95 replies to this topic

[RTH]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
There was no indication in the letter that Baxter's car looked anything other than bog standard .... certainly not with a rear engine or with any alteration to the driving position.

I read that and it is so unlikely it must surely have been a mis-quotation for Austin Healey Sprite . Implying bigger and/or modified. The 3000 being a very long, very heavy ex-truck engine which whatever way you look at it would have monopolised the passenger compartment.

[Stoatspeed]

I think this Healey 3000 engine story is oddly connected to the anecdote in an earlier post about RB's embrassment at having to talk up the virtues of the Aurtin 3-litre
Maybe he really DID like the car??? "I liked this car so much I bought the engine .." ... with apologies to Victor Kiam, for those that remember the Remington shaver ads!
Does anyone have pictures of the BVRT car? ... sounds like one of the craziest ideas ever .... or ... well ... I suppose you could loosely describe a Metro 6R4 as the same idea, but with 4 wheel drive to keep it all in some kind of order!
Dave

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Intriguing snippet in a letter to today's Independent, following up on their obituary of him. Apparently Raymond ran a Mini with a Healey 3000 engine fitted? Sounds a liitle unlikely to me .... could you really shoehorn a BMC 3-litre into a Mini's engine bay?

I saw that too, and thought it a bit unlikely. Did they mean a Morris Minor with Healey 3000 engine - I've heard of one of those in the 60s. I think it was a development car of some kind, produced by the Healeys.

For information on Harry Ratcliffe and the Mini-Buick, have a look at the 60's tuning section in:

www.mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by RTH


I read that and it is so unlikely it must surely have been a mis-quotation for Austin Healey Sprite . Implying bigger and/or modified.

That was what I figured too. But a standard Sprite engine wouldn't be any faster than a Cooper S. ISTR some rallying S's running at about 1430cc?

[RTH]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Don't forget that the legendary Harry Ratcliffe , BVRT, British Vita etc from Littleborough, fitted a Buick 3.5litre in the back of a Cooper S driving through the front wheels @12". Not much good on the circuit apparently, and the man who drove it on the road round Lancaster told me it was hilarious on the road. Mid 60s I think. Any photos anyone? I have a shot of his Minor 1000 , glassfibre wings etc when Andy Barton had it the following year.

Roger Lund

I remember Jeff Goodliffe in a British Vita very low line minisprint hill climbing but that car had an 8 port 1300 either on 4 Amals or lucas injection. But no memory of the configuration you mention are there pictures somewhere ?

Nic Mann had a 1960 Morris Minor fitted with a turbocharged Rover/Buick V8 producing over 400 BHP on the hills.

[RTH]

Originally posted by ian senior



For information on Harry Ratcliffe and the Mini-Buick, have a look at the 60's tuning section in:

www.mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk

What an amazing website that is ! Indeed it is there.

[Alan Cox]

Agreed, Richard. What a brilliant website.

[roger ellis]

I realise we are well OT by bringing in Harry Ratcliffe to a Raymond Baxter tribute, but as someone who had a few BRT links ( tenuous I admit ) perhaps I could nail this Mini/ Morris Minor/ 3000 conundrum by explaining that in the early 60s Harry Ratcliffe produced a frog eye Sprite with a Jaguar XK engine for a customer.

I was a frequent caller to Harry's emporium in those days & there was always something interesting/ exciting to look at.

[RTH]

Originally posted by roger ellis
....................... perhaps I could nail this Mini/ Morris Minor/ 3000 conundrum by explaining that in the early 60s Harry Ratcliffe produced a frog eye Sprite with a Jaguar XK engine for a customer.

Well I would like to see a photo of that engine bay .

You may remember a tuner offered a Mk4 Sprite with a 1600 crossflow Ford engine and that was a real squeeze at the time.

The XK engine is very tall and very long and very heavy. Mick Hill only just managed to get one in to his racing Ford Anglia 'The Janglia ' and in comparison with a sprite that had a tall engine bay and half the engine was inside the car '

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by roger ellis
I realise we are well OT by bringing in Harry Ratcliffe to a Raymond Baxter tribute,

I was a frequent caller to Harry's emporium in those days & there was always something interesting/ exciting to look at.

I am sure the great Mr Baxter would welcome enthusiasts' enthusiasm for and appreciation of the talents of Harry. I recall 1961-ish he was developing a fuel injection set up for the Minor 1000, but found two Webers easier and better. He always worked to the old adage that if your car was not ready when you set off for the race meeting you would be wasting your time.

I was fortunate enough to meet Rupert Jones in the late 80s and he regaled me with accounts of Harry, whom I first saw at Rufforth in 1961, and BVRT, for whom the Rev. was PR man, and for whom he drove a twin Webered Lada as a road car for development of the Lada rally series. Quite a hotrod IIRC.

RL

[ensign14]

Heads up - BBC2 tonight, 7.30, showing a half-hour tribute.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by ensign14
Heads up - BBC2 tonight, 7.30, showing a half-hour tribute.

Only in England and Wales at that time though. 11.20 in Northern Ireland, but not in Scotland at all, apparently. If you have Sky you can find BBC2 regional feeds starting at channel 990.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by ensign14
Heads up - BBC2 tonight, 7.30, showing a half-hour tribute.

Any volunteers to tape it? I'll pay the postage and packing to Oz ... and of course, the cost of the tape.

[Mal9444]

Vanwall

I'll ask my wife to record it for me (you don't think I know how to work the bl**dy thing do you?)

Send me an email with your postal details.

[Vitesse2]

A very good and affectionate tribute. Started with his racing commentaries including the famous Stewart "agricultural business" clip. What was intriguing was what seemed to be a short section of the original BBC footage of Monaco 1967 - I thought that was "lost"? Gary?

[kayemod]

You're right, it was footage from Monaco 1967. but didn't they say it was 1951 on the caption?

[2F-001]

Originally posted by kayemod
You're right, it was footage from Monaco 1967. but didn't they say it was 1951 on the caption?

Are you thinking that it's only "lost" because someone copied an incorrect date onto the can?

And, yes, I thought the programme was well done too.

[Gary C]

'short section of the original BBC footage of Monaco 1967 - I thought that was "lost"? Gary?'
They have small clips of certain things, as for whole races.....no way!!

[Rockford]

Nicely done, though half an hour too short. I was also pretty shocked about the Monaco caption cock-up (don't people bother to double-check anymore?) but I soon recovered. Barbara Flynn as narrator was an added bonus as well.

Very moving, and a stark contrast in these days of Clarkson and Allen.

[Cirrus]

I know that http://www.bbc.co.uk behaves differently depending upon where you are in the world, but a brief tribute to Raymond Baxter is available if you type "baxter" into the search box on the top right of tha homepage, and then select "TV Presenter Baxter Dies" on the right. It gives a good feel for his presenting style, and all round "Nice Bloke" persona.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Vanwall


Any volunteers to tape it? I'll pay the postage and packing to Oz ... and of course, the cost of the tape.

I've got it off of my Sky+ onto the Hard Drive of the DVD recorder, now I've got to figure out how to get it onto a DVD! If you have no luck I will persevere and try and get it onto my PC eventually - anyone know software that will rip it from a DVD into a WMV or similar that I could email/torrent out to people? If so please PM me.

And yes a very good little tribute, lovely when he got his O.B.E., the delight on his face. Well deserved too, a real icon as James May said.

[ensign14]

Yeah, I'd like to see it as circumstances worked against me...

[Bernard]

Just returned from hols but saw the prog which was a nice and affectionate tribute .Also watched Grand Prix DVD which has a quick cameo of Raymond interviewing at Brands so that wonderful voice is kept for posterity in my archives

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by ghinzani

...anyone know software that will rip it from a DVD into a WMV or similar that I could email/torrent out to people?

Geek!

[MonzaDriver]

I've heard the comments of Raymond Baxter on youtube,
on the Silverstone F1 73 footage, well I understood almost every words, the first time.
Very clear to understand also for an Italian, and beautiful to hear.
But you British are very lucky on this matter,
I know that also James Hunt's comments were great to hear.

MonzaDriver.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Geek!

Wheres the middle finger icon thingy? Oh yes I remember not being able to find it when discussing how to proctascope the good Dr P..... anyway I have now resorted to reading the manual and have the Baxter prog on DVD. Anybody know how I rip that off onto my PC say into an .avi file? That would be easier to upload to anybody who wants to see it via a Torrent. If not I can cut it onto DVD, for those who have PM'ed and asked me I'l get some blank discs and have a go at it.

[Gary Davies]

Mal9444 very kindly offered to send me a tape on the BBC tribute to Raymond. It arrived yesterday and I've just looked at it. What a wonderful reminder of a wonderful life. As Tony Dron remarked on the tribute, "...he represented something very decent from the past, that seems to be slipping away."

Thank you Malcolm.

BTW, if there are any Adelaide-based TNFers who have an interest in Raymond Baxter's life and times, I'd be happy to meet over a jar and loan the tape.

[Mal9444]

Vanwall
I'm delighted it worked!

[Bernard]

Yes Vanwall that phrase stuck with me, abslolutely right that comment

[Geoff E]

Now that the "Tomorrow's World" archive has appeared online, there are more opportunities to see (and hear) RB http://news.bbc.co.u...000/8253970.stm

Warning: James Burke is also featured.

Edited by Geoff E, 16 September 2009 - 10:32.

[Vitesse2]

To be recalled with great respect - Roland Thaxter - the voice of motor racing, and of the Farnborough Airshow, and of Telstar's first transAtlantic transmission, and early spaceflight and so much more through my formative years, Monte Carlo Rally competitor, flyer, all-round professional broadcaster, and in harness at Goodwood commentating on the Spitfire displays and Ray Hanna tribute the day before he finally entered hospital. How many other pilots survived into the 21st century who ever saw a V2 lifting-off from woodland through the windscreen of their Spitfire? Sincere condolences to his family and friends.

Fly well, sir ... and thank you.

DCN

A long time on, but a couple of days ago I discovered that all seven parts* of the excellent old (1977) BBC series Secret War are now available on YouTube. Apart from the fact that the whole thing demonstrates how documentary television should be done (Touch-feely? Nah! Irrelevant waffle? Nope! Facts? YES!), episode 3 on the V-weapons features dear old Raymond sitting on the wing of a Spitfire and telling the story of seeing that V2 launch in his own words. One thing I'd either forgotten or never knew was that one of his wingmen actually fired at the bloody thing as it lifted off and went through his gunsights!

 

* The series is only six parts, but there's a Battle of the Atlantic documentary tagged on as well.

[Gary Davies]

Thank you, Richard. An excellent piece of info. Noted!

[swintex]

On the Tomorrow's World theme… Archive on 4 on BBC Radio 4 last night… 

 

 

 

Now, on the programme's 50th Anniversary, James Burke - a reporter on the show from 1966-1972 - looks at how it dealt with the often huge changes that occurred in the time from when it was first broadcast, and assesses what it says about our ability to see what's around the corner.

 

I think it was probably quite interesting, but the gardener had just returned from RHS Hampton Court Flower Show about 15 minutes before it came on air, so I didn't hear much of it 

 

One for the iPlayer I think.

 

Richard

[Vitesse2]

Some twerp of a reporter on BBC Breakfast has just told me Hawker Hurricanes are made of wood ... I can hear Raymond spinning in his grave ...

[AAGR]

I shall never forget commentating at a massive Rootes Group clubs day at Blenheim Palace where Raymond (as an ex-works-rally-team co-driver) was present.

 

  Hearing that we were promised a Spitfire flying display at lunchtime, he smiled politely but persuasively at me and asked if he might commentate ?

 

  I was honoured to hand over, his commentary was superb, and at the end he told the crowd, almost as an aside, that he had actually flown that particular Spitfire himself !

 

  What a lovely man he was.

 

AAGR

[kayemod]

  What a lovely man he was.

 

AAGR

 

A skilled professional undoubtedly, charming when he wanted to be, but "A lovely man?" How many here have read his biography Tales of my time, co-written with Tony Dron? In that book, which presumably attempts to reveal his best aspects, he doesn't come across as all that nice at all. I was lent this book by a friend, with the comment "I'm saying nothing about this, but tell me what you think when you've finished it". This I did, and it shattered every illusion I'd ever had about the man, especially his relation with some of his family, and the same for my friend, Tony Dron does Baxter no favours at all. I know it's not all that nice to speak ill of the dead, and maybe I'm not the best judge of character, I met Louis Stanley several times and rather liked the pompous old fool, so who am I to judge, but I have spoken to a producer friend who worked with RB at the BBC, he didn't like him much either, for all kinds of reasons.

 

Quite unconnected, but my Mother knew another BBC luminary, star of countless TV and Radio programmes, always light-hearted, smiling and avuncular, but I'm not giving any more clues as he's not dead yet. Mum thought he was absolutely awful, he switched his smile and pleasant personality on and off as required, but she said he was horrible to work with. He often spent weekends at a local rich person's retreat, Chewton Glen on the edge of the New Forest. After this man and his wife left, the management used to distribute champagne to the staff as a reward for putting up with him and his demands. Nothing at all to do with Raymond Baxter of course, but it should remind us that people are often very different from the way they appear on the surface.

 

As I said, I may not be the best judge of character, and I never met Raymond Baxter, but has anyone else read the book?

[Doug Nye]

Not me - but I will now...

 

DCN  

[kayemod]

Not me - but I will now...

 

DCN  

 

£0.01 on Amazon Doug, and that's for the hardback, choice of a dozen or so.

 

I really haven't got anything at all against the late Raymond, like most of us I quite enjoyed most of his commentaries & other TV contributions, but what was he really like? I have nothing but Tales of my Time to go on, so decide for yourself, but coming from respected writer Tony Dron in collaboration with RB himself, I would think it's a reliable picture, though I'm surprised that Raymond allowed it to appear in the form it did. Maybe self-delusion played a part, he comes across as "Pleased with himself" personified. I suspect that the two really didn't get on all that well, and Tony D decided to puncture the Baxter balloon with his writing.

[RS2000]

I wouldn't disagree with "pleased with himself". He used to visit a neighbour who was a BEA captain. As a child I used to play with model cars with the neighbour's son and on odd occasion with Graham, RB's son, visiting them. RB lived in Colnbrook then, which shows how long ago it was as no one of means would choose to live so close to Heathrow now...

Probably a WW2 RAF thing. Brave men are either martinets in the Gibson mould or display the odd childish tendency to relax the tension. Not all lose it. 

[AAGR]

Interesting to note that most of the criticism of Raymond Baxter in this thread comes from people who never met him, never shared a 'live' occasion with him, or had the pleasure of dining with him.

 

  Well, I did - often - (and even worked in the same rally teams as he did), and I can only repeat that he was a great guy ....

 

AAGR

Edited by AAGR, 13 July 2015 - 08:35.

[foxyracer]

I have a copy of Tales of My Time and read it from cover to cover.  I formed a quite different view to Kayemod but maybe I am not so perceptive.

[Morris S]

I seem to recall a story of some of the fellow members of the BMC rally team removing one of the wheels of his car parked outside the hotel for a giggle? A few years ago I bought a raft of paperwork from a certain auction site which amounted to correspondence to and from some of the competitors and team managers taking part in his 'Mini Monte' staged at a snowbound Brands Hatch in 1963, plus BBC correspondence and all his handwritten lap times and final results from the day.

[Alan Lewis]

Today is the centenary of the birth of Raymond Baxter.

[RS2000]

Today is the centenary of the birth of Raymond Baxter.

 

I hadn't realised that. By coincidence I have just driven home along the B road that runs on part of the runway of the former RAF Atcham, the then USAAF base where RB met his wife at a party in WW2. 

Atcham was the US equivalent of an RAF OTU, where pilots were trained to fight with the aircraft (mostly P47 Thunderbolts in this case) rather than just to convert to the type. RB was then an instructor at the RAF Spitfire OTU nearby between his operational tours.

[Geoff E]

In the 1939 Register, Baxter was a clerk with the Metropolitan Water Board.

[Dipster]

The only thing I know about Raymond Baxter is that I went the the same school as he did although several decades later. The school were very proud of the fact.