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A couple of questions about circuits...


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#1 angst

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:21

Frstly, does anybody know if there were plans to develop Selangor/Shah alam before the new Sepang circuit was built. Secondly, there were plans for a circuit at Lake Valence near Budapest (details on GdeCarli's site). Does anybody have any details about where this was planned for, and any of the original (1974) plans?

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#2 LittleChris

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 20:24

Wasn't Shah Alam extended with the building of the infield loop back in the early - mid 80's for the World Sportscar Championship ? I thought that may have been a precursor to a bid for an F1 race

#3 subh

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 00:12

Batu Tiga / Selangor / Shah Alam:

According to the Peter Higham reference book, the turn 11 infield extension was done for the WSC race of 1985, but it seems the series only went there once. However, I can let you know that the last Motorcycle Grand Prix to be held there was as recently as April 1997. Valentino Rossi was the 125cc winner.

#4 Graham Gauld

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 11:48

Been away hence my delay in replying to this thread. I visited Shah Allam in 1994 when I was based in Hong Kong. At the time the talk was that the owner of the rather large and impressive "palace" at one end of the circuit was not happy with the noise and that the track would possibly be closed. which is subsequently what happened.

An amusing side story to the visit : During practice I climbed up the hill to the upper part of the circuit and then returned to the paddock where I met a Malaysian journalist friend who asked where I had been photographing. I pointed to the top of the hill behind the pits and he said "...that's a long way to walk round the circuit to get round to the pits". I replied that I had used a little grass path through the bushes as short cut. He turned white and remarked "....don't use that path that whole area is covered with cobras !" Funny, you don't get that sort of thing when going cross-country at Oulton Park.
The other story at the same meeting I also tell against myself. You can imagine that a race meeting in Malaysia is hot. I think the temperature was about 104 and I went from the pits across to the esses leading into the pit straight. All the spectators were on the outside of the circuit save for four Indians standing under a single tree behind the fence. I noticed they were shouting at me so I wandered over to them. "One of them said, why are you out in the open like that in this heat you should be under a tree like us..............................who are you ? Mr Bean ? That is when I learned that Rowan Atkinson's humour crosses all borders.

#5 Catalina Park

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 06:45

Great story Graham. :p I had a friend that went to race at Shah Allam with a group of other Australian Sports Sedans and he told me of his adventures over there. One of the drivers crashed out on the circuit and his car was bought back to the pits but there was no sign of the driver. Apparently the driver had pulled himself from the wrecked car and collapsed in the long grass and was not seen by anyone. It took some time for the Aussies to convince the officials that one of their number was missing and a search party was sent to find him. The locals didn't want to go and look but was found eventually and lifted onto a stretcher and was being carried out when someone shouted "Cobra" and the locals dropped everything and run. Unfortunately they dropped the stretcher with the driver still on board. :cool:

#6 sterling49

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 20:32

I returned from Kuala Lumpur in August and saw many street posters proclaiming a Japanese GT race at Shah Alam, so my guess is that is is still in use........too hot there to enjoy motor racing....better to be in an aircon bar with an ice cold Anchor Beer!!!! :drunk:

#7 angst

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 22:19

Just to 'bump' this thread. What I'm after is some sort of insight into the design process that led to the circuits that we have being built. In the same way that the many proposals for the new 'Nurburgring', and the possible reasons why alternatives were rejected, tell that particular story.

What I'm really after is any insight that anybody has as to a)whether changes to the Shah Allam circuit were considered in order to bring the F1 race to Malaysia before the Sepang circuit was built, and at what stage the likes of Tilke was brought into the equation; and b) the same process leading to the Hungaroring. Thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: Also, does anybody know what section of the track (or what new section) was to be used for the French Grand Prix at Charade in '73 - before Paul Ricard got the gig? And what, exactly, was it that stopped Donington Park from resuming motor racing after WWII?

#8 Rob29

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 16:16

Originally posted by angst
Just to 'bump' this thread. What I'm after is some sort of insight into the design process that led to the circuits that we have being built. In the same way that the many proposals for the new 'Nurburgring', and the possible reasons why alternatives were rejected, tell that particular story.



EDIT: Also, does anybody know what section of the track (or what new section) was to be used for the French Grand Prix at Charade in '73 - before Paul Ricard got the gig? And what, exactly, was it that stopped Donington Park from resuming motor racing after WWII?

Same 5 Mile circuit at Charade in1965,69,70 & 72.Paul Ricard ws used in7 1& from 73.
Donington was ocupied by the army until around 1956. Several deals to re open it fell through before Tom Wealtcroft bought it in 1972.

#9 angst

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 18:47

Originally posted by Rob29
Same 5 Mile circuit at Charade in1965,69,70 & 72.Paul Ricard ws used in7 1& from 73.
Donington was ocupied by the army until around 1956. Several deals to re open it fell through before Tom Wealtcroft bought it in 1972.


I wish I could remember my source, but I read that Charade was to be used for the French Grand Prix in '73, but on a shorter circuit, but that the drivers objections were such that Paul Ricard took it's place. It's that proposed shorter circuit that I am looking for details on.

As for Shah Allam, I'm wondering whether, before forking out a huge amount of money for the new Sepang circuit in order to host F1, there were any development plans for the existing circuit.

And, any Hungarians. Does anybody have any idea of the design process that eventually led to the Hungaroring? I know that there were two possible 'street/park' circuits proposed, neither acceptable to the authorities. I know also of two alternative sites for a circuit and the general layout of the proposed circuits, but not their locations. What I'd like to know also is, were there any other track designs for the eventual location of the Hungaroring - in much the same way that the new Nurburgring went through various designs before the final version was built.

All and any help greatly appreciated.

#10 mat1

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 12:44

maybe they wanted to use the shorter circuit which is used nowadays (without the spectacular part at the north side of the mountain). But that's just a guess.

mat1

#11 gdecarli

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 08:55

Originally posted by angst
nd, any Hungarians. Does anybody have any idea of the design process that eventually led to the Hungaroring? I know that there were two possible 'street/park' circuits proposed, neither acceptable to the authorities. I know also of two alternative sites for a circuit and the general layout of the proposed circuits, but not their locations. What I'd like to know also is, were there any other track designs for the eventual location of the Hungaroring - in much the same way that the new Nurburgring went through various designs before the final version was built.

I'm not Hungarian, but on my website I have something about Népliget and Városliget street proposals in Budapest and proposals for permanent circuit at Tápióbicske and Velencei-tó. Moreover, I have also first layout (I think) of Szilasliget, later known as Hungaroring.

Posted Image
(Velencei-tó)




As regards Charade, I recall that even in 1972 there were rumors for a 5 km layout (not to be confused with the existing 5 miles!), but it was never built.
1988 layout (still in use) is 5 km long, so this 5km proposal was maybe similar, but not the same.
On my website you can find some sort info and standard map, but not the map of this short proposed circuit.

Ciao,
Guido

#12 gdecarli

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 09:02

Originally posted by angst
Just to 'bump' this thread. What I'm after is some sort of insight into the design process that led to the circuits that we have being built. In the same way that the many proposals for the new 'Nurburgring', and the possible reasons why alternatives were rejected, tell that particular story.

I have some of them on my website. For example, here following I post one, but I have more:

Posted Image

Ciao,
Guido

#13 angst

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 17:41

Originally posted by gdecarli

I'm not Hungarian, but on my website I have something about Népliget and Városliget street proposals in Budapest and proposals for permanent circuit at Tápióbicske and Velencei-tó. Moreover, I have also first layout (I think) of Szilasliget, later known as Hungaroring.

Posted Image
(Velencei-tó)




As regards Charade, I recall that even in 1972 there were rumors for a 5 km layout (not to be confused with the existing 5 miles!), but it was never built.
1988 layout (still in use) is 5 km long, so this 5km proposal was maybe similar, but not the same.
On my website you can find some sort info and standard map, but not the map of this short proposed circuit.

Ciao,
Guido


Thankyou Guido, I 'm a big fan of your website - lot's of fascinating stuff on there, and you have pointed out something that I missed - Szilasliget. So thanks for that. :up:

Do you have any info as to whether any plans were made to upgrade Selangor (again) prior to designing and building Sepang?

#14 gdecarli

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:09

Originally posted by angst
Do you have any info as to whether any plans were made to upgrade Selangor (again) prior to designing and building Sepang?

I'm happy you enjoyed my pages.
As regards Malaysia, I don't know any plans about Selangor, I don't recall even any rumor. But of course I could have missed them...
Maybe the circuit was too old, not suitable for modern F.1 and too difficult to be changed.

Ciao,
Guido