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The tragic events of the 1933 Italian GP; Monza, September 10th


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#1 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 16:56

The Gran Premio di Monza on 10 September, 1933 will always be remembered as the Black Day of Monza. Since the very beginning of automobile sport there had never been a tragedy of such proportions. After an alleged oil spill from one of the cars in the previous race, three of Europe's greatest racing drivers had crashed fatally on a supposedly inefficiently cleaned track within a few hours of each other: Giuseppe Campari, the most popular driver at that time, then Mario-Umberto Borzacchini, the great driver and famous friend of Nuvolari and in the final race Count Stanislas Czaykowski, winner of the heat 1 race.

But what were the real causes of the tragedy? The drivers in heat 2 had not yet finished their first lap when the tragedy took place. Campari and Borzacchini at the head of the 7-car field had passed through the North Curve, then opened the throttle along the straight leading to the next right-hand South Curve. They took this corner almost flat out at around 180 km/h. Some say the wheels of Campari's Alfa Romeo and Borzacchini’s Maserati – both monopostos – lost adhesion as the wheels slid over the sand covered oily patch, which gave no grip. On top of it both cars had slick speed track tires mounted and their front brakes removed. Both cars left the oval track over the outer retaining wall. Campari was killed instantly, Borzacchini died shortly after he was brought to the Monza Hospital. In the final race, Count Stanislas Czaykowski went also over the wall and was killed. This was terrible... inconceivable. Many motor sport followers were deeply moved by this disaster.

So – what is known now, after 73 years? Did Campari and Borzacchini really hit the sand covered oily patch or were they simply too fast for conditions? This was a short race over just 14 laps on a 4.5 km oval and therefore they might have been fighting for position early on? Were they driving 180 km/h or perhaps 190 or even more? And why did their tires loose adhesion? Why were these two leading cars carried towards the outside of the 21 degree banked turn? Yes a third car followed within seconds over the wall but its driver, Luigi Castelbarco escaped with only minor injuries and two other cars -further back- spun to the inside of that turn.

There followed a judicial investigation by the Milan Public Prosecutor with expert witnesses. What do we know about that? I am living on a small isle in the Pacific but maybe someone somewhere or in Italy knows or can find out what was written about this disaster back in 1933. It is all in your libraries. Rivista Raci, L’Auto Italiana, La Gazzetta dello Sport, Milano quotidiani... :rolleyes:

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#2 FLB

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 17:05

Certainly it put a lot of things in question for Enzo Ferrari. To lose either Borzacchini or Campari would have been a hard blow, but both at the same time... :(

#3 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 17:56

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
The Gran Premio di Monza on 10 September, 1933 will always be remembered as the Black Day of Monza.


Errr - just another one of the Black Days of Monza, surely? Emilio Materassi's fatal accident there in 1928 produced an infinitely worse toll - at least 27 spectators dead - as did Wolfgang von Trips's in 1961 - 14 spectators dying in addition to the driver? And then there was the awful motorcycle Grand Prix disaster of 1973 when Renzo Pasolini and Jaarno Saarinen both died and so many other riders were injured. All 'Black Days' - all at Monza. Let's not over-egg that 1933 pudding.

DCN

#4 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 17:58

a bit O.T. but not forgotten
45 years ago there was another back day at Monza
28 years ago again another black day for the sport

:cry:

#5 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 18:00

I think Czaykowski was too fast, a racing accident not caused by the oil.
But for Campari and Borzacchini I'd say their death could be avoided.

#6 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 18:25

Originally posted by Hugo Boecker
I think Czaykowski was too fast, a racing accident not caused by the oil.
But for Campari and Borzacchini I'd say their death could be avoided.

Hugo - thanks for addressing my questions. The Monza Race Director had asked all seven drivers of this heat 2 in writing to be cautious at the South Curve. The drivers basically were asked to take responsibility and acknowledge the oil spot on the track. The organizers did what they could to clean the track. They warned the drivers beforehand. Other drivers managed to get through safely. The drivers could have withdrawn without penalty. By taking part in the race, they knowingly accepted the risk.

#7 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 18:39

Originally posted by FLB
Certainly it put a lot of things in question for Enzo Ferrari. To lose either Borzacchini or Campari would have been a hard blow, but both at the same time... :(

Borzacchini had left the Scuderia end of July 1933 -I believe- to band together with his "big brother" Nuvolari, thereby switching from Alfa to Maserati.

#8 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 19:08

Originally posted by Doug Nye


Errr - just another one of the Black Days of Monza, surely? Emilio Materassi's fatal accident there in 1928 produced an infinitely worse toll - at least 27 spectators dead - as did Wolfgang von Trips's in 1961 - 14 spectators dying in addition to the driver? And then there was the awful motorcycle Grand Prix disaster of 1973 when Renzo Pasolini and Jaarno Saarinen both died and so many other riders were injured. All 'Black Days' - all at Monza. Let's not over-egg that 1933 pudding.

DCN

Doug - Yes, you are so right. I recited a 1933 quote. There were many black days over all those years, starting on a brand new Monza course when German Austro-Daimler driver Fritz Kuhn was killed during training for the 1922 Italian Grand Prix, followed in 1923 by Enrico Giaccone and Ugo Sivocci, Count Zborowski in 1924, Peter Kreis in 25 and then in 28 that terrible disaster, as you already mentioned.

I just tried to very briefly remind of the 1933 situation and am actually searching really for new or different answers, which may have an eternal sleep in Italian court document files, filled with eye-witness reports. With our world-wide audience here it might be possible that one or the other researching journalists might want to share their knowledge...

#9 ensign14

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 19:30

Originally posted by FLB
Certainly it put a lot of things in question for Enzo Ferrari. To lose either Borzacchini or Campari would have been a hard blow, but both at the same time... :(

Campari was retiring at the end of the season...

#10 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 19:48

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Doug - Yes, you are so right. I recited a 1933 quote. There were many black days over all those years, starting on a brand new Monza course when German Austro-Daimler driver Fritz Kuhn was killed during training for the 1922 Italian Grand Prix, followed in 1923 by Enrico Giaccone and Ugo Sivocci, Count Zborowski in 1924, Peter Kreis in 25...


Pete Kreis was killed - at Monza? 1925? :confused:

DCN

#11 Chris Bloom

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 19:49

Originally posted by ensign14
Campari was retiring at the end of the season...


To become an Opera singer apparently.

I recently put a picture of Guiseppe as the wallpaper on my PC at work. I was just trying to think of something interesting to use and his name just popped into my head. He replaced a picture of Hillary Duff :kiss: Strange old world isn't it?

#12 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 21:37

Originally posted by Doug Nye


Pete Kreis was killed - at Monza? 1925? :confused:

DCN

WOW!!! my mistakes, :blush: :blush:

#13 Wolf

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 00:13

Hans, I remeber a discussion a while ago when someone (pardon me, it may seem a bit rude, but I do not remember who) brought up the issue of rain before the race and track being damp in places, which may have, or may have not, contributed to the circumstances that led to the tragedy. Have You found further proof or that scenario (I mean not to question the poster, or his source, but when it comes to pre-war racing, to me the word of Hans is equal to gospel- for if You say something happened, I will not trust anyone who says it didn't)?

An OT, but one of our 'rags' a while ago, published a splendid picture of Campari and his shocked (as Don would put it- 'a severe case of wide eyes and blinks'*) co-driver after the French GP. To me it's one of the best racing pictures, as the co-driver's bewilldered stare was accompanied with the look of Campari's face that seems akin to the cat that's just swallowed a mouse. Mention of Campari and a wallpaper just brought this natural digression, sorry. :blush: As a further digression, I remeber promising to out dear friend Mike Argensinger to scan it, but never getting the opportunity, when he posted the quiz question about co-driver's identity... :

* IIRC, it's a good habbit to put sources, so I'd say off top of my head, it was reference to Phil Hill in Monaco qualifying (or is it the picture from 'Cruel Sport' that I've grown to associate with Don's marvellous turn of the phrase?)

#14 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 01:30

Originally posted by Wolf
Hans, I remeber a discussion a while ago when someone (pardon me, it may seem a bit rude, but I do not remember who) brought up the issue of rain before the race and track being damp in places, which may have, or may have not, contributed to the circumstances that led to the tragedy. Have You found further proof...

Wolf - yes rain came up in another thread. I am trying to put a story together of the race - THE MONZA GRAND PRIX on SEPTEMBER 10, 1933 - and there exist some contradictions. ...well, what else is new! I am trying to find some answers. I do not think [which means I do not know] that rain has played a role in the Campari and Borzacchini accidents. But maybe we can find out more about these unfortunate happenings of September 10, 1933 in Monza by just asking everybody.

#15 Hieronymus

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:26

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
... maybe someone somewhere or in Italy knows or can find out what was written about this disaster back in 1933. It is all in your libraries. Rivista Raci, L’Auto Italiana, La Gazzetta dello Sport, Milano quotidiani... :rolleyes:


This surely must have made the headlines in Italy, so if someone can just check these publications that Hans suggested, it will throw some light on these questions. There are several knowledgable Italians in this Forum so perhaps one of you can please visit a library and tell us more...

#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 07:37

Not an Italian source, but on September 11th 1933 "The Times" printed a longer than normal report, headlined A TRAGIC MOTOR RACE - Three well-known drivers killed. It's bylined "from our own correspondent", so probably an agency report (Reuters?).

The cause, after "a hasty examination of the track" is given as the oil. No mention of rain.

#17 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 09:06

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
WOW!!! my mistakes, :blush: :blush:

But there must have been a fatal accident during the Italian GP in 1925.
In the daily paper " Generalanzeiger für Barmen und Elberfeld" 13 Sep 33 (now the town Wuppertal) I found an article about Monza that racing driver LEONARDI was killed. During a testdrive with a speed of 150 km/h he left the track in a bend and was buried under his car. The they said : during this race nearly a second fatality took place. During lap 3 driver Pete Kreis left the road but he had luck and was only minor injured.
In the race reports from 11 Sept. 1933 was only the oil mentioned.

#18 Twin Window

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 09:12

Sorry to have diddled around with the title of this thread so much; Hans - quite rightly - would like to concentrate solely on the events of Sunday, September 10th 1933, and so I've reverted the title to reflect his wishes.

Apologies for any confusion caused.

#19 D-Type

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 12:04

Hans, This is largely circumstantial: A few years back I asked "Was there ever a wet Monza race?". The reply I got was "Only 1981". Admittedly, the context was postwar.
I think the balance of probabilities is that 1933 was dry since rain at Monza is so unusual it would have been reported on.

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#20 KJJ

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 18:24

The Times newspaper published weather forecasts for Milan in 1933. Saturday the 9th September was forecast "Mainly Dull, showers", Monday the 11th was "Dull, some rain". Of course the Times wasn't published on a Sunday, hence no forecast for the 10th.

#21 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 19:14

Originally posted by Hugo Boecker

But there must have been a fatal accident during the Italian GP in 1925...

Hugo - I am not aware of any Monza fatalities in 1925.

#22 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 19:33

Originally posted by Hugo Boecker
...In the race reports from 11 Sept. 1933 was only the oil mentioned.

Yes - by reading the initial reports of daily papers and also reports in auto magazines, the talk centered around THE oil spill, when a car had supposedly spilled oil in the preceding heat 1 event at the beginning of the South Curve.

But there were other views, probably from eye-witnesses, which supposedly stated that a brief drizzle before the event was not the cause and neither was the sand covered oily patch in the South Turn. Therefore my questions in post one.

#23 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 20:06

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Hugo - I am not aware of any Monza fatalities in 1925.

I wasn't too - till I read this article. But I thinks that's an other tread  ;)

#24 humphries

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 21:30

According to "The Motor" report (12 Sept) heavy rain fell all through the night until 7 a.m. on race morning. It remained overcast during the morning with some light drizzle and shorter showers of rain but by the time of the Monza GP at 2 pm the sun had broken through. The track was still damp in places.

The following week, 19 Sept edition, "The Motor" reported that an official statement attributed the accident as to too high speeds coupled with the fact that the track was wet. The statement added " Many thought that the accident was caused by oil deposited by a car that participated in the first heat. This version, however, is excluded because the accidents occurred at a point outside the zone where the presence of oil has been confirmed, and also because other cars participating passed the spot a number of times without inconvenience."

"The Motor" added the comment " Concerning which statement my confrere, Charles Faroux, has put some very pertinent questions to the organizers in L'Auto". Does any TNFer know of these?

If the official judicial enquiry took as long as those concerning the Von Trips and Senna accidents in could have been years after the event before a conclusion was reached.

The bodies of the drivers had a lying-in-state at the Fascist headquarters in Monza. With considerable pomp and circumstance, including a procession around the track halting at the accident spot, the Italian drivers' coffins were eventually taken to Milan and Czaykowski's coffin put on a train for interment in the family tomb at Eure-et-Loire.

Like Hans I would be interested in knowing the result of any enquiry but in the light of what happened above I suspect Mussolini would have wanted a decision that did not reflect badly on the Italian organizers, and he would have got it, I should think.

#25 Doug Nye

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 22:42

'Motor Sport' - October 1933 issue - pages 573-575:

'RHR' reported:

"Altogether the most depressing motor race meeting that I have ever attended...foot-at-a-time crawl in a long procession of cars from Milano to Monza on Sunday morning in the pouring rain...The track itself looked very forbidding under grey skies and a drizzle of rain...the usual array of Italian and Fascist flags...were now rain sodden and drooping. And mud! Mud everywhere - nasty, sticky, yellow-brown mud....the racing cars' tyres looked as though they had been through the Monte Carlo Rally, judging from the amount of mud collected..."

His report on the first Heat of the Gran Premio di Monza continues:

"...in the seventh round on entering the north curve, a cloud of smoke belches forth from the Duesenberg's exhaust and a minute later it coasts into the pits, water dropping from the exhaust pipe. All oil having been lost on the way, the engine had cracked up. The beautiful red machine was reverently wheeled off the track back to the paddock. Czaikowski was certain to win and his pit were hanging out signals to 'take it quietly' as it was obvious that the other cars were outclassed. And so the first heat ended..."

After the parades and cermonial introduction of the drivers before Heat 2, 'RHR' reported:

"Then a hitch occurs - a car departs with a large broom and disappears towards the south curve. I rightly assume that it is going to clear up the oil which the Duesenberg has lost. The public begins to whistle, shout and stamp in the impatient manner which is usual in Italy - until at last an engine starts up, then another until the whole line are going grum-m-p, grum-m-m-p, then whee-e-e they're off!...the cars disappear from sight in the north curve. All heads turn to the south curve..."

He describes how everybody expected either Campari or Borzacchini to lead back past the pits, but no, the red speck which leads turns out to be Balestrero (Alfa Romeo)...

"Balestrero gives the accident sign as he passes....followed by Pellegrini (Alfa Romeo) and Mlle. Helle-Nice (also Alfa Romeo). A minute elapses...Everybody starts to talk at once. The ambulance drives off and one or two officials start running towards the south curve. Minutes seem like hours. People begin to shout 'Notizie!' (news!) but the loud-speakers remain silent...At last the loud-spoeakers give a preliminary 'click'. A metallic voice announces 'A little incident has occurred in the south curve - we will let you know more later'... Boos, whistles and shouts break out anew in greater volume than before. Barbieri is seen returning on foot down the track. Officials, drivers and mechanics run to meet him and the public...increase their clamour.

"At last the loudspeakers click - again the hushed silence. The metallic voice says 'With regard to the slight incident which occurred at the south curve in which Campari, Borzacchini, Castelbarco and Barbieri were involved, we regret to inform you that Campari's condition is very grave, Borzacchini's less grave, and the other two are more or less unhurt'. Spectators chatter like monkeys. Nobody believes the loudspeakers - they feel that things are much worse - rumours have alrady arrived from the other end of the trakc that Campari is dead and that Borzacchini's case seems hopeless. At last an official Press Delagation drives off and after their return it is finally announced that Campari is dead and a few minutes later Borzacchini's death is also announced.

"Matters become further complicated as some of the drivers for the Third Heat refuse to take part on the grounds of the fatal accident. The public however does not agree and wants 'its money's worth' and makes this known by the usual stamps, boos and whistles. A meeting is held by the drivers and after a delay of nearly two hours they finally agree to drive..."

'RHR' relates how he was too busy trying to get details of the accident to see much of this heat, just listing the results. He then tells how:

"At last the 11 starters were lined up for the Final of the Gran Premio di Monza...it was evident thgat the race would lie between lehoux and Czaikowski... Lap after lap Czaikowski led by a few seconds until in the 8th lap Lehoux appeared, slowed his car at the pits, and signalled that an accident had occurred. My interest as a 'journalist' promptly lapsed. Campari - Borzacchini - they were just drivers to me...but Czaikowski was a friend with the same feelings for his Bugatti as I for mine...Then the news came through that he had skidded off the trakc on the same fatal oil-patch as the other cars, at over 180kph - petrol tank exploded - burnt to death - poor fellow...I went back to my hotel without waiting for the finish."

Make of the above what you will...

DCN

#26 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 02:00

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Not an Italian source, but on September 11th 1933 "The Times" printed a longer than normal report, headlined A TRAGIC MOTOR RACE - Three well-known drivers killed. It's bylined "from our own correspondent", so probably an agency report (Reuters?)...

Richard - can you please send me a digi copy? :D

#27 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 02:21

John and Doug, thank you both for in-depth scratching and typing. Over the last weeks I have read quite a bit about this event and your reports from 'The Motor' and 'Motor Sport' are very interesting indeed; especially the amazing difference in those reports of what the cause of the accidents could have been.

#28 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 04:50

Originally posted by humphries
..."The Motor" added the comment " Concerning which statement my confrere, Charles Faroux, has put some very pertinent questions to the organizers in L'Auto". Does any TNFer know of these?...

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE reported in #78 p3 [September 19] that the race promoters circulated on Monday evening [September 11] a communiqué from Milan, which had a very awkward effect. In it the blame of the accidents from Sunday was attributed to the increased speeds by the drivers but not the condition of the track and the fatal oil patches. [No details about the accident were here reported.]

"The well-known French journalist Charles Faroux, a specialist in merciless exposure and a feared critic, had the courage to raise a vehement protest against the communiqué. In this deplorable way the organizers were trying to ease their burden and pass the entire responsibility on to the drivers where nobody could any longer offer resistance. In that way, by blaming the victims with too high a speed, a groundless accusation was put forward and they were being accused of a mistake that was hardly valid.

"It was however remarkable that there was mention about the oil patches, while this was not the case at all beforehand. Also the reference that the other drivers did not have an accident at this curve because they were more careful stood on a very shaky foundation because it could be established that they, after the first accident and in knowledge of the now difficult turn, slowed down considerably and drove at the lower part of the track to avoid the oil patches on the upper part. It was only by a great stroke of luck that Moll had not also become a victim of the corner [in heat 1]. He was lying closely behind the Duesenberg, when it lost some oil and Moll’s Alfa spun three times around [at aprox. 180 km/h] at the spot where Campari crashed later on. In any case, there was proof that the oil was to be blamed to a great part; therefore the promoters were burdened even more so while they were making frantic attempts to come up with counter-evidence in order to exonerate them from liability.

"While the Monza Race Manager Castagneto displayed great prudence and energy, the representative of the government in the R.A.C.I., the Hon. Parisio, revealed a certain lack of competence. The drivers, it was said, received a very unpleasant impression about this and signed the notorious statement with mixed feelings, in which they admitted knowledge of the dangerous condition of the track."

#29 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 05:29

Originally posted by humphries
...I would be interested in knowing the result of any enquiry...

MOTOR UND SPORT #42 p31 [October 15, 1933] wrote: To establish the responsibility of those accidents, the Milan Public Prosecutor had opened a judicial investigation. After thorough examination and test drives by three expert witnesses he had demanded a verdict about the South Turn. According to this investigation the judge had then dismissed any responsibility by the Monza race management or other third parties and had discontinued the proceedings.

This discontinuation was substantiated with a change of track condition during the race, attributed to the well known dangerous South Turn that was traversed at such high speeds by those three victims. Adhesion on the track was however diminished due to oil losses and worn tires [possible reference to slick speed track tires]. The oil patches in the South Turn, caused by a racecar defect, were cleaned by race management and sprinkled with sand. Finally, race management had requested the drivers in writing to be careful in the South Turn.

#30 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 06:07

I am looking for an article in 'The Motor' between September 10, 1933 and the following October 31. I assume the article must have appeared in one of the October issues of 'The Motor', recounting Earl Howe's 1933 season's memories. The Monza Grand Prix is part of it. Howe raced in heat 3 and the final. In the article Earl Howe indicated at the necessity of the crash helmet, which in his view would have saved at least Czaykowski’s life. [As far as I know his Bugatti flipped over in the corner while still on the track. He broke his neck when hitting the track surface. He remained -already dead- in the car, which tumbled over the wall and rested past the small embankment on top of his corpse when everything went up in flames].

I would like to find out in which issue that article appeared or possibly a scan of that story would be really splendid, sent to my address hanse@hawaii.rr.com

#31 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 07:33

Very interesting reading, all of the above.

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Balestrero gives the accident sign as he passes....


What exactly was this accident sign?

#32 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 21:47

In those days a Catholic-style crossing of one's chest became something of an acknowledged sign, accompanied by pointing towards the scene of an incident. Energetic finger twiddling indicating a car spinning or tumbling was another.

'The Autocar' had nobody at the race meeting, and its coverage is very poor - though it espouses the Trossi Duesenberg oil spillage stroy - four gallons of oil from a burst crankcase no less.

In their issue of September 22, 1933, however, they report as follows:

"The Monza Accidents.

"The official reason given by the Italian club for the accident at Monzas tates that the crashes were chiefly due to excessive speed on a certain bend, and occurred partly owing to the track being wet from intermittent rain. They state that the crashes occurred a few metres away from the place where there was so much oil on the track; but in spite of the official announcement one cannot help thinking that the oil had a lot to do with it, though the great speed and light weight of the cars involved undoubtedly made them unusually difficult to handle once they had got into difficulties."

As covered some years ago in a similar thread here on TNF (Twinny - wouldn't it help to combine these threads now?) - the situation was undoubtedly exacerbated by the cars running slick-tread track tyres on the shallow-banked slick track. Neither Campari's Tipo B Monoposto Alfa nor Borzacchini's Maserati 8C-3000 carried front brakes, in order to save weight, and this would certainly have reduced front-end 'bite'. I suspect both cars essentially understeered off the banked lip of the track and were launched into the roll-over accidents which fatally injured both drivers. Campari's Alfa wound up inverted in the bushes flanking the grass verge immediately adjacent to the track-edge, while Borzacchini's Maserati was found right way up.

In his 'Scuderia Ferrari' book Luigi Orsini quotes contemporary leading Italian racing journalist Giovanni Canestrini as reporting that Trossi's Duesenberg was not the culprit. Its smoke-blowing engine failure was actually a piston collapse, permitting oil to burn in the combustion chamber and open cylinder below. Postrace no fewer than 22kg of unspilled oil remained in the car's tank. As further evidence that the Duesenberg was not to blame, Orsini claimed that Canestrini pointed out that after its retirement the rest of the remaining runners in that race Heat completed a further seven laps at high speed without incident on any "freshly spilled" oil. Ho hum - so when and why did Moll execute his publicised spin????? Hans????

DCN

#33 Twin Window

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 21:59

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Twinny - wouldn't it help to combine these threads now?

No problem - providing Hans agrees. Meanwhile, I'll wait to be advised before doing so.

:up:

#34 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 00:07

There was a thread initiated four years ago by Brian O Flaherty about Guy Moll as a topic. This thread later turned to the 1933 Monza Grand Prix and the alleged involvement of Trossi’s Duesenberg. I think this to be the thread Doug is mentioning and yes, it is one of the more interesting threads. I cannot see what will be gained by mixing the two threads but establishing a link appears to be appropriate. So check it out here.

#35 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 07:30

Originally posted by Doug Nye
... when and why did Moll execute his publicised spin?...

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE #77 p2 [September 15,1933] reported about this.
"The causes of the catastrophe."
"...The Duesenberg from Count Trossi had suffered a –as was generally known– broken oil pipe after the eighth lap, so that oil was spilled over the course. The competitors noticed, when passing through, that especially large oil spills were in the Vedano-North Turn [sic] and the young Frenchman Moll protested thereupon to the race management." [After the race]
"Unfortunately... the cleanup was in no way at all successful..."

Moll's triple spin was reported in AUTOMOBIL-REVUE #78 p3 [September 19, 1933] as mentioned in my above post 28, third paragraph. However, by reading this article, it is not absolutely clear to me if Moll’s spin was a quote out of the Charles Faroux article or just new information added by the Journalist writing for AUTOMOBIL-REVUE. In any event, I do not believe that this was an invention by either Charles Faroux or the A.R. journalist.

I don't know if Earl Howe mentions Guy Moll in his memoirs. In his article, Howe wrote to the effect that Whitney Straight had come to him after the first heat to make him aware of large oil patches on the track in that notorious turn. Whitney Straight warned Howe emphatically about that spot; other drivers had also told him about it.

I hope someone can come up here with that Earl Howe article out of 'The Motor'. Another possibility would be to locate the Charles Faroux article in 'l'Auto' where he normally expressed his views, I believe.

#36 humphries

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:25

Hans

I have Howe's seasonal review and will scan it and forward it as soon as possible.

John

#37 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 21:25

John, thank you very much.

I quickly read the last page for now but the entire article should be of great interest. Will read the whole story after work. :D