26

Barry, it wasn't in any particular thread, so nothing's wrong with Your thread... :)

#5 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,783 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 07 September 2006 - 20:12

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I have just caught the last few minutes of 'Inside Grand Prix' on Motors T.V.

One feature is a 30 year flashback - this time to Monza 1976. They showed maybe 2 or 3 minutes or so of film from the race ending with Ronnie Peterson spraying the champagne. The narrator's comment was along the lines of "Well, wouldn't you if you had just won your first Grand Prix..." (my italics)

Who writes these things? And don't they ever check anything? :(


Go to the RC section and I'd be willing to bet that the majority of folk there don't even know who Ronnie Peterson was, so it surprises me not in the least that the folk at said show either don't check facts or assume that we are clueless minions when it comes to any form of racing more than 10 years past.

#6 Chris Bloom

Chris Bloom
  • Member

  • 619 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 07 September 2006 - 20:26

I remember at about the time I came out to SA (1990ish) their was a local compilation record released called '40 Years of Number 1's' or something like that. My Cousin had a copy. Anyway it was a double album and when you opened it up there was a sort of brief timeline of the last fourty years and things that happened in that time that might be interesting to South Africans. Astonishingly under 1979 it had 'Jody Scheckter wins F1 World Championship driving a Tyrrell Ford' (maybe not those exact words but close enough). Unfortunately my utter rage at the time of finding this out mainly went unnapreciated by those in my company at the time. I seem to think though that the compilation might have been co-sponsored by a local radio station along with the Ford Motor Company which may have possibly had some influence on the truth!

#7 DN5

DN5
  • Member

  • 276 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 07 September 2006 - 20:44

Hi

I must admit that I watch this program for the 30 year old features.

Is it sourced from German TV? I have never seen some of these shots before so I was wondering what the source is and wether it is commercially available?

Geoff

#8 Gary C

Gary C
  • Member

  • 4,532 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 07 September 2006 - 21:11

funnily enough, over the past few days, I watched all of the 'Racing Through Time' programmes I recorded from ESPN Classic earlier in the year (8 programmes in all). After watching the lot I'm afraid I came ot the conclusion that NONE of them were worth keeping and copying onto DVD. The last straw was the programme on 'classic tracks' which focused virtually all of its' attention on Spa (fair enough!), but what got me was that the programme was obviously made in about 2003, when the narrator informed me that Spa had now hosted its' last Formula 1 Grand Prix and would now be concentrating on GT, sportcar and club-style racing!! That did it, I erased the lot!!

#9 Disco Stu

Disco Stu
  • Member

  • 186 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 07 September 2006 - 22:35

At least they've finally learned how to pronounce Carlos Pace. That only took a year or two.

#10 Eric McLoughlin

Eric McLoughlin
  • Member

  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 08 September 2006 - 08:16

I caught a few minutes of the Motors TV programme yesterday and found the inability to show historic footage most annoying. John Bernard was describing John Watson's big shunt at Monza in 1981 but the programme was obviously unable to show any footage of this incidence - no doubt due to Bernie's F1 broadcast rights restrictions.

Are F1 TV and film histories now more or less torpedoed by Bernie's greed?

#11 Leif Snellman

Leif Snellman
  • Member

  • 1,076 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 08 September 2006 - 09:13

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I have just caught the last few minutes of 'Inside Grand Prix' on Motors T.V.

I saw it myself minutes ago. Turned down the sound and just enjoyed the picture.  ;)

#12 Mohican

Mohican
  • Member

  • 771 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:14

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
I

Are F1 TV and film histories now more or less torpedoed by Bernie's greed?


F1 racing as a whole is torpedoed by Bernie's greed. And Max'.

#13 LOTI

LOTI
  • Member

  • 250 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 08 September 2006 - 16:11

I had the catalogue from a news film archive and a lot of the footage was wrongly identified so that I had to take a whole lot of stuff I didn't want, to see if what I wanted was in there! If you get what I mean! Apart from Carlos Pace, don't you think they would know from listening that Jensen's surname rhymes with mutton and not mouton. But at least they are trying! good for Allianze, it's a canny bit of product placement.
Loti

#14 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 08 September 2006 - 16:14

Originally posted by LOTI
don't you think they would know from listening that Jensen's surname rhymes with mutton and not mouton

You'll remember that giving French pronunciations to English names goes back at least to Piers Courahzh ;)

#15 LOTI

LOTI
  • Member

  • 250 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 09 September 2006 - 06:21

Try having Irwin as a surname in France!

#16 Paul Parker

Paul Parker
  • Member

  • 1,696 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 09 September 2006 - 08:30

The problem with these 'retro' programmes is that they are often produced by persons who were either children or not even born when the events took place.

Thus they are frequently uninformed, misinformed or simply lack empathy with the era and the genre. This last point being evident occasionally in the 'comics'. Additionally of course they are deliberately superficial and abbreviated to cut costs, another similarity they share with their magazine cousins.

#17 Andretti Fan

Andretti Fan
  • Member

  • 355 posts
  • Joined: October 05

Posted 09 September 2006 - 11:00

I watched the "Inside Grand Prix" program last night, and while I loved the 76 footage, the mistake of calling Peterson a "first time winner " just jumped out at ya. Now I could understand if it was a minor GP figure, but this is Ronnie Peterson we're talking about. SOMEONE should have known better.

#18 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,882 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 09 September 2006 - 16:59

Those sort of mistakes make me sooooooooooo angry ! After all they are being paid and imho have a duty to get it right , but then what do they say ? Never let the truth get in the way of a good story !

OK guys rant over :wave: :stoned: :clap:

#19 jph

jph
  • Member

  • 370 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 09 September 2006 - 18:31

James Allen (I'll go and wash out my mouth) referred to the Monza banking during the Italian GP qualifying today as having been used extensively in the sixties and seventies and was raced on by drivers 'such as Jim Clark'. No mention of the fifties, but this is pre-history fo most of the audience, I guess.

Advertisement

#20 subh

subh
  • Member

  • 1,021 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 09 September 2006 - 19:47

I heard that as well, and would go further and say that he was talking almost complete and utter rubbish. The banking wasn’t really used beyond the early 1960s, and therefore he should have concentrated on the fifties and earlier. He’s a CENSORED....

#21 mfd

mfd
  • Member

  • 2,882 posts
  • Joined: May 03

Posted 10 September 2006 - 09:04

After all they are being paid and imho have a duty to get it right



Exactly my point !

#22 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 10 September 2006 - 22:45

This month's (ie October!) Motor Sport includes a picture of the start of the 1961 French Grand Prix and the caption refers to "The Ferraris of Wolfgang Von Trips, Phil Hill and Richie Ginther at the start. Their team mate Giancarlo Baghetti ~ will win". Now that is just plain sloppy journalism. Their own archives must contain a copy of their report of the race. Jenks went to great pains to explain the difference between FISA (Baghetti's entrant) and Scuderia Ferrari.

Failing to pick up a subtlety like that is unforgiveable in a magazine that purports to be devoted to racing history.

For heaven's sake! These are professional journalists, not young fanboys on a website, I agree they have a duty to get it right.


Edit: Missing capitals added. Pots and kettles! :o

#23 Languedoc

Languedoc
  • Member

  • 52 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 11 September 2006 - 03:41

For heaven's sake! These are professional journalists, not young fanboys on a website, I agree they have a duty to get it right.



D-Type:
I would add: this is what happens when a person does not feel PASSION about his job.
I know a lot of people (including me) that would be very glad to take a look at those scripts and correct them before the program is broadcasted.

funnily enough, over the past few days, I watched all of the 'Racing Through Time' programmes I recorded from ESPN Classic earlier in the year (8 programmes in all). After watching the lot I'm afraid I came ot the conclusion that NONE of them were worth keeping and copying onto DVD.



Gary:
"Racing through time" in spanish is worth turning the volume off. Translation of technical matters are lousy, no sense at all. Looks like a school kid with no idea about the subject translated them using a dictionary.

Languedoc

#24 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 September 2006 - 05:49

Originally posted by D-Type
This month's (ie October!) Motor Sport includes a picture of the start of the 1961 french Grand prix and the caption refers to "The Ferraris of Wolfgang Von trips, Phil Hill and Richie Ginther at the start. Their team mate Giancarlo Baghetti ~ will win". Now that is just plain sloppy journalism. Their own archives must contain a copy of their report of the race. Jenks went to great pains to explain the difference between FISA (baghetti's entrant) and Scuderia Ferrari.

Failing to pick up a subtlety like that is unforgiveable in a magazine that purports to be devoted to racing history.

For heaven's sake! These are professional journalists, not young fanboys on a website, I agree they have a duty to get it right.

Baghetti's car was looked after by the Scuderia so in effect there were four works Ferraris. It was only the name on the entrant's licence that was different.

#25 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 11 September 2006 - 12:36

Originally posted by Roger Clark

Baghetti's car was looked after by the Scuderia so in effect there were four works Ferraris. It was only the name on the entrant's licence that was different.

Although the car was looked after by the works mechanics, I think (but don't know for certain) that Baghetti would have received his instructions and pit signals (such as they were) separately from the Scuderia drivers

Were this an article in a national newspaper or a contemporary racing magazine I would agree with you. But Motor Sport is different as it claims to be about the History of motor racing and pedantic factual exactitude should therefore be the order of the day. Particularly as the writers should be carrying on the tradition of those two sticklers for accuracy, William Boddy and Denis S Jenkinson.


[Incidentally I'm surprised nobody has picked me up for the sloppy typing of my post with half the capital letters missing. :blush: ]

#26 philippe7

philippe7
  • Member

  • 2,777 posts
  • Joined: August 03

Posted 11 September 2006 - 13:42

Originally posted by subh
The banking wasn’t really used beyond the early 1960s

Strangely enough, I learnt just a few days ago - and to my great surprise- that the "long" Monza track ( the 10,100 KMS version ) including a full lap of the banking was used as late as 1969 (!) for the yearly 1000kms World Sportscars Championship race ....I never realized that it had been used as late as that.

#27 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member

  • 240 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 11 September 2006 - 14:53

On the Grand Prix film DVD extras Hawthorn bend at Brands is described as being named after Mike Hailwood ( "great motorcyclist and later Grand Prix driver")

#28 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 11 September 2006 - 15:22

Particularly as it wasn't even named after Mike Hawthorn (or so I understand)

#29 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member

  • 240 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 11 September 2006 - 15:33

Maybe confused because does'nt Hawthorn lead into (Derek, King of Brands) Minter straight

#30 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 September 2006 - 18:09

Originally posted by D-Type

Although the car was looked after by the works mechanics, I think (but don't know for certain) that Baghetti would have received his instructions and pit signals (such as they were) separately from the Scuderia drivers

During practice Moss got a tow from von Trips and a considerably better lap time than he could otherwise achieve.

"...by now Tavoni was awake to the trick and when he saw some British cars about to use Baghetti for a slip stream tow along the straight he signalled the Italian to come in. Engineer Chiti did not see this and when Baghetti stopped he asked what the trouble was, to which Baghetti replied that he did not know, Tavoni came up and said he could go off again now, as all the British cars were on the other side of the circuit" - DSJ

#31 LittleChris

LittleChris
  • Member

  • 2,164 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 11 September 2006 - 20:49

Originally posted by philippe7

Strangely enough, I learnt just a few days ago - and to my great surprise- that the "long" Monza track ( the 10,100 KMS version ) including a full lap of the banking was used as late as 1969 (!) for the yearly 1000kms World Sportscars Championship race ....I never realized that it had been used as late as that.


With chicanes in place before the north & south bankings from 1966 - 69 I believe