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Holden EH S4 1963, 1964


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#1 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 02:48

Here is a thread dedicated to one of the first serious GMH efforts at Motorsport in Australia.

Nomenclature: HOLDEN 179M-S4 SPECIAL SEDAN, EH/225 (S4) SEP 1963 ONLY 126 BUILT, EH 225 - Special sedan (Plus the very rare S4 Special Sedan)

FUEL TANK (S4) ... 12 GALLONS

The S4 had a few features that were later included on other models such as a brake booster and there were also rumours that Holden was working on an S22 EH but it never came about. The S4, however it may have lacked, still showed that with the new Red Motor, Holden was committed to improving their cars with performance in mind.

EH 225 - Special sedan (Plus the very rare S4 Special Sedan)

Even more potent were the 120 'S4' cars built to contest the 1963 Bathurst 500. Although several of them lost time after breaking wheels, the entry of Frank Morgan and Ralph Sach finished second outright behind the Cortina GT of Harry Firth and Bob Jane. An S4 tested by 'Wheels' magazine for its December 1963 issue reached166km/h.

S4s also contested touring car events during 1964; those consistently quickest being the entries of Brian Muir and Norm Beechey. However, the car became redundant as front-running drivers switched to V8s and EHs didn't again feature prominently on the racetrack until the emergence of an Appendix J historic category during the 1980s.

www.ehholden.com.au

http://www.ejehclubq...dex.asp?page=24

[/url]http://www.ejehclubq...dex.asp?page=24[/url]

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 03:14

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Here is a thread dedicated to one of the first serious GMH efforts at Motorsport in Australia.

Nomenclature: HOLDEN 179M-S4 SPECIAL SEDAN, EH/225 (S4) SEP 1963 ONLY 126 BUILT, EH 225 - Special sedan (Plus the very rare S4 Special Sedan)

FUEL TANK (S4) ... 12 GALLONS

The S4 had a few features that were later included on other models such as a brake booster and there were also rumours that Holden was working on an S22 EH but it never came about. The S4, however it may have lacked, still showed that with the new Red Motor, Holden was committed to improving their cars with performance in mind.

EH 225 - Special sedan (Plus the very rare S4 Special Sedan)

Even more potent were the 120 'S4' cars built to contest the 1963 Bathurst 500. Although several of them lost time after breaking wheels, the entry of Frank Morgan and Ralph Sach finished second outright behind the Cortina GT of Harry Firth and Bob Jane. An S4 tested by 'Wheels' magazine for its December 1963 issue reached166km/h.

S4s also contested touring car events during 1964; those consistently quickest being the entries of Brian Muir and Norm Beechey. However, the car became redundant as front-running drivers switched to V8s and EHs didn't again feature prominently on the racetrack until the emergence of an Appendix J historic category during the 1980s.

www.ehholden.com.au

http://www.ejehclubq...dex.asp?page=24

http://www.ejehclubq...dex.asp?page=24


I suspect that the only S4s that raced in Appendix J (1964) were the Beechey and Muir cars...

All S4s were built prior to August 1963.

#3 cosworth bdg

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 03:45

Originally posted by Ray Bell


I suspect that the only S4s that raced in Appendix J (1964) were the Beechey and Muir cars...

All S4s were built prior to August 1963.

:wave: :clap: :clap:

#4 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 06:25

Stan Starcvevich's EH here in WA was always said to be an S4. But was it, I wonder. i must ask Stan next time I see him.

#5 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 06:29

And this is Stan, EH, in full cry, Caversham.

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#6 David McKinney

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:31

I'm pretty sure we had an S4 in New Zealand too, though whether or not it really was I never bothered to discover.
Just how rare were they?

BTW, in NZ at least the EH was always advertised as having "more horses". We therefore concluded that EH must stand for Extra Horses :lol:

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:33

I'm pretty sure we had an S4 in New Zealand too, though whether or not it really was I never bothered to discover/
Just how rare were they?

#8 cosworth bdg

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 08:41

Very rare

#9 Pat Clarke

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:31

Quote..."And this is Stan, EH, in full cry, Caversham."

Pardon me, but I have to ask.
Was Stan 'The Man' race number 11 or 111? :cool:
Guess it depends on whether the background is black or white.
A good example of why rules had to be put in place for race numbers
Regards to all
Pat

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:38

Originally posted by Terry Walker
And this is Stan, EH, in full cry, Caversham.

Posted Image


As can be plainly seen... there are no chrome strips along the side of the car... therefore it must be a Standard model. Not a Special.

All S4s were Specials. Otherwise they wouldn't have been eligible for Bathurst.

#11 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:56

Well, that's good news, Ray, because the Starcey car has been so extensively and radically modified over the years (last seen, it was a 2-door!) that if it WAS a genny S4 it would have been a serious loss.

I checked all my pics of Starcey's EH, back to its earliest appearance. No chrome strip.

#12 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:57

Oh-missed a post.

Stan was No 111. When he raced his sporty, it was named the SS111: his initials and race number.

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:04

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Well, that's good news, Ray, because the Starcey car has been so extensively and radically modified over the years (last seen, it was a 2-door!) that if it WAS a genny S4 it would have been a serious loss.....


I knew that...

It raced at an Easter Bathurst, you might recall. But not in the 500.

#14 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:58

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Well, that's good news, Ray, because the Starcey car has been so extensively and radically modified over the years (last seen, it was a 2-door!) that if it WAS a genny S4 it would have been a serious loss.

I checked all my pics of Starcey's EH, back to its earliest appearance. No chrome strip.


Terry....it may well have been a "genny S4"....Stan wouldn't have been the first racer to personalise his car in some way....it ain't hard to remove chrome strips. He also appears to have removed the chrome from above the windows (gutter strips).

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 09:19

But he didn't Mick... don't you see?

His car was always a Standard model. He didn't personalise it, he simply bought a Standard model with 179 and manual box when they came out (later in 1963). It made absolutely no difference whether a car was an S4 or a regular 179M in Appendix J or Improved Touring, the items used in the S4 that were of advantage could be fitted to the 179M for those categories anyway.

He gained the benefit of the lighter weight too...

#16 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:47

Originally posted by Ray Bell
But he didn't Mick... don't you see?

His car was always a Standard model. He didn't personalise it, he simply bought a Standard model with 179 and manual box when they came out (later in 1963). It made absolutely no difference whether a car was an S4 or a regular 179M in Appendix J or Improved Touring, the items used in the S4 that were of advantage could be fitted to the 179M for those categories anyway.

He gained the benefit of the lighter weight too...


No Raymond...I don't see...in fact, I wasn't even looking!! there are none so blind :rolleyes:

Why would you think I would know all the ins and outs of a ducks guts about Stans car??

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:49

Because two of us here have given you the information...

#18 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:05

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Because two of us here have given you the information...


Hmmmmm the Bureau of Sadisdics might argue with you there......

I would love to hear more about the S4s from KB, Spencer Martin, Brian Muir, Reynolds, Morgan, Sachs....but mostly from the people who built the damn things :)

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:34

Okay, what do you need to know?

KB is a member here, send him an e.mail or PM. But remember, he only raced one at Bathurst, where they were required to race as they came off the assembly line.

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#20 cosworth bdg

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 02:35

Just remember that Group N historic touring cars ,S4 EH'S , included are fakes and look alikes and that is all cars, genuine cars are not running around race tracks to be damaged and leant on.

#21 seldo

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 06:15

When I was a young bloke a mate of mine had a genuine EH S4 Special (white/red) which he'd managed to secure since he had a relative at Stacks in Sydney. For some perverse reason he always preferred that I drove while he passengered as we terrorised the streets of Sydney's eastern suburbs (something I would of course frown on today...;)) But from memory, the EH could only be distinguished externally by having a bit of the bigger fuel tank hanging slightly below the bottom of the rear guard on the LHS(?). It sat about an inch lower, had a slightly faster steering box (by about 1/2 turn) and under the bonnet had a distinctive S4 stencilled on the steering box. It also had a brake-booster, slightly wider or heavier front brake drums from the ute, sintered iron lings, bigger jets in the carby, and the lower diff from the ute (was it 3.5:1?). In its day it actually went ok and we had a lot of fun it ...

#22 Paul Newby

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 07:04

I recall that respected journalist Joe Kenwright wrote a detailed treatise on the EH S4 in a 2005 copy of Australian Muscle Car (don't ask me which one as I'm at work.) If you haven't seen it, its worth searching out.

Its one aspect of 60's touring car racing that Harry Firth can't argue about.... :rotfl:

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 07:40

Originally posted by seldo
When I was a young bloke a mate of mine had a genuine EH S4 Special (white/red) which he'd managed to secure since he had a relative at Stacks in Sydney. For some perverse reason he always preferred that I drove while he passengered as we terrorised the streets of Sydney's eastern suburbs (something I would of course frown on today...;)) But from memory, the EH could only be distinguished externally by having a bit of the bigger fuel tank hanging slightly below the bottom of the rear guard on the LHS(?). It sat about an inch lower, had a slightly faster steering box (by about 1/2 turn) and under the bonnet had a distinctive S4 stencilled on the steering box. It also had a brake-booster, slightly wider or heavier front brake drums from the ute, sintered iron lings, bigger jets in the carby, and the lower diff from the ute (was it 3.5:1?). In its day it actually went ok and we had a lot of fun it ...


The steering box was standard issue EJ, as I recall. They slowed the steering down with the model change to the EH...

I thought the tank expansion was all upwards, though. And that the brake drums were the same. I feel sure that only the top of the fuel tank was changed, but maybe I'm getting confused as that's how the XU-1 was done.

The 3.55:1 diff was from the automatics, was it not? It was possibly also used in utes, but at the time all the magazine articles said it was from the auto.

It had no round speedo or tacho, did it?

#24 seldo

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:07

Originally posted by Ray Bell


The steering box was standard issue EJ, as I recall. They slowed the steering down with the model change to the EH...

I thought the tank expansion was all upwards, though. And that the brake drums were the same. I feel sure that only the top of the fuel tank was changed, but maybe I'm getting confused as that's how the XU-1 was done.

The 3.55:1 diff was from the automatics, was it not? It was possibly also used in utes, but at the time all the magazine articles said it was from the auto.

It had no round speedo or tacho, did it?

It may well have had the EJ sourced steering box, but I'm sure it was a bit faster than the normal EH box and I do recall that it had S4 stencilled on the top plate of the box..
Fuel tank was definitely visible externally - it was the only point of external difference and hung down like a spare-wheel well on one side. I think it was only the front drums that were different - from the ute and they were I think a fraction wider - not that it made any significant difference - it still didn't stop.... Diff may also have been used in the autos as well as the ute and was, as you say, 3.55, but there was no difference in instrumentation.

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:26

Thanks David...

Now do you think you can go to the 'Introduce yourself!' thread at the top of the page?

#26 seldo

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 02:40

Ermm...is that a hint Ray?;) I'm not very good at that sort of thing.

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 03:35

Put your best glasses on and get stuck into it!

#28 cavvy

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 12:43

Saw Paul Stubber punt an EH at the Phillip Island historics a few years back - thought it was ex Warren Matthews (TNF contributor) & the Starcevich car.

#29 Terry Walker

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 05:20

The ex Starcevich car was subsequently raced by TNFer Warren Matthews, ending its career as a lightweight sports sedan, 2 doors. If you wanted an historic EH you'd be better starting from scratch.

#30 cosworth bdg

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 05:34

Originally posted by Terry Walker
The ex Starcevich car was subsequently raced by TNFer Warren Matthews, ending its career as a lightweight sports sedan, 2 doors. If you wanted an historic EH you'd be better starting from scratch.

Agree...

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:29

How about this?

0315_S4manual.jpg

Lee, it seems you were quite correct about the bellhousing and gearbox housing, though the clutch plate size didn't change.

It seems that they reduced the clutch lining area by increasing the inside diameter by a quarter of an inch or a little more which gave more friction to the remaining lining area. A different clutch cover with beefing up apparent in the wording.

No mention of the steering box here. The radiator used the larger core of the automatic 179 Premier models but didn't have the autos' cooling tubes in the bottom tank. A different bush in the back of the gearbox, I've never heard mention of that before.

There's also no mention of brake linings, presumably these varied in production (and supply) anyway and different ones could be specified. But it does mention that the brakes were the same as all EHs. No different size for utes.

The larger tailshaft is mentioned, also the differential hemisphere housing being made from nodular iron.

Of interest, when Brian Muir wore out his sintered iron linings he couldn't get replacements from GM-H, he had to order them through a Pontiac dealer in Honolulu, they were a Tempest option.

#32 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:35

How about this?

0315_S4manual.jpg

Lee, it seems you were quite correct about the bellhousing and gearbox housing, though the clutch plate size didn't change.

It seems that they reduced the clutch lining area by increasing the inside diameter by a quarter of an inch or a little more which gave more friction to the remaining lining area. A different clutch cover with beefing up apparent in the wording.

No mention of the steering box here. The radiator used the larger core of the automatic 179 Premier models but didn't have the autos' cooling tubes in the bottom tank. A different bush in the back of the gearbox, I've never heard mention of that before.

There's also no mention of brake linings, presumably these varied in production (and supply) anyway and different ones could be specified. But it does mention that the brakes were the same as all EHs. No different size for utes.

The larger tailshaft is mentioned, also the differential hemisphere housing being made from nodular iron.

Of interest, when Brian Muir wore out his sintered iron linings he couldn't get replacements from GM-H, he had to order them through a Pontiac dealer in Honolulu, they were a Tempest option.

As I have said before. EH S4 was the first to use the 8.6" clutch that became standard on the subsequent 179 manual cars, as was the gearbox. And bigger bellhousing. That was used on EH 179.149 had a 8" clutch. And the EJ gearbox. Most S4 parts became std on the soon to be common 179M EH. Not many had a booster though. It was available as a dealer option.

I had a EH S4. Which I bought as a normal EH. Only reading the supplement that I learnt what is was. Big tank, big brakes, booster and the gearbox no prefixed S4. Though that may well have continued on on EH 179s.

There is no mention in that supplement of the wider front brakes. Which they did have. As did utes and vans. Which I have owned too.Mine did and it was  a trouble getting linings. They used HD linings for mine and they were bonded. Not the original sintered metal though. I dont think at that time anyone knew. 

In later years I did. Dead when cold. Excellent when warm. And damned expensive.On the BACK of the Sports Sedan it served really well and out performed the discs I fitted. But disc pads were a quarter of the cost and lasted twice as long. 


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 March 2015 - 05:37.


#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 13:14

You don't notice, do you?

The manual says all the brakes were the same. All EH models. With the exception of the spring arrangement on the S4 models.

And Ray Eldershaw assures me the clutch plate was no larger, he used the regular 149 clutch plates when he needed replacements.

Basically everyone who knew that an S4 existed back in the day knew they had sintered linings. Today, of course, most people know they had discs instead.

#34 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 13:18

Notice also the tool kit, designed especially for the Bathurst race...

A pair of multi-grips instead of pliers, a wheel brace and a shifting spanner. The only work that could be done on the car for the first 100 miles or so had to be done by the driver with tools carried, hence the need for these things.

#35 Ian G

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 22:33

I read & heard over the years that the S-4 used the Brakes & Radiator from the Taxi pack but it looks like that may be a Furphy.

 

http://holden.net.au...ar-history.html


Edited by Ian G, 03 March 2015 - 22:34.


#36 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 23:04

You don't notice, do you?

The manual says all the brakes were the same. All EH models. With the exception of the spring arrangement on the S4 models.

And Ray Eldershaw assures me the clutch plate was no larger, he used the regular 149 clutch plates when he needed replacements.

Basically everyone who knew that an S4 existed back in the day knew they had sintered linings. Today, of course, most people know they had discs instead.

Ray, I have owned these things. I have serviced and modified these Holdens for over 40 years. I just might bloody well know!

 

The clutch is bigger 8.6" to 8". The bellhousing is bigger. The 179 clutch is VERY close inside the small b/h. The joke of all this is the 179 clutch fitted inside a early box bellhousing.

My copy of the supplement did mention the 1/2? wider front shoes. That some [not all] commercials used. From memory the shoes  go inwards so they are different backing plates. The section  above only mentions different hold down clips. Not the shoe material.

 

In the 70s I did not know that EH had different material. Just that they were worn out and could not get changeover shoes. I did know it was an S4 with wider brakes though. And the EH van I owned a bit later. I had to get my shoes relined and they used HD linings which are about the same size,, and 10" still. At a guess they had been relined before. The car had been sprinted and hillclimbed before I bought it. which I found out after! Though it was sort of a hottie with twin carbs, extractors, better shocks and [then] huge 7" wide rims with SP41s. 


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 March 2015 - 23:33.


#37 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 23:28

And just for the 'experts' a history of Holden 6 clutches. 

Grey motor 7 or 7.5" . I have had too many sleeps too remember!!

149 EH and probably HD 149 too. 8"

66 on red motor cars. And EH HD 179 8.6". Standardisation made production line sense I am sure.

HQ on 1 ton 8.6" with a heavy duty diafram  and a wider lining [smaller inside PCD]. The heavy diafram was reputedly used in HK on186/ 202 commercials too.

Flywheel pattern for all above clutches is all the same.

VC on aprox 9" clutch and the bolt pattern was enlarged. These flywheels are about 6 lbs lighter to comensate for the bigger clutch and heavier [15lb] counterweighted crank. [3.3 only] And they foul inside the red motor bellhousing too. 

Aftermarket used the HD diafram for heavy duty clutches but with the standard narrower linings as they are a good deal lighter. There was dual diafram pressure plates too. They break clutch cables and are heavy to use. And again heavy. Hydraulic actuation is best on these.

 

Clutch driven plate had several different splines to suit the relevant gearbox. 48-HK crunch boxes had one spline. Aussie 3 and 4 speed plus Saginaw had a larger one. Opel 4 speed was different again. Then in Commodore there was one for the Philipino 4 speed and 1 for the small BW 5 speed used in VH. Change gearboxes styles and change the clutch plate!

 

As an aside. For some reason LC LJ Toranas often have clutch shudder in reverse. Often really bad! I have never worked out why. I have used one said clutch into a cheapy used car HQ and it had no shudder at all.

 

A piece of history too. Left drive Holden all had hydraulic clutches inc Torana. They used bracket 7429637 [nla] and a grey motor slave cylinder. This made the all sychro [3&4speed] conversions easier in all early Holdens.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 March 2015 - 23:45.


#38 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:29

Lee, the topic is solely about the S4...

The manual says it had a heavier pressure plate that needed a bigger bellhousing, nothing more about the clutch.

Please keep this thread to discussion about original S4 stuff.

#39 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:35

Originally posted by Ian G
I read & heard over the years that the S-4 used the Brakes & Radiator from the Taxi pack but it looks like that may be a Furphy.


They would have been useless on taxis when cold, and a some taxi use would have been from cold. The radiator, as explained, is from the 179 Premiers with the auto trans cooler tubing not fitted to the bottom tank.
 

http://holden.net.au...ar-history.html


If there's anything on that site about the S4 I didn't find it.

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#40 Ian G

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:49

Wrong link Ray,i have a Internet folder i've built up over the last 15 years on Holden(& BMC Oz.),i'll try & find the S4 one.



#41 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 23:59

They would have been useless on taxis when cold, and a some taxi use would have been from cold. The radiator, as explained, is from the 179 Premiers with the auto trans cooler tubing not fitted to the bottom tank.
 

If there's anything on that site about the S4 I didn't find it.

All 179 EH used the big radiator. As I have said before upon release EH 179 only came auto. And not just Prems but all levels. 

The EH had many variations. EK EJ EH autos had a different floor! With a larger tunnel. Utes and vans too and 90% of them were manual. Radiators were different for 149 and 179 as were the gearboxes too. And bellhousings and clutches. Tailshafts too were different for 149 and 179 manual cars. 

It never really made sense, it must have been more expensive to manufacture with all the different variations than using the same item for all. 

HD still used the small gearbox with 149 but the body and radiator etc were the same as was HR on



#42 Ian G

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 03:59

I haven't got any links that haven't already been covered here,this is one that sold for $30,000,its been mentioned elsewhere on this Forum before but i'll put a link in this Thread for future reference.

 

 

http://australianmus...63-eh-holden-s4

 

 

A few photos of what Lee is talking about,they talk about a 'Taxi Pack' as regards the G/box but i can't find the page referring to the EH Brakes/Radiator.

 

http://holdenpaedia....d_Crash_Gearbox


Edited by Ian G, 05 March 2015 - 04:25.


#43 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:54

You don't notice, do you?

The manual says all the brakes were the same. All EH models. With the exception of the spring arrangement on the S4 models.

And Ray Eldershaw assures me the clutch plate was no larger, he used the regular 149 clutch plates when he needed replacements.

Basically everyone who knew that an S4 existed back in the day knew they had sintered linings. Today, of course, most people know they had discs instead.

Ray Eldershaw must have fitted the wrong clutch then!



#44 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:31

I haven't got any links that haven't already been covered here,this is one that sold for $30,000,its been mentioned elsewhere on this Forum before but i'll put a link in this Thread for future reference.

 

 

http://australianmus...63-eh-holden-s4

 

 

A few photos of what Lee is talking about,they talk about a 'Taxi Pack' as regards the G/box but i can't find the page referring to the EH Brakes/Radiator.

 

http://holdenpaedia....d_Crash_Gearbox

What we need is the original EH only manual with the 'S4 supplement'. I had one or two but have sold them. I still have my original  EJ EH workshop manual but it is wrecked, missing the first and last dozen pages and the only referral to the S4 is that page pictured before. Which is totally incomplete. Worse it has no mention to the normal later EH 179 where the majority of the S4 mods were used. 

 

That Holden pedia does show the EJ Bellhousing. EH 149 is as it says the same without the side mounts. All EHs had the side engine mounts and extension housing gearbox mount.

Holden Taxi packs usually had a heavy duty battery and generator. Pov pack trim and the rail behind the seat. Possibly they may have used the big radiator too. Defenitly in 179 form with hydramatic.

The EH 179 radiator for the day was totally overkill. I took the fan off of mine [quieter and smoother] and the only time it ever got hot was in a extreme traffic jam. As I was a country bloke that was nearly never! And that with a 190F thermostat. And by that time it had a 149 head to get some compression! Hottie for the day 192, 149 head, mild cam, solid lifters and twin carbs and extractors. And eventually an all sychro box too.As the standard box broke way too often. 



#45 Ian G

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:05

Regarding the Taxi pack they(i'm told) also started putting the interior light button on the rear doors at Pagewood  but no-one seems to know exactly when it started.



#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:51

Ray Eldershaw fitted the original that came with the car...

He was there, he knows what came in the car. The supplement he has is the one that was used to prepare the car for Bathurst and for scrutineering at Bathurst.

Can I ask you please, once again, not to discuss any other model on this thread than the S4?

#47 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:45

Originally posted by Ian G
.....A few photos of what Lee is talking about,they talk about a 'Taxi Pack' as regards the G/box but i can't find the page referring to the EH Brakes/Radiator.
 
http://holdenpaedia....d_Crash_Gearbox


There's no mention there of anything to do with the S4... an S4 would not have had a 'taxi pack'...

For that matter, there was a separate model for taxi (and similar use) which was called the 'Business Model'. Though I'm not sure it was still around in EH times.

But what is relevant with the brakes is that the page of the original workshop manual on the S4 supplement page, as posted above and as followed by Bathurst scrutineers, is that it says that the linings and shoes remained the same as 'all EH models'.

Just the fact that it says 'all EH models' indicates that commercial vehicles used the same brakes.

Now I know that Lee will cry out, 'But mine had...' but it doesn't matter what his had. The EH S4 came right at the beginning of the EH model run and at that time 'all EH models' had the same brakes. If there were changes later, which is possible, it doesn't matter. The S4 was a very early EH.

With regard to the radiator, the reference to the Premier models clarifies everything as that model only came with the 179, all other models had the 149 and the 179 was an option.

So, Lee, we do have the relevant paperwork and it doesn't matter what it omits with regard to later models, it's only the S4 that matters in this thread.

#48 GMACKIE

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 20:44

Not sure about '64, but in '63 brake linings were about the only things that could be non-standard. Tyre brands - not sizes - were free, and Armstrong provided each car with a set of 'special' :up: shocks.



#49 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 22:38

There's no mention there of anything to do with the S4... an S4 would not have had a 'taxi pack'...

For that matter, there was a separate model for taxi (and similar use) which was called the 'Business Model'. Though I'm not sure it was still around in EH times.

But what is relevant with the brakes is that the page of the original workshop manual on the S4 supplement page, as posted above and as followed by Bathurst scrutineers, is that it says that the linings and shoes remained the same as 'all EH models'.

Just the fact that it says 'all EH models' indicates that commercial vehicles used the same brakes.

Now I know that Lee will cry out, 'But mine had...' but it doesn't matter what his had. The EH S4 came right at the beginning of the EH model run and at that time 'all EH models' had the same brakes. If there were changes later, which is possible, it doesn't matter. The S4 was a very early EH.

With regard to the radiator, the reference to the Premier models clarifies everything as that model only came with the 179, all other models had the 149 and the 179 was an option.

So, Lee, we do have the relevant paperwork and it doesn't matter what it omits with regard to later models, it's only the S4 that matters in this thread.

Since I am not even sure they raced S4 63 who knows. There is so many ifs buts and maybes with these cars and this damned thread. In actual fact did they even have sintered metal linings or was it an option? Though as Greg says the linings were free.So why put on linings that are lousy for everyday driving.

Having owned more [about 20] EH Holdens from about 71 than most here the utes and vans normally had wider front drums and shoes,, with a different hold down clip probably!! And  S4 was power boosted. A dealer option on all EHs. There was a couple of different boosters used too.

179s had an 8.6" clutch as did all 179 M subsequently. Plus a different gearbox case and bellhousing. And a bigger tailshaft, used on all 179M subsequently.

The workshop manual is quite remiss in mentioning odd bod cars. As was the parts manuals too. I worked at a Holden Main Parts Dealer when I left school.

Both EJs and EHs had the factory [and dealer fit] option of power steering. Rare but I have seen several. No mention in the manual.

And Seldos memory of quicker steering is that maybe they put a quicker power steer ratio in the S4. Though I am unaware of different ratios. EHs were all [to my knowledge] 16-1 anyway.

No mention of brake boosters in the manual, No mention of manual Premiers in the manual etc etc.

There was no mention of S4 tank senders in the Parts Book either. When mine failed I had to get an auto elec to fix it. In hindsight I probably should have bent a std one.

Though GM and all manufacturers have done this with special models built in limited numbers. As a repairer and car dealer I have copped this many times. 

The 179 was an option on all EHs, early only with auto, all 179s had the big radiator. And I guess a dealer would fit that too any car sold for a fee.

The mention is for a different clutch with a different cover. It just does not say the dimensions.

Interestingly too the afore mentioned S20 EH which were never released [were they made?] was reputedly twin carb, 4 speed and disc brake. Since none got out we will never know.

Yet alone the  project V8 EH that did in the hands of a GM engineer. 283 cast iron glide and 14"Chev Wheels and hubcaps. That car I have seen umpteen times.  In the early 70s. A one off though I am sure. Though many EHs have been built with Chevs, as early as 66 here in Adelaide. There is still a couple alive.



#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 23:33

Still more stuff about other cars, Lee, can you please stop doing that?

I would think that anything that was an option wouldn't be listed on that supplement page. Hence, maybe the 16.3:1 steering box of the EJ was an option on some EH models in lieu of their 16.8:1 box?

And what will it take to stop you insisting there were different brake sizes on early EHs?