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Welsor... a different way of doing things


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#1 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 11:19

"The floor's flat!" said Colin Wear when I remarked that he'd need a flat floor to get the wheel alignment right...

The scene was late at night. The single car garage at the side of his Chester Hill home was the setting for a real working bee as Peter Lander's replacement car was being built for a race meeting either one week or two after he'd written off his own.

The arc-welding of the chassis had been completed. "You know if it sticks that it's got penetration," Col said, "you never know with nickel bronze if it's right, or with gas welding." Who was I to argue? Angle grinding of the rougher bumps was done, paint was on the chassis and various helpers were putting the finishing touches to rivetting on the alloy panels.

There was probably someone bleeding brakes and someone else mixing up the paint. Col didn't want to have to paint it at night, but there was no choice. It was a job that had to be done and it was only nine hours till the car had to be on the trailer to head out to the circuit.

This was the way it was at the Welsor workshop. This was the place where what surely must have been the most successful beam-axle equipped cars of the sixties or seventies were built. Not that Lander's car had a beam axle. It was a 1600cc Ford powered car with independent front end by wishbones.

But David Seldon's car with the BMC A-series out to 1293cc for the 1300cc class had a beam axle. A piece of heavy walled tube of about 2" diameter, located by single leading arms and a Watts linkage, it had provision at its middle to twist with a sleeve up each section to provide rigidity, and at the ends were Hillman Imp stub axle assemblies.

These were just the thing. They had a camber adjustment setup that fitted right in with this application, they had 4" PCD for the wheels, same as the BMC rear end, and disc brakes were easily adapted.

But why the beam axle?

"You win races by outbraking other cars," Col said. "All the car has to do is handle well enough to stay with the leader, then the driver has to outbrake the other car going into the last corner and he should be able to stay ahead until the finish line. With the beam axle there's no camber change under braking so the full width of the tyre can apply the braking forces."

Simple theory... but the thing is that it worked.

Maybe David Seldon, the intrepid 'last of the late brakers' can tell us more?

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#2 seldo

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 12:53

Hehe...yes...all true! Colin was a bit of an enigma - a stubborn, dry-humoured, clever, brilliant even, but very self opinionated guy who barely tolerated fools, and as a boiler-maker taught at Tech College during the day. And whilst his first love was steam-engines, several of which ranging from tiny maybe 1/30th scale locomotives which he built from scratch and made everything down to the miniature rivets and nuts and bolts, graced the workshop - down to the gigantic steam traction engine that, to his long-suffering wife's dismay graced the front lawn of their modest suburban home. But Col was a bit of an eccentric genius, who always tried to take a different point of view to most people, sometimes just to be contrary, other times just because he was so damned clever. I don't know how he became involved in the Clubman scene but he began by building a couple of cars with a couple of friends, and so began the Welsor name. It was WEar, WiLS on, and I forget the third, but we'll call it PriOR. In the Chapman style they were simple, light and strong, although Col, never a wealthy man by any means, was also a bit of a scrounger and so cost often won over suitability. But he was always a very astute observer and decided, in his stubborn way, that the secret to a winning advantge was in making the cars stop well. So, he came up with a quite ingenius beam-axle front suspension that overcame some of the inherant faults in a beam-axle in that caster and camber changes were separated side-for-side by splitting the axle in the centre and having both halves connected by a concentric-sleeve in the center with a connecting locking pin which was also attached to the front watts link and was adjustable for height to change roll-centre. The effect was that each half of the axle could rotate under bump/droop without affecting the other half's geometry other than by height and unsprung-weight. With Hillman Imp stubs attached to each end of the axle, each wheel had individually adjustable camber right at the end, and the leading-arms locating it longitudinally had a vertical adjustment at their chassis attachment point giving individual caster adjustment. The nett result was the car was light, simple, strong, and above all - because of the front end there was no camber change under braking so the tyre-contact patch remained static and was able to be held in its optimal situation, which meant that it was just about unbeatable under brakes. Many was the race that I won by just hounding the faster cars (with a 1293 A series producing 128bhp at its peak there was no alternative), and then on the last corner just poke the nose down the inside and seriously out-brake them to lead to the finish line. (Sometimes, there was a bit of a lean on the other guy.... but this was where the front-end strength was a boon...) With that wonderful wisdom/clarity of hindsight, I sometimes feel I'd like to do Col proud and build another one using the knowledge and materials now available. I mean, for a start, the axle-tube was a piece of approx 2.5" water pipe - Col - "cheap and strong", but not light. the chassis was constructed of mild square tube arced together in Col's workshop using the measurements and plans carefully drafted in his head. "....Yeah...I think we should have another bit of tube from about here to..... here. Measure that and cut it will you Dave?...". But, very successful cars. One year we contested every eligible race on the East Coast and finished with 69 out of a possible 72 points for the season, and won the Championship. The previous or next year (I forget which) we came 2nd, being beaten by a 1600 car. Occassionally the promotors would bolster the big sports-car fields by tossing-in some of our clubman cars, and many was the March/Lotus/ Lola that was embarassed by these little cars. Very clever man, very clever cars.

#3 Bonde

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 21:14

Most enjoyable posts, Ray and Seldo! :up:

And welcome to the forum, Seldo

Any chance of photos of any of the Welsor clubmans - particularly of the front axle arrangement?








[...and could you please put some line breaks into your otherwise excellent posts, Seldo - makes'em much easier to read...]

#4 seldo

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 12:14

Originally posted by Bonde
Most enjoyable posts, Ray and Seldo! :up:

And welcome to the forum, Seldo

Any chance of photos of any of the Welsor clubmans - particularly of the front axle arrangement?








[...and could you please put some line breaks into your otherwise excellent posts, Seldo - makes'em much easier to read...]

Sorry about that - old habits die hard - still trying to save paper.....

I don't have any photos I'm afraid (ex-wife binned them all.....) and I did sit down and tried to draw it all up but it's very difficult trying to dig-out from the back of the brain those dusty old files that haven't seen light of day in 35 years..... I kept finding that I disagreed with what I'd drawn....

#5 Paul Newby

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 07:06

Interesting discussion here Ray and Seldo.

Now, while I'm vaguely familiar with other Sydney racing constructors like Nota and Renmax, I know precious little about Welsor, though these last four posts have certainly multiplied my residual knowledge.

So here are the obvious questions :) :

How many were built, over what period? Variations on the theme?

How many survive? Where are they all now?

Is Colin Wear still with us? What is he doing now?

Trust me, I don't want this to be a chassis-by-chassis treatise. I like the idea of building a pukka clubman in a home workshop after hours and going out and winning national championships in it... :up:

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:13

Probably, for the most part, it's best to leave David to tell most of this...

But I'll fill in some bits I can.

The first car that I know about was raced by Ron Kearns and was fairly normal looking for its time. A little bit ahead of a Lotus 7, perhaps, in some quarters, but nothing like the cars to come.

Then came the more radical car for Kearns, the other was sold off. I remember it in Geoff Buckingham's hands, but it's been through many more. The new Kearns car didn't get raced often by Ron, as I recall, if at all, but Peter Lander bought it to replace his Hustler (the ex-Martin car) and race it under Col Wear's wing.

The write-off at Amaroo of the car was fairly spectacular, off the track on the inside of the sweeper down the back (Mazda House corner, later on) nose first into the bank and then several rollovers. "As soon as I saw it rolling I knew he was okay," Col said later. The new car probably incorporated a few more sophisticated features. If 'sophisticated' is the right word for a Welsor.

At this time there had already been at least two more similar cars built. One was raced regularly by Ray Kaleda before it was sold to Rod Swadling, the other went to Ian Field, who took a fair while to get it onto the circuit. All of these were 1600 Ford cars.

At the same time the BMC-powered beam axle car had germinated. This was a real winner in David's hands, especially at Amaroo. Later there was another with a Datsun engine run by David, while I think the Baron Revelman car was a different one, possibly Corolla powered. Bob Mills, who helped Col out a lot, built his own, but it wasn't finished until years later in Queensland. Al Palmer of St Marys finished up with the Datsun engined car.

Talking to John Medley the other night, we were discussing yet another car that came later. For Peter Lander, it had left hand drive for some reason (probably to use some kind of rack and pinion Col thought was better) and had the beam axle. It really doesn't come up in my recollections at all. Maybe someone else knows.

The Datsun 1000 Sports sedan was there too... and Col ran Minis and Dolomites etc at Bathurst. But he died, maybe ten years ago, maybe more.

#7 Terry Walker

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:11

A Welsor clubman raced in WA in the late 70s, driven by Dave Currell. Third in the WA Sports Car Champs 1978.

#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:28

That one was a Datsun-engined beam axle car...

#9 seldo

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:56

Hmmm! This is all quite strange for me in that most of this info has long been consigned to the archived files in my brain and I'm finding it a little difficult to retrieve it, although it's amazing how some of these little snippets are acting as triggers. You see, it all belongs in a previous life that was long consigned to the re-cycle bin...

OK...Yes, Ron Kearns ran maybe the first car and then commissioned the 2nd car which Peter Lander took over. Col was a man of very modest means and Ron was a fairly successful businessman who recognised Col's unusual genius and was also a quite competent driver in his own right, so the two gelled. He was also responsible for introducing me to Col due to our common affiliation with the Volvo 122S... (Don't laugh - they were a reasonable gadget in their day...)

Ray's recollection (as usual) is pretty spot-on in that Peter Lander had bought the ex Tony Simmons (of wheel fame) and then Bob Martin, Hustler, but wanted something better, and based on the performance of Kearns' car asked col to build another.

[ Ray Bell]Probably, for the most part, it's best to leave David to tell most of this...

But I'll fill in some bits I can.

The first car that I know about was raced by Ron Kearns and was fairly normal looking for its time. A little bit ahead of a Lotus 7, perhaps, in some quarters, but nothing like the cars to come.

Then came the more radical car for Kearns, the other was sold off. I remember it in Geoff Buckingham's hands, but it's been through many more. The new Kearns car didn't get raced often by Ron, as I recall, if at all, but Peter Lander bought it to replace his Hustler (the ex-Martin car) and race it under Col Wear's wing.

The write-off at Amaroo of the car was fairly spectacular, off the track on the inside of the sweeper down the back (Mazda House corner, later on) nose first into the bank and then several rollovers. "As soon as I saw it rolling I knew he was okay," Col said later. The new car probably incorporated a few more sophisticated features. If 'sophisticated' is the right word for a Welsor

At this time there had already been at least two more similar cars built. One was raced regularly by Ray Kaleda before it was sold to Rod Swadling, the other went to Ian Field, who took a fair while to get it onto the circuit. All of these were 1600 Ford cars..

I well remember the car raced by Ray Collider ;) but whilst I remember Ian Fields' car I don't recall much detail about it.

[Ray Bell]At the same time the BMC-powered beam axle car had germinated. This was a real winner in David's hands, especially at Amaroo. Later there was another with a Datsun engine run by David, while I think the Baron Revelman car was a different one, possibly Corolla powered. Bob Mills, who helped Col out a lot, built his own, but it wasn't finished until years later in Queensland. Al Palmer of St Marys finished up with the Datsun engined car.

The Baron Revelman car was my original black "A" series car which he bought and then decided to "improve" by lengthening the chassis (because he didn't fit in it since it was literally built around me with no tolerance. I literally sat on the chassis jig while Col measured around me..) and fitting a Corolla engine. As soon as the A series car was sold to Baron we built the 2nd Datsun 1200 engined car which was now orange in colour for some reason - probably because Col had some spare orange paint... Bob Mills was a mate of Col's who had helped us build the Datsun car, and as I recall, in payment, Col agreed to let Bob duplicate a chassis, although, before the car was finished Bob headed north to Qld where he finished the car some years later, although I have no knowledge of any of those details.

[Ray Bell]Talking to John Medley the other night, we were discussing yet another car that came later. For Peter Lander, it had left hand drive for some reason (probably to use some kind of rack and pinion Col thought was better) and had the beam axle. It really doesn't come up in my recollections at all. Maybe someone else knows.

Yes, I remember this car being built for Peter, I think, and the left-hand-drive was for purely ergonomic reasons in that it enabled a better carburettor set-up or somesuch.....
There was also the still-born concept of the Honda S1500 coupe(?) engined car which had amazing potential in that the engine gave amazing power, was light, air-cooled = no radiator, revved like mad.......but ran counter-clockwise, so we couldn't work-out how to source a gear-box for it because the original engine came from a front front-drive car.....

[Ray Bell]The Datsun 1000 Sports sedan was there too... and Col ran Minis and Dolomites etc at Bathurst. But he died, maybe ten years ago, maybe more.

Yes, Col prepared and ran 3 Cooper Ss for us at Bathurst in ....maybe 75?. Gary Leggatt and I were in one, Peter Lander and Bob Martin in another and Caroline O'Shaunessy and xxx in the third. Gary qualified on pole in the class I think and then was taken out in a clash at Murrays on the 1st lap which broke the rack. We slaved for a couple of hours and replaced the rack with one borrowed from that nice guy Phil McDonnel's broken car, but of course we were out of the running. Peter brought the other car home for a class win, and I'm embarrssed to say I forget what happened to the 3rd car.

Sadly, Col, who was an unusual man in that he demanded of his harmless wife Mary that he have his never-varying regular evening meal of grilled steak or chops and chips at precisely 6.00pm every night. No veg, no variation. He died about 12 or so years ago of a heart attack in the back yard with Mary having come to investigate why he was late for dinner...

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:04

Ah yes, the Coupe 7 engine... 1300cc of air cooled confusion...

Never really got to the wire with this one, but I think Col did a lot of evaluation work on it. And of course, you're right, whatever engine was in that car that Peter finished up in had its carbies (or exhausts?) on the right, so it was better packaging to put his lanky legs on the left.

And thanks for the correction to the Baron Revelman deal, I was sitting here thinking after I'd done my post that it might have been the black car. I was right with the Corolla bit too, eh? Just lucky sometimes.

#11 seldo

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:15

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Ah yes, the Coupe 7 engine... 1300cc of air cooled confusion...

Never really got to the wire with this one, but I think Col did a lot of evaluation work on it. And of course, you're right, whatever engine was in that car that Peter finished up in had its carbies (or exhausts?) on the right, so it was better packaging to put his lanky legs on the left.

And thanks for the correction to the Baron Revelman deal, I was sitting here thinking after I'd done my post that it might have been the black car. I was right with the Corolla bit too, eh? Just lucky sometimes.

Yes...Coupe 7...that was it. It had amazing potential except that it frustrated the hell out of Col because he was sooo close to producing a brilliant car......but how to fix a problem which gave 5 speeds in reverse and only 1 forward....
And...in typical Col fashion he poo-pooed anyone who dared question the logic of LHD when it made for much better packaging of the intake or exhaust.... And...I guess ...who can argue..?

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:27

That direction of rotation thing might have been a biggie... but it wasn't all... but first...

Had it been up to me, I'd have presented these options:

Honda S600/S800 gearbox, especially the 5-speed dog engagement version with super close ratios that Noel Riley used to make sing around the farm. This had a drop gear at the back of the box to reverse the direction of rotation because the engine was similarly left handed as was the Honda.

Renault Fregate gearbox, which also reversed the rotation. But by different means... the input shaft drove the output shaft, there was no layshaft, so the shafts turned opposite directions. Only a three speeder, though, but I can see Col twitching his moustache and going ahead to prove it was the right way to go.

Use the rules to the max. The used to say that the 'input and output shafts and their housings may be modified for the purpose of adaptation.' Well, isn't putting a drop gear in there the optimum way of adapting the things for this purpose? (let's not break the news all at once that we might have two or three different ratios for that drop gear...)

But the final reason for not going ahead was that the CAMS banned air cooled engines in Clubmans. Simple, isn't it?

#13 seldo

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 13:31

Originally posted by Ray Bell
That direction of rotation thing might have been a biggie... but it wasn't all... but first...

Had it been up to me, I'd have presented these options:

Honda S600/S800 gearbox, especially the 5-speed dog engagement version with super close ratios that Noel Riley used to make sing around the farm. This had a drop gear at the back of the box to reverse the direction of rotation because the engine was similarly left handed as was the Honda.

Renault Fregate gearbox, which also reversed the rotation. But by different means... the input shaft drove the output shaft, there was no layshaft, so the shafts turned opposite directions. Only a three speeder, though, but I can see Col twitching his moustache and going ahead to prove it was the right way to go.

Use the rules to the max. The used to say that the 'input and output shafts and their housings may be modified for the purpose of adaptation.' Well, isn't putting a drop gear in there the optimum way of adapting the things for this purpose? (let's not break the news all at once that we might have two or three different ratios for that drop gear...)

But the final reason for not going ahead was that the CAMS banned air cooled engines in Clubmans. Simple, isn't it?

Aha Ray...I suspect you are utilising what we would all like to use - the wisdom of hind-sight. I'm sure that Col would have jumped at any of your solutions had he known at the time. I do know he spent a lot of time on it and one potential solution was to use a VW box I think and reverse the c/w....ahhhh...it's too long ago....something like that anyway. I did spend a couple of hours drawing up the front suspension from my memory of 40 years ago, but each time I thought I'd finished I then had second thoughts and started again....I couldn't agree with myself...

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 13:39

Not so much hindsight, David...

Remember, back 'in the day' I bought myself a Peugeot 304 engine which was really the ideal engine for a Clubman as the formula then stood. I sussed it right out, and it also had this issue with the reverse rotation.

My plan was to do the 'input and output shaft and their housings' thing using a 404 box, but I did get hold of a Honda box to have a look at it.

Of course, any plan that Col had to use the VW box would have been scotched by Alby Middleton's approach to the CAMS when it was mooted that someone could use an FT200. Now how could they do that?

Well, the rules said that the major mechanical components must come from a 'CAMS recognised production car'... and at the time the CAMS recognised the racing version of the Europa, the Lotus 47, as a 'production car'. And it had an FT200.

By taking the drive straight through the box, with the output coming from the back of the lower shaft, you had a five speed box with infinitely variable ratios. Dump the final drive, blank off the sides of the diff housing, all done.

CAMS put the stoppers on that by inserting words in the rules like 'no transaxle of any description may be used.'

Which is fair enough. But it also killed off some innocently useful gearboxes, like the Fiat X19 Rally box, for instance. Whoops! You didn't hear me mention that, did you?

No David, it's not hindsight, I've been looking closely at all this stuff for many years.

#15 seldo

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 22:17

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Not so much hindsight, David...

Remember, back 'in the day' I bought myself a Peugeot 304 engine which was really the ideal engine for a Clubman as the formula then stood. I sussed it right out, and it also had this issue with the reverse rotation.

My plan was to do the 'input and output shaft and their housings' thing using a 404 box, but I did get hold of a Honda box to have a look at it.

Of course, any plan that Col had to use the VW box would have been scotched by Alby Middleton's approach to the CAMS when it was mooted that someone could use an FT200. Now how could they do that?

Well, the rules said that the major mechanical components must come from a 'CAMS recognised production car'... and at the time the CAMS recognised the racing version of the Europa, the Lotus 47, as a 'production car'. And it had an FT200.

By taking the drive straight through the box, with the output coming from the back of the lower shaft, you had a five speed box with infinitely variable ratios. Dump the final drive, blank off the sides of the diff housing, all done.

CAMS put the stoppers on that by inserting words in the rules like 'no transaxle of any description may be used.'

Which is fair enough. But it also killed off some innocently useful gearboxes, like the Fiat X19 Rally box, for instance. Whoops! You didn't hear me mention that, did you?

No David, it's not hindsight, I've been looking closely at all this stuff for many years.

Ahhh - you're too good for me Ray ;) I haven't even looked at a CAMS manual for over 20 years and I'd pretty much expunged their peculiar gobbledegook from my brain..... But yes, I know you seem to be still somehow strangely and inexplicably engrossed in their peculiar tribal laws and lore... I suppose someone has to... :)

#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 23:18

Far from it, David!

I lost all interest in Clubman regs when they moved further towards banning production parts and requiring specialised racing stuff.

You'd be amazed at how stupid it got. And now there's a whole bunch of diversity in Clubman categories that are running despite what CAMS might think a Clubman should be.

#17 seldo

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 00:41

So what's CAMS' latest take on them - what are the rules these days? You suggest that there is some multiplicity of classes within the Clubman ranks? Or is it Rafferty's Rules....?

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 01:56

Well, as you're obviously picking up, David, racing is no more like it used to be...

There is less reason to be so choosy about classes like this, just getting a field together is the all-important thing.

I think the situation is that the CAMS has a class just like it always had. 1300cc, probably. And then they allow a controlled spec Suzuki Swift engine in it too.

That's probably the official classes. I say this because I haven't seen a more up to date CAMS manual than my 1996 one. The Suzuki engine isn't mentioned in that.

Nevertheless, last I spoke to anyone about it, the Suzuki spec engine was starting to take over. Twin cams, modern construction... why wouldn't it? And cheaper to build too.

With the number of 'roadies' around these days, it appears that it simply seemed like a good idea to allow road-based cars to run with whatever they have. So I think they are limited to 2-litres, but not by CAMS, but by the Associations.

#19 cosworth bdg

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 02:16

Originally posted by seldo
Hmmm!

Sadly, Col, who was an unusual man in that he demanded of his harmless wife Mary that he have his never-varying regular evening meal of grilled steak or chops and chips at precisely 6.00pm every night. No veg, no variation. He died about 12 or so years ago of a heart attack in the back yard with Mary having come to investigate why he was late for dinner...

I wonder WHY..................?????

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#20 seldo

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 02:36

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
I wonder WHY..................?????

Yes...no real surprise I guess....that and the never-ending durrie hanging from his lips....

#21 cosworth bdg

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 03:15

Originally posted by seldo

Yes...no real surprise I guess....that and the never-ending durrie hanging from his lips....

Just like a gentleman that i worked with on the 1974 Tasman Series, unfortunately he is no longer with us....................................R.I.P.

#22 murray thomas

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 05:07

Welsor Clubman in western Australia

I raced against this car for four years

The beam Axel great for braking

John Hurney originally Got the Welsor over to Perth in 1974

John bought a Haggis after that and Dave Currel raced it for quite a few years

Great Interesting Car

I had a B.A.R.P. 9 and have still got it some 32 years on and was quicker4 than the welsor

It had a much more slipery shape tha the Welsor

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 11:03

Originally posted by seldo
.....Yes, Col prepared and ran 3 Cooper Ss for us at Bathurst in ....maybe 75?. Gary Leggatt and I were in one, Peter Lander and Bob Martin in another and Caroline O'Shaunessy and xxx in the third. Gary qualified on pole in the class I think and then was taken out in a clash at Murrays on the 1st lap which broke the rack. We slaved for a couple of hours and replaced the rack with one borrowed from that nice guy Phil McDonnel's broken car, but of course we were out of the running. Peter brought the other car home for a class win, and I'm embarrssed to say I forget what happened to the 3rd car.....


That wasn't the year you pulled up at the end of the race and had the pin drop out of the diff and lock the drive solid, was it?

#24 seldo

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 13:21

Originally posted by Ray Bell


That wasn't the year you pulled up at the end of the race and had the pin drop out of the diff and lock the drive solid, was it?

Yes - I think so Ray. I was so knackered at the end, having driven almost the whole race pretty-much single handed since Gary was so pissed-off with himself for the prang that he didn't want to drive, that I had to be helped from the car. Problem was that I'd never driven the car before the race apart from official practise, and as a new-comer to front-drivers I spent most of the race chasing the handling, esp across the top of the mountain. I have to say I absolutely hated the car and I doubt I could have ever been really at home in it. Hrrumpfff...bloody FWD!

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 13:24

Gary is a regular visitor at my brother's Gold Coast workshop... I was just told this tale tonight, never heard of it before.

Yeah, I know. But it's not up to me to decide who my brother will talk to, is it?

#26 seldo

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 13:54

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Gary is a regular visitor at my brother's Gold Coast workshop... I was just told this tale tonight, never heard of it before.

Yeah, I know. But it's not up to me to decide who my brother will talk to, is it?

Is that right? Gary was a very very good steerer, and very clever - also taught me to read the CAMS manual, re-read it, and then read it again - because it rarely actually said what they intended it to say....

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 13:56

Originally posted by seldo
Is that right? Gary was a very very good steerer, and very clever - also taught me to read the CAMS manual, re-read it, and then read it again - because it rarely actually said what they intended it to say....


Have I ever lied to you?

Yeah, you can have some fun reading the book at times. I'll bet Colin Wear had fun with it on occasion.

#28 Kaleda

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 10:49

If you are looking for Welsor pictures I have a few in my collection there is one on http://www.raykaleda.com

http://www.raykaleda.com

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 22:12

When did Ray Kaleda sneak in here without being noticed?

Hope he keeps on posting, doesn't get too miffed that this one was missed...

#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 00:39

Originally posted by Kaleda
If you are looking for Welsor pictures I have a few in my collection there is one on http://www.raykaleda.com

Posted Image


This is Ray's Welsor before it went to Rod Swadling... Bob Martin in pursuit, can't pick the car over by the wall...

#31 275 GTB-4

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 02:19

Footnote: CAMS is publishing most of the bible on their website as of next year (I think) .

#32 Kaleda

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 10:48

Well I am not actually Ray Kaleda I am his Son Danny trying to track down his history and Cars

His favorite car was the Welsor and I would like to find it for him if it still exists as he is in his 70's now

I do know it was sold to Rod on the 14th April 1975 as we still have the LOG book

I spoke with Rod and he sold it to Brian Rawling of Bull Ant Motors which is another clubman builder so I have been told in 1977.

This is as far as I have searched yet The car was seen racing in the early 80's so there is still a 20 year gap to go. We did find a Wesor we think in Melbourne but was told latter it was not my fathers

#33 275 GTB-4

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 11:10

Welcome Danny..

You could try contacting the VHRR, HSRCA, HRCC, Sporting Car Club of SA etc....

http://www.vhrr.com/index.html

http://www.hsrca.org.au/

http://www.hrcc.org.au/

http://www.sportingcarclubsa.org.au/

or...

The photo sites....look for the credits or recent shots

http://members.tripo...orsportarchive/

autopix etc

even CAMS might be able to help!!

do a search on Welsor in this forum....

#34 Kaleda

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 11:54

Thanks I have been through them a few times but it is time consuming I'll post what information I find. just hope the car has not been changed from its original body shape.

#35 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:08

recent advert...

Wanted.....Copy of Racing Car News May 1973 or a photocopy of its article about A Welsor Waggott Clubman that I now own. jim.templeton@templetonwatkins.com.au

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:16

That was the original beam axle car...

BMC engine, 4-wheel discs, stopped on a dime.

Originally posted by Kaleda
Thanks I have been through them a few times but it is time consuming I'll post what information I find. just hope the car has not been changed from its original body shape.


The body was really simple, I wouldn't worry too much about that...

#37 Kaleda

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 10:10

Posted Image

#38 Eshe

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 10:16

Not sure if this is a Welsor - can anyone confirm the car and driver identity? Location is Oran Park, 1978.

Posted Image

#39 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 10:16

Originally posted by Ray Bell
BMC engine....long, long inlet branch, Weber fed....:cool:



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#40 Kaleda

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 10:36

Posted Image

#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 11:14

Originally posted by Eshe
Not sure if this is a Welsor - can anyone confirm the car and driver identity? Location is Oran Park, 1978.

Posted Image


John Horswell... Puma Corolla...

Built by Ian Cook at Regents Park, lived in Bolaro Avenue at Greystanes, Wanjay Waste was John's own business. Next door neighbour was Norm Adams, they knocked up a 'rough copy' of the Puma using a Ford engine for Norm.

#42 Eshe

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 11:32

Thank you Ray. I haven't found the race program for that meeting yet.

#43 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 13:11

That's okay...

You aren't ready for me to tell you what Brian Shead and Brian Sampson said when I mentioned that 'rough copy' bit, are you?

#44 Eshe

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 13:18

I guess it wasn't complimentary....

#45 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 20:56

Any more Clubman pics from that meeting?

I'd like to see a pic of Ian Field in this thread...

#46 Kaleda

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 22:55

Posted Image

#47 Kaleda

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 23:28

Keith Murray 1st Ray Kaleda 2nd Oran Park June 26 1972
Welsor 1 2

#48 seldo

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 02:01

Originally posted by Kaleda
Posted Image

Well! ....How about that!. Thanks for that Danny - I don't have any of those old photos or reports any more....they went with a previous wife who delighted in destroying them all......

#49 TREV

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 13:06

Hi David,

you forgot the noodle soup eaten with knife and fork!! as a precursor to the burnt steak

the OR in Welsor came from John taylor. John left the "organisation" after an engine was dropped on his foot. I think Ray was there that night and holding one end of the 4x2 engine hoist.

Do you remember the time you swapped clothes with Colin Bond? and the time you lost your glasses on the bonnet of the car?

From memory there were about 13-14 cars, somewhere I have a list, I also have a lot of drawings and photos.

SEE LATER POST # 78 FOR MORE ACCURATE INFORMATION ON CAR NUMBERS ETC.


Car 1 was the Ron Kearns car basically a copy of a nota frame with "wear suspension" front and rear.
Car 2-5 were all wishbone front end - Keith Murray,Ray Kaleda, Peter lander, Ian fields,
Car 2 (??) is currently owned by Jim Foulis in melb, recognised by having cutouts in the frame for doors.
Car 6 was the first Beam axle and affectionately known as the black car. You may remember first time out the car overheated and we cut about 3" off the nose. The word WAGGOT which was below WELSOR got cutoff in the process. Check the RCN article.
Car 7 I think was the first Datsun engine and went to John Hearney in WA at the end of season.
car 8 or 9 was the bob mills car and restored by Barry Thew, then sold to the Hoot Gibson family,recently sold but dont know to whom. 2nd and only other car with Datsun engine.

The orange paint was a visibility thing for photographs, the original source was some "surplus" stock from where Col and I worked and was the corporate colours of a well known trucking company at the time. The colour was slightly changed to protect the innocent.

The "works" cars were mainly Orange save for the black car and the last car which was dark blue.
The first car was a slightly different orange with the addition of a little bit too much red. I still have a rear mudguard off this car.

The last car was the LHD car built in 1977. It was LHD for two reasons- most tracks were anti clockwise, the radiator was in the passenger footwell - opposite side to the exhaust. The engine from memory was a 1300 cross flow ford. Was sold to Kevin ? Peters in QLD. smashed, rebuilt in RHD form without beam axle.

Col and I kept in touch over the years and had many an adventure in far off lands. Our last adventure was in 1998. Col died in May 2000 at age 57 whilst we were planning our next adventure.

He was without doubt a rare man with a dry sense of humour and a cutting wit.
Everything he did he researched thoroughly and did to perfection.
When he died he had a collection of in excess of 6000 books.

It is a small world David, two weeks ago I rang B&C attempting to track you down.

My email adcoteng@pnc.com.au let me know your contact details please.

Trev

#50 TREV

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 13:56

Danny,
Brian Rawlings phone number 4572 1861. make sure you have plenty of time when you phone.
Say hello to your dad for me, he will remember the bloke in his little brown Nota that he could never quite beat at amaroo hill climb, it used to frustrate the hell out of him the thought of a Nota beating a Lotus 7