79 replies to this topic

[Ellis French]

The 67 Longford Prog shows it as 5L

[Ray Bell]

Since last night I've done some more research in the columns of RCN...

 

I had to go back to August '66 issue to find something about him in a column (as distinct from a race report), and that was in Vic Clark's Down South column in which Vic had a go at the CAMS for their handling of a charge laid against Wally for entering at both Calder and Surfers on the same day.

 

His complaints against the CAMS included that the Tribunal hearing was to be held on the eve of the Sandown meeting in July and that Wally was popularly known to be losing his licence over this issue. There is no mention of him in the Sandown report despite the fact that he would have been in the better-covered main race.

 

He is mentioned in the October Sandown report, and this is interesting. Apart from it saying he had a bad day, it mentioned clutch and gearbox problems, but it also mentions that he was timed at 139mph up one of the straights! Was the V8 in it then?

[Lee Nicolle]

Since last night I've done some more research in the columns of RCN...
 
I had to go back to August '66 issue to find something about him in a column (as distinct from a race report), and that was in Vic Clark's Down South column in which Vic had a go at the CAMS for their handling of a charge laid against Wally for entering at both Calder and Surfers on the same day.
 
His complaints against the CAMS included that the Tribunal hearing was to be held on the eve of the Sandown meeting in July and that Wally was popularly known to be losing his licence over this issue. There is no mention of him in the Sandown report despite the fact that he would have been in the better-covered main race.
 
He is mentioned in the October Sandown report, and this is interesting. Apart from it saying he had a bad day, it mentioned clutch and gearbox problems, but it also mentions that he was timed at 139mph up one of the straights! Was the V8 in it then?

at 139 mph I doubt it. A 5 litre Chev in that sort of car should be 20mph faster at least. And probably frightening!! My Sports Sedan was about 165mph on the front straight which has been shorter since the 80s.Probably faster over the top. And that pushes a LOT more air.

[ellrosso]

I think you are probably right Lee, it should have been at least 150mph + with the V8. Bob Wright followed Wally for a reasonable distance in that race and said the car was a "real handful" in the corners, which makes you think the V8 may have been quite new to the car and was not properly sorted, handling wise. He was ahead of Hamilton in the Porsche Spyder the lap before he crashed (after starting 3rd on the grid) so probably used the power to get past on the straight. Does the race report shed any light on any of this Ray?

[Catalina Park]

Didn't we have a thread a while back discussing the 5 litre motor in this car?

Edit! Not this one ... http://forums.autosp...-mitchells-rm1/

Edited by Catalina Park, 17 January 2014 - 07:34.

[Ray Bell]

Like I said, I don't recall reading about that anywhere at all...

 

Not that there mightn't have been a thread I've missed, or a post, of course.

 

Lee, it looks like an Oldsmobile to me, but apart from that, if the car had gear and clutch problems it might not have been able to get to top speed anyway.

[Dark Max]

I have just located the advert in RCN for the sale of some of the Wally Mitchell bits, August 1967 edition. It looks like the sale was being handled by Bill Reynolds.

 

The Brabham chassis and parts went to David Sternberg in Tasmania, who rebuilt it. The complete Climax 2.5 ended up with Peter Turnbull but a few years later.

 

Looking at some of the other adverts, it was not difficult to find a Climax engine in 1967.....

 

Ellrosso's David Keep photos of the accident show the RM1 had two different pairs of Brabham wheels, the earlier ones probably from the ex Davison Brabham chassis.

 

Rob Saward

Hi thanks for the extra info If you look at the adds you will see Bill Reynolds, he was Jacks partner in the building of the RM1 and the R in RM1 stands for Reynolds.

[Dark Max]

Ah, there's that Mainline we saw in Parramatta that night...

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see that story!

 

And who sponsored the trip?

Hi I have it in the garage, how do I post scans of it please, and I will post them. cheers.  And could someone please tell me how he could possibly entered in Sandown and the Goldcoast on the same day anyway? Hello! a bit far apart don't you think? And who laid such a stupid charge in the first place?

[Dark Max]

http://www.aussieind.../images/lj1.jpg

[Dark Max]

Hi I have it in the garage, how do I post scans of it please, and I will post them. cheers.  And could someone please tell me how he could possibly entered in Sandown and the Goldcoast on the same day anyway? Hello! a bit far apart don't you think? And who laid such a stupid charge in the first place?

http://www.aussieind.../images/lj1.jpg

[Ray Bell]

It was Calder and Lakeside, I think...

 

As he explains in that link, he'd entered for Surfers in expectation of getting his expenses paid by the circuit, the news that they would cover his costs came through at the last minute and by that time he'd entered Calder instead. He attempted to withdraw his Calder entry but it seems that Calder wanted to hold him to it.

 

The charge was not necessarily stupid. It's a simple CAMS rule that you can't enter conflicting meetings, I would think that Calder was behind the charge and the CAMS followed it through. 

 

There are many instances of the CAMS being thoroughly determined to make life hell for some competitors. Look back at the round Australia trials of the fifties when CAMS were seriously flexing their muscles and showing who was boss in their formative years. 

 

It took Bob Jane to bring them to heel, but they still didn't learn...

[Catalina Park]

But CAMS was working for the competitors. Donald Thompson was mearly a humble servant carrying out the wishes of the members.

[austmcreg]

Hi thanks for the extra info If you look at the adds you will see Bill Reynolds, he was Jacks partner in the building of the RM1 and the R in RM1 stands for Reynolds.

Thanks for the explanation of the Bill Reynolds involvement with Wally - I have often wondered where the RM came from, becasue it did not fit Wally's initials.

 

The fitment of a 5 litre Chev engine has definitely been discussed on TNF before, because this was where I found out. The photos showing the V8 in the wreck have been on TNF before. Previous to that, I too had always assumed it had Climax power at Symmons Plains, but Ellis is correct, when I checked my 1967 Longford program (the week before), it shows the RM1 entry as 5000cc.

 

That Symmons meeting was one of the few I did not attend, as it was asking too much of the family to be away again, a week after a 2 day Longford meeting.

 

A few days ago, I asked Peter Turnbull about the exact details of the ex Wally Mitchell Climax engine he had, and the answer strengthens the Bill Reynolds connection. Apparently the engine was not sold from the RCN advert and Bill put it into a newly built Wren 2.5 litre open wheeler. That car was purchased by Tasmanian Brendon Tapp, who raced it once at Baskerville before it was badly damaged in a trailer accident on the way home. Bob Wright bought the Wren Climax wreck, rebuilt it, raced it a couple of times then converted it to the Tasma Climax SC2 sports car. When he later replaced the Climax with a Repco, Peter bought the Climax.

 

Rob Saward

[ellrosso]

I might correct a couple of details re the Tapp ownership Rob. Brendan raced the brand new car at the 1969 Gold Star round at Symmons in his only outing in the car. The trailer accident occurred on the way to Baskerville for testing prior to the Cambridge Trophy meeting where he would have gone up against Sternberg and McCormack. Early in the morning around 6.30am, he and a mate (Athol Bryant) were coming down the hill to the old timber bridge from Bridgewater (where the housing estate is these days and new concrete bridge etc) in an EK sedan with tandem trailer. Lost it under brakes on a slippery road and the whole lot ended up in the river bed with the $9000 Wren supposedly written off. Made the front page of The Mercury and I kept the clipping for years (tossed out in a family clean-up while I was in Adelaide). Bob Wright bought the wreckage, straightened it all out and was racing it at Symmons before the end of '69. He said the damage was actually not that bad. Bob was a Sports car man though so racing an openwheeler wasn't him at all - hence the car was used as the basis for the Tasma as you mentioned.

[Ellis French]

Just to prove it was a Chev for those doubters here is the original entry form for Longford 1967.....signed by Wally

Longford preceded the fateful Symmons meeting by only a week or so.

 

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by ellrosso

.....He was ahead of Hamilton in the Porsche Spyder the lap before he crashed (after starting 3rd on the grid) so probably used the power to get past on the straight. Does the race report shed any light on any of this Ray?

 

I must have been away from home when this was asked...

 

No, that's not the picture at all. He started third on the grid and rapidly dropped to ninth. A misfire was mentioned. Hamilton was streaking away out in front, Mitchell only got up to third (behind Scott, just passing Ling) before he crashed.

 

The installation of a V8 engine is not mentioned in either the Longford or Symmons reports, even the 'Vale' notice in the next issue says the car was Climax-powered.

 

No wonder I never heard of it!

[spersephone]

Fascinating to see some new material on this thread! We're still looking for those lost medals, mum doesn't believe that Gaye sold them after Johnny died.

[Dark Max]

Fascinating to see some new material on this thread! We're still looking for those lost medals, mum doesn't believe that Gaye sold them after Johnny died.

All I know is We never had Jacks medals, I remember seeing 2 Medals belonging to Wally Senior Grandpa Mitchell. They were sent to Aunty Marg. I have never seen Jacks medals, however I got a frantic phone call from one of my Cousins asking if I was selling Jacks Medals on ebay? I was shocked and explained I had never seen them but would get on to ebay and try and recover them. By the time I got on they had been sold, I did some research to find the Buyer and contacted him, But he refused to sell them or swap for a similar set. The only person I knew who might have had them would have been either Aunty Marg or Aunty Ruth? I thought Aunty Marg would have been most likely and John Dopper would have been the most likely recipient from Marg. If Jonny did not have them and his widow did not sell them, then the question remains who did? You will have to question everyone you know that might have had them. However as shocking as the thought may be, if they were donated to the RSL by Marg maybe or Ruth? The RSL have been known to sell on medals. I think that would be a very remote possibility. I hope you find the buyer as I gave the information on to whichever cousin rang me as to the buyer? If all the kids from Jacks both marriages were on talking terms the task might be easier, but good luck, because the Famly deserves them back.

[Dark Max]

Thanks for the explanation of the Bill Reynolds involvement with Wally - I have often wondered where the RM came from, becasue it did not fit Wally's initials.

 

The fitment of a 5 litre Chev engine has definitely been discussed on TNF before, because this was where I found out. The photos showing the V8 in the wreck have been on TNF before. Previous to that, I too had always assumed it had Climax power at Symmons Plains, but Ellis is correct, when I checked my 1967 Longford program (the week before), it shows the RM1 entry as 5000cc.

 

That Symmons meeting was one of the few I did not attend, as it was asking too much of the family to be away again, a week after a 2 day Longford meeting.

 

A few days ago, I asked Peter Turnbull about the exact details of the ex Wally Mitchell Climax engine he had, and the answer strengthens the Bill Reynolds connection. Apparently the engine was not sold from the RCN advert and Bill put it into a newly built Wren 2.5 litre open wheeler. That car was purchased by Tasmanian Brendon Tapp, who raced it once at Baskerville before it was badly damaged in a trailer accident on the way home. Bob Wright bought the Wren Climax wreck, rebuilt it, raced it a couple of times then converted it to the Tasma Climax SC2 sports car. When he later replaced the Climax with a Repco, Peter bought the Climax.

 

Rob Saward

Bill Reynolds is the R in RM1

[spersephone]

If all the kids from Jacks both marriages were on talking terms the task might be easier, but good luck, because the Famly deserves them back.

All three of Wally's children (from the same marriage) are talking, it's the relationship between them and their cousins/step-siblings that is less than optimal. However, I don't think anyone has the medals. The most likely person has probably sold them and they are unlikely to turn up again, which is a shame.

[MarkBisset]

Guys,

Short article on the '67 Tasmanian Sportscar Championship in which Wally had his accident. Pulls together some of Lindsay's great shots of this sad event

Mark

https://primotipo.co...r-championship/

[spersephone]

A bit late, but thanks for that link - it has some really good stuff. 

[ellrosso]

I may have posted this pic before (maybe in Personal Photos of Aust Racing) but here it is again for the Mitchell thread. We do actually have a 12 (?) shot sequence of the entire accident from start to finish + the aftermath in the library. shot by David Keep.

These photos were published world wide in the week after the crash (Wally was still alive at this stage). David was a photographer/graphic artist for The Mercury newspaper in Hobart at the time.

[Ray Bell]

Thanks for that, Lindsay...

 

It certainly confirms the engine type apart from the horrific damage to the car.

 

It was not the kind of result that should have lain in store for a happy-go-lucky person as Wally was, and someone so devoted to his sport.

[ellrosso]

Some shots from the race and the beginning of the Mitchell crash. Mitchell/Hamilton shot possibly from practice.

Edited by ellrosso, 04 January 2021 - 18:51.

[Ray Bell]

The RCN doesn't concur with that, Lindsay...

 

It has Mitchell dropping back from an already-poor start for several laps with a misfire before starting to make forward moves around lap eight. By lap fifteen he shot past Ling into third and then the crash took place. He was never ahead of Hamilton during the race, so that pic must be from practice. The AMS report is the same but with less detail, only that he'd just got ahead of Ling and locked his rear wheels over the Bessant Hump 'as his front brakes didn't appear to work'. It also includes the information that a schoolboy at first tried to help Mitchell out but the flames beat him. Mitchell undid his belt and 'tumbled' out of the car.

 

The race was restarted at the sixteenth lap.

[ellrosso]

Thanks Ray, David's memory is obviously playing tricks on him - I will delete the text on my post.

[Ray Bell]

What you posted, however, helps me to understand something that's been a mystery to me all these years...

 

In the pic of Wally going into the fence there's no right front wheel visible, I always thought that odd but had never heard an explanation of it.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
In the notes of this picture
http://www.oldraceph...9be609c7d86bed2
Lindsay wrote the Mitchell's RM1 was fitted with a 5-liter Chevy V8 engine instead of the Climax engine as is reported in several other sources (Racing Car News issue May 1967, etc.).

I'd like to know where in that magazine it was reported...

I have looked, I believe, everywhere, RCN doesn't seem to mention the engine swap at all. The only thing I found about Wal in that issue was the 'Vale' notification of his passing, and it that it still mentioned that the car had the 2.5 Climax.

[ellrosso]

This is Wally Mitchell at Longford (Viaduct) 1967 a couple of weeks before the Symmons meeting.