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John Taylor and Tony Brise


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#1 rx-guru

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 21:49

Does anyone out there know what the first ever European Rallycross Champion (in 1973) and later Ford Rally Sport representative, Scotsman John Taylor (a former steeplechase jockey!) had to do with the late F1 rising star Tony Brise? Was John Taylor his manager?

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#2 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 22:02

John Taylor used to rallycross the 'Haynes of Maidstone' Escort with great success and Tony Brise was born and brought up in Dartford, Kent, so least they both were geographically close. I'm sorry I can't help you.

#3 RS2000

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 22:46

Tim Brise (brother) led the 1980 RAC Rally initially in an Escort (that might have been an ex-Haynes car) but that was 5 years after Tony Brise died in Graham Hill's aircraft. I know someone who knew JT through the 1979 Faberge Fiesta championship so I'll ask him.

#4 Twin Window

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:53

Tim Brise used to compete in Rallycross, didn't he - at same time as Taylor IIRC?

#5 rx-guru

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:03

Don't know about Tim Brise, but Tony Brise drove at least one Rallycross. I have an old b/w pic showing Tony and John Taylor side by side during a drivers briefing, seemingly at Lydden.

#6 RS2000

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:51

All I could get was that John Taylor may have acted as "mentor" to Tim Brise in rallying, who intially rallied a Fiesta before his brief moment in the limelight in a full spec Escort (that IIRC was on different tyres from works cars and led the RAC after setting a spectacular time on the first stage at Longleat from a lower start number).

#7 RS2000

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 12:53

In a post-1980 RAC Rally article, Tim Brise is described as being "under John Taylor's management". The only picture of the car (actually entered by Dees of Croydon) is not clear but it appears to be carrying the registration number of Taylor's last Haynes of Maidstone car.
None of which, I'm afraid, answers your actual question.

#8 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 12:56

John Taylor retired from competition driving because of increasing back problems as a result of numerous falls from horses in steeplechases, and bumpy rallycross courses couldn't have helped matters. A very fast driver at Lydden and the equal of Rod Chapman and others.

#9 RS2000

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 13:34

I suppose if you really need to know the answer:-

http://www.brise.co....contact us.html

#10 rx-guru

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 14:03

I learned that Taylor stopped horse racing due to the named problems and while being in hospital after once again falling from a horseback met Rod Chapman there who brought him into Rallycross. He stopped doing the RX EC due to regular arguments and battles with eg. Cees Teurlings (European champion 1975) and his team-mate Dick Riefel from Holland. Later Taylor started rallying and also to work for Ford as their rally sport manager. However, thanx for the other information!

#11 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 18:28

...and the Dutch de Rooy brothers seemed to argue with everyone. With their 4WD Cosworth-engined Dafs, nobody could stay with them......legally. I remember Rod Chapman at Lydden deliberately ramming one of them to prevent them winning (yet again).

#12 rx-guru

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 20:08

Those two DAF 555 Coupés (the third 5 stood for Group 5) with 200+bhp BDA engines (by David Wood) and variomatic 4WD system for Harry and Jan de Rooy must have been really something. I've never seen them racing, at the end of 1972 they were banned from RX as the organisers started to follow the FIA rules, although FIA adopted RX only at the end of 1975. Did you also see the 250+bhp 4WD Ford Capri "beasts" of the factory for Roger Clark and his brother Stan as well as a third one for Rod Chapman? They were gone for good at the end of 1971 and I saw my first RX only in 1974... :(

#13 f1steveuk

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 20:53

That would have been the same time as Franz Wurz (Alex's dad) was rallycrossing a fearsome Beetle??

I'll try and ask Simon Brise about the Taylor link to his brothers

#14 MCS

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 21:01

Maybe this should be re-titled John Taylor and Tim Brise ?

#15 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 21:11

The thing about the de Rooy Dafs was that they accelerated like dragsters and nothing could stay with them. They were also roughy toughy drivers and nobody was allowed to stand in their way. Confrontational or what? Rod Chapman, John Taylor and one or two tried to stand up to them but those Dafs were bloody fast and the drivers bloody hard. I think the 4wd Capris came just after I lost interest in rallycross (or was it when I was posted to BAOR Germany?) Years later our family took a Centre Parks holiday in Holland when we discovered that we were only 1/2 a mile from the Valkenvaard rallycross circuit. One weekend we watched an event but it was pretty tame by UK standards - Beetles and Opels for instance. No, the early UK rallycross years were superb......

#16 rx-guru

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 21:44

No, when Franz Wurz started RX 4WD cars had already been banned and the de Rooy brothers were using the BDA-DAFs in the ERCs 1973 and 1974 (the year that Wurz won his first EC title) with RWD already.

No, John Taylor and Tony Brise had also something in common. As stated further up I have the two pictured together (I think in 1973) and seem to remember to have read somewhere that John was mentor or some kind of manager to Tony.

No, the Capris were actually before the DAFs. Yep, the former Eurostrand and later Center Parks area is vis-à-vis to the Eurocircuit. And for me the golden era of RX was 1987 to 1992 when we had about 20 Group B cars with 600+bhp competing in each EC round. :up:

#17 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 20:38

1973, yep that's when Franz Wurz was driving the Peter Kiss racing VW Beetle!!

#18 rx-guru

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 07:09

Yep!
1973: Franz Wurz, Peter Kiss Racing VW 1302S 2.2
1974: Franz Wurz, Porsche Salzburg/Memphis Team VW 1302S 2.4 (VW 411 engine!)

#19 rx-guru

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 22:25

Originally posted by f1steveuk
1973, yep that's when Franz Wurz was driving the Peter Kiss racing VW Beetle!!


Have a look here http://www.erc24.com/ and you’ll find a pic of Wurz senior’s ol’ Kiss beetle.;)