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TNF's 'Worldwide BMC Owners Club'


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#501 BRG

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:28

I was following a very recently produced BMC product (my guess is that it was made within the last year or so) just yesterday. Not quite a car though...but a bus.

BMC is a company in business in Turkey. And I think there is a conection with "our" BMC too. I believe they manufactured BMC trucks from CKD kits may years ago and seem to have not given up using the initials, although they may mean something quite different in Turkish. Anybody know more or skilled enough to do a proper net search?

Not hard to do. They have an English language website www.bmc.com.tr which tells us that "Having started its manufacturing with Austin and Morris commercial vehicles, BMC steadily expanded its product range and grew stronger with the beginning of heavy truck, light truck, tractor and engine production in 1966.... Following the license agreement, which provided BMC to be ranked amongst the strongest commercial vehicle manufacturers in the world, all shares of BMC were acquired by Çukurova Holding, one of the leading conglomerates in Turkey also in 1980s."

Their proper name is BMC Sanayi ve Ticaret A.Ş. which suggests that the BMC initials are retained for legacy reasosn and no longer stand for anything particularly.

Edited by BRG, 19 March 2013 - 14:29.


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#502 776VDE

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 23:05

There was to be a UK version of what is known in south Africa as the Austin Victoria, basically an 11/1300 with a boot.


The Austin Victoria was rather more then an 1100 with a boot. It was the Spanish version of what was known in South Africa as the Austin Apache. It was an 1100/1300 centre with Michelotti designed front and rear which were rather Triumph looking and much more attractive than the Allegro in my eyes.

Austin Victoria De Luxe
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Austin Apache
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The back end alongside a Dolomite for comparison
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Personally I much prefer the twin headlight front end of the Victoria.

There were plans for an MG Victoria and at least one was built and either exhibited at a car show or brought to the UK for evaluation at Longbridge.

#503 Dick Willis

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 23:29

I have just finished reading "Building Cars in Australia" the story of the BMC plant in Australia from its opening, through its expansions until its closure in 1973. Highly recommended reading for anyone interested in BMC both in Australia and anywhere in the world.

#504 garyfrogeye

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 23:47

Mick, right from the beginning of the thread this has been securely fixed to BMC cars...


The title of this thread is "TNF's 'Worldwide BMC Owners Club" not "TNF's 'Worldwide BMC Car Owners Club". Are you saying that BMC commercial vehicles are excluded too?

#505 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:40

By no means...

I would certainly include the Austin and Morris trucks, light commercials and all other BMC derivatives. Nuffield tractors, too.

#506 arttidesco

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:49

By no means...

I would certainly include the Austin and Morris trucks, light commercials and all other BMC derivatives. Nuffield tractors, too.


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Stumbled across an example Britain's other 4x4 last year :cool:

#507 Odseybod

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 13:07

Stumbled across an example Britain's other 4x4 last year :cool:


A third contender is Champing at the bit (and it's also an Austin ...).

Edited by Odseybod, 20 May 2013 - 13:09.


#508 RTH

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 13:13

The Austin Victoria was rather more then an 1100 with a boot. It was the Spanish version of what was known in South Africa as the Austin Apache. It was an 1100/1300 centre with Michelotti designed front and rear which were rather Triumph looking and much more attractive than the Allegro in my eyes.

Austin Victoria De Luxe
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There were plans for an MG Victoria and at least one was built and either exhibited at a car show or brought to the UK for evaluation at Longbridge.


Do agree.

#509 arttidesco

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 13:26

A third contender is Champing at the bit (and it's also an Austin ...).


And a very nice drive the only one I have driven, ex military, was too, specially with that RR motor :smoking:

#510 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 22:57

Gipsys came here in some numbers, although you could never say they were 'prolific'...

From memory, they were used in the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme construction period. Maybe they only had a bunch of them to test them and compare them to Landrovers, but I do recall seeing some about. Not as 'modern' looking as the one above.

Champs were very few and far between here. It seems there was a few of the civilian version came to our shores, otherwise the Mac Healey would never have got its gearbox, but the military versions were certainly used by the army.

#511 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 23:14

The Austin Victoria was rather more then an 1100 with a boot. It was the Spanish version of what was known in South Africa as the Austin Apache. It was an 1100/1300 centre with Michelotti designed front and rear which were rather Triumph looking and much more attractive than the Allegro in my eyes.

Austin Victoria De Luxe
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Austin Apache
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The back end alongside a Dolomite for comparison
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Personally I much prefer the twin headlight front end of the Victoria.

There were plans for an MG Victoria and at least one was built and either exhibited at a car show or brought to the UK for evaluation at Longbridge.

Styling was Triumph 2500 to say the least.
And since ALL the major manufacturers were quite incestuous [Including Chrysler, Ford and GM] in the 60s and 70s most were to a degree Leyland,,,Not BMC. That disappeared about 1969. Rover Triumph, MG Austin, Morris, and in effect the defunct Standard and others were all lumped under the one banner, of mostly dreadfull pommy prams. Triumph 2500 was probably the best of a bad bunch.
All the 50s and 60s Commercials were Morris, Austin but still lumped under the BMC banner.

#512 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 23:20

Gipsys came here in some numbers, although you could never say they were 'prolific'...

From memory, they were used in the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme construction period. Maybe they only had a bunch of them to test them and compare them to Landrovers, but I do recall seeing some about. Not as 'modern' looking as the one above.

Champs were very few and far between here. It seems there was a few of the civilian version came to our shores, otherwise the Mac Healey would never have got its gearbox, but the military versions were certainly used by the army.

They had a few early on the hydro scheme. But were largely overtaken by what is now the largest selling true 4wd,,The Landcruiser. I drove one once, bloody awful, makes a Landrover [Another Leyland acquisition] seem good.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 20 May 2013 - 23:21.


#513 arttidesco

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 23:33

Gipsys came here in some numbers, although you could never say they were 'prolific'...

From memory, they were used in the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme construction period. Maybe they only had a bunch of them to test them and compare them to Landrovers, but I do recall seeing some about. Not as 'modern' looking as the one above.

Champs were very few and far between here. It seems there was a few of the civilian version came to our shores, otherwise the Mac Healey would never have got its gearbox, but the military versions were certainly used by the army.


With only 21,000 + vehicles built in total I doubt Gypsies were ever seen anywhere in great numbers, the UK govt apparently bought several hundred in preparation for nuclear attack, and kept them in storage for 30 years :stoned:

#514 GMACKIE

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 23:38

With only 21,000 + vehicles built in total I doubt Gypsies were ever seen anywhere in great numbers, the UK govt apparently bought several hundred in preparation for nuclear attack, and kept them in storage for 30 years :stoned:

Nuclear attack!!!!

Perhaps they were made of lead...and that's why they were so slow. :rolleyes:


#515 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 23:44

Nuclear attack!!!!

Perhaps they were made of lead...and that's why they were so slow. :rolleyes:

They had to wait for the scrap price to go up to rid themselves of them!

#516 D-Type

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:52

Didn't the Gypsy have rubber suspension? Surely it would perish in 30 years?

#517 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:29

Yes, the Gipsy had rubber suspension...

Maybe they sold replacements? Do Minis have a perishing problem with their suspension?

#518 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:33

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
They had a few early on the hydro scheme. But were largely overtaken by what is now the largest selling true 4wd, the Landcruiser. I drove one once, bloody awful, makes a Landrover [Another Leyland acquisition] seem good.


I'm talking about during construction, Lee...

Perhaps about 1953 or 1954 for the Gipsys, Landcruisers would have only come into their own in the sixties in any number.

#519 arttidesco

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:06

Didn't the Gypsy have rubber suspension? Surely it would perish in 30 years?


Flexitor all round on the SWB's but only on the front of the LWB's :smoking:

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#520 Catalina Park

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:20

I'm talking about during construction, Lee...

Perhaps about 1953 or 1954 for the Gipsys, Landcruisers would have only come into their own in the sixties in any number.

There is a myth being pushed by Toyota that the Landcruiser was the 4WD that built the Snowy Mountains Scheme.
They used 12 Landcruisers and about 1345 Landrovers.

#521 Dipster

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 13:09

Yes, the Gipsy had rubber suspension...

Maybe they sold replacements? Do Minis have a perishing problem with their suspension?



In the UK at least Gypsies could have been ordered with "Flexitor" (rubber) suspension or classic leaf springs. I have no idea which was more popular.

#522 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 13:27

There is a myth being pushed by Toyota that the Landcruiser was the 4WD that built the Snowy Mountains Scheme.
They used 12 Landcruisers and about 1345 Landrovers.

Theiss started with Landcruisers in 1958 on the Snowy scheme.
The 1345 Landrovers were probably used as filling in a dam wall as they broke!
Though it seems Rovers are not part of this thread, or at least ones that old.
rubber springs may have been an advantage on Landrovers as they sure broke a lot of metal ones. They broke more than the odd axle too.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 21 May 2013 - 13:29.


#523 arttidesco

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 14:32

In the UK at least Gypsies could have been ordered with "Flexitor" (rubber) suspension or classic leaf springs. I have no idea which was more popular.


I understood it was Flexitor all round on the SWB but only on the front for the LWB :confused:

#524 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 22:59

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Theiss started with Landcruisers in 1958 on the Snowy scheme.
The 1345 Landrovers were probably used as filling in a dam wall as they broke!
.....rubber springs may have been an advantage on Landrovers as they sure broke a lot of metal ones. They broke more than the odd axle too.


That's a load of inane rubbish, Lee...

It does seem that you are lacking somewhat in knowledge about the Snowy Scheme. Landcruisers weren't even invented when the construction work began in the Snowy (1949), a number of the dams and power stations (including the biggest dam), as well as a lot of tunnelling, were completed before the first Landcruiser ever came into the country (1958)!

If Land Rovers were prone to breaking, someone was fixing them, not burying them in dam walls. All vehicles break something, but you would have to agree that with so many Land Rovers around the world operating in remote parts they must have done something right.

As for the Gipsys, the ones used here must have all been short wheelbase models as the rubber suspension got a lot of attention when they first arrived.

#525 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 23:16

Ray, ask any Landy owner of that period,, and later about what used to break. Answer, springs and axles. Read Len Beadells books, what did he break, springs and axles. I attended a talk by Len decades ago and he gave some insight into the vehicles. They were used hard, though seldom abused and the carried consumeables, springs, axles. Which were changed where they broke.
For the mid 50s they were a decent thing, Jeeps were better for lightly loaded work but did not have the carrying capacity of the Landy. And were not brought in in numbers because of keeping the money in the commonwealth. Then the Japanese invasion [and opening up trade barriers] made most other things obsolete. Though they look VERY primitive now. As Landrovers still do.

#526 Twin Window

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:09

In late-October 2010, my brother & I were requested to provide our old bangers for the set of My Week With Marilyn. This is a screen-grab from the movie's trailer (our BMCers are on the right);

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More recently, I've been on-set with my brother's Morris [Series '1.5'] Isis for the filming of a forthcoming ITV medical period drama 'Breathless' set in 1961. The 'owners' of the car are actors Shaun Dingwall (DI Lewis in 'Above Suspicion') and his wife Joanna Page (Stacey, in 'Gavin and Stacey').

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Thus far, filming has been in Ealing, St Bart's Hospital in Smithfields and Reigate. It's booked for some more dates, with others possibly to follow. The pics aren't in chronological order.

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Long, long days... :well:




#527 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:28

Marvellous stuff! :up:

#528 wolseley680

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:32

Love the 6/80 in "My Week with Marilyn" - my kinda car -:

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Edited by wolseley680, 22 May 2013 - 00:41.


#529 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:11

Yes, it does look smart... they were always a smart looker...

And Stuart, it's good to see those C-series cars getting a look-in!

#530 Dipster

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:26

I understood it was Flexitor all round on the SWB but only on the front for the LWB :confused:



You may be right. I have memories of reading the brochure for the vehicle at the time and thinking it was unusual to offer different suspension systems at all. But it was not exactly yesterday and time may have smudged facts in my head.

But we had a Gypsy in service in the Austin distributor where I worked at that time. It had a Harvey-Frost (remember those?) on the back and was intended for light recoveries. It rarely went out as almost everybody preferred to use the Austin truck chassised (I forget which model) wagon or even the venerable AEC Matador!

#531 arttidesco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:45

You may be right. I have memories of reading the brochure for the vehicle at the time and thinking it was unusual to offer different suspension systems at all. But it was not exactly yesterday and time may have smudged facts in my head.

But we had a Gypsy in service in the Austin distributor where I worked at that time. It had a Harvey-Frost (remember those?) on the back and was intended for light recoveries. It rarely went out as almost everybody preferred to use the Austin truck chassised (I forget which model) wagon or even the venerable AEC Matador!


:up:

Meantime back to Wolseley's

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Another 6/80 were these built in the BMC era ?

Apologies if not :blush:

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Wolseley 4/44 that pops up in the South West from time to time :smoking:

Coming up next week a 6/110 Mk II !

#532 RTH

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:30

Fab pictures Stuart- what a great experience - look forward to seeing the series - keep us posted.

#533 Pete Stowe

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:09

You may be right. I have memories of reading the brochure for the vehicle at the time and thinking it was unusual to offer different suspension systems at all. But it was not exactly yesterday and time may have smudged facts in my head.

But we had a Gypsy in service in the Austin distributor where I worked at that time. It had a Harvey-Frost (remember those?) on the back and was intended for light recoveries. It rarely went out as almost everybody preferred to use the Austin truck chassised (I forget which model) wagon or even the venerable AEC Matador!


According to this website www.austinmemories.com leaf springs were introduced as standard for the Gipsy Series IV, with Flexitor optionally available. So looks like your memory is fine :)

#534 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:46

The Wolseley 6/80 is pre-BMC...

The 4/44 was, like the 6/90, designed pre-BMC. Otherwise they wouldn't have had the (relatively) decent suspensions with which they were endowed.

#535 Catalina Park

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:03

The Wolseley 6/80 is pre-BMC...

The 4/44 was, like the 6/90, designed pre-BMC. Otherwise they wouldn't have had the (relatively) decent suspensions with which they were endowed.

The 6/80 was born a Nuffield but died a BMC. (The Morris Minor was born a Nuffield but died a Leyland!)

#536 arttidesco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 14:39

According to this website www.austinmemories.com leaf springs were introduced as standard for the Gipsy Series IV, with Flexitor optionally available. So looks like your memory is fine :)


:up:

#537 Dipster

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 14:42

According to this website www.austinmemories.com leaf springs were introduced as standard for the Gipsy Series IV, with Flexitor optionally available. So looks like your memory is fine :)



Thanks. It's reassuring to know that senility is still being held at bay!

Edited by Dipster, 23 May 2013 - 08:04.


#538 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 22:22

Originally posted by Catalina Park
The 6/80 was born a Nuffield but died a BMC. (The Morris Minor was born a Nuffield but died a Leyland!)


Good point...

However, my reference to the 6/80, 6/90 and 4/44 related to their design period. There was nothing, as far as I know, ever got changed from the Nuffield content of the 6/80 to BMC or Austin bits.

The 6/90 was all Nuffield-style design work in the body and suspension. Brakes were shared with other BMC product as well as the whole drivetrain.

The 4/44 was likewise endowed with all Nuffield components, though I'm not sure about the diff... and perhaps the gearbox in later models, but I don't think so. The stablemate MG Magnette, however, was produced with B-series ADO mechanicals throughout.

Obviously the design work on several models was ongoing during the period leading up to the merger and they had to keep at least some of these designs as so much time was invested in them. I just wonder what was really planned for the power unit of the 6/90 had there not been a merger?

Other cars were affected, of course. The concurrent Morris 6, and Wolseley 4/50 and Morris Oxford began as Nuffields. The Oxford was to have the B-series mechanicals grafted in as it continued in production awaiting the restyle of 1953/54. As far as I know, the Morris 6 continued unchanged and was replaced by the Isis, yet another model to see Nuffield underpinnings and ADO drivetrain, while the 4/50 was clearly replaced by the 4/44.

To my way of thinking, any time BMC ordered in quantities of Girling telescopic front dampers rather than Armstrong lever-action types they were doing their customers a huge favour.



#539 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 22:25

Oh yeah... I forgot the Riley Pathfinder...

Nuffield and Riley through and through (well, maybe not brakes).

But the ADO got their way eventually and it became the Riley Two Point Six... all ADO under a Nuffield-designed skin and on a Nuffield-designed suspension.

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#540 wolseley680

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 00:05

Has anybody heard of the story that the last of the 6/80s had the 6/90 C series motor? I was told by a guy out here in Oz and he claimed to have owned one but scrapped it years ago because it was in such poor condition. He also said a few went to NZ. The first of the 6/90s was a column change but I don't know if the 6/90 g/box would fit in a 6/80 or if a 6/80 g/box could be adapted to a C series motor.

#541 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 00:35

Anything can be adapted...

BMC had a huge array of bellhousing patterns, different clutch slave cylinder and fork locations, starter locations etc.

I've not ever heard of that proposition at all, but I would seriously doubt it. Stuart would be one of the most knowledgeable in this area, maybe he can answer the question.

I always understood it to be that the first of the 6/90s had the floor change (over in a cutout corner of the driver's seat, next to the door, while the later ones went to a column change. Possibly at the same time they went from coil springs in the rear to leaf springs.

#542 Odseybod

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:08

I always understood it to be that the first of the 6/90s had the floor change (over in a cutout corner of the driver's seat, next to the door, while the later ones went to a column change. Possibly at the same time they went from coil springs in the rear to leaf springs.


The suspension change of course echoing the Pathfinder's switch from rear coils to leaf-springs (or pre-dating it?), in a bid to banish its Ditchfinder soubriquet.

I believe (but will have to check some road tests) that the 6/90 - at least in the UK - started with a column shift, then adopted the right-hand floor shift that the Pathfinder had from the start, the switch happening with the Series II 6/90 (1956) which also introduced the revised rear suspension. Ray will no doubt tell me if I've got this wrong!

#543 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:37

Please leave that to Stuart...

Ray has only a smattering of knowledge about these things!

Didn't the Pathfinder also have a torque tube?

#544 DJH

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 22:57

The Pathfinder also had an unusual gear shift location, RHS of the driver's seat.

#545 Twin Window

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 23:28

The suspension change of course echoing the Pathfinder's switch from rear coils to leaf-springs (or pre-dating it?), in a bid to banish its Ditchfinder soubriquet.

I believe (but will have to check some road tests) that the 6/90 - at least in the UK - started with a column shift, then adopted the right-hand floor shift that the Pathfinder had from the start, the switch happening with the Series II 6/90 (1956) which also introduced the revised rear suspension. Ray will no doubt tell me if I've got this wrong!


Regarding the 6/90s this is entirely correct, although I have no knowledge regarding the Pathfinders.

The rear suspension change from coil to leaf was largely driven, I believe, by the police who were very unhappy about the Series I's propensity to change direction mid-corner. The Series II was far better equipped with leaf rear springs, and other changes over & above the switch from column to floor change were the dashboard and rear light assembly. Only about a thousand were made between October 1956 and May 1957. My SII is, so I'm told, the only example on the UK roads today.

The final derivative was the Series III which was little different to the SII save for a new boot badge, a padded 'safety' strip across the top of the dashboard and - most noticeable of all - a wider rear screen.

EDIT: Just to add in response to Ray's comments pertaining to matters of a technical nature, it's my bother who needs to answer that! However, I learned just in the last week that the C Series engines came in both low and high compression specs. Apparently it's denoted in the engine number, but as my 6/90 is currently being attended to in the paint shop I can't tell which version it is. The likelihood is that it's a low-comp version, apparently, as it was an export example as-new.

#546 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 00:29

That's right, Stuart...

The engine number will begin with '26WAH' for a high compression automatic in a Wolseley, '26NOL' for a low compression with overdrive box in an Austin. Or in the later models, '29NOH', '29WAH' etc.

My first one was 29NOH14432 from memory. 'N' for Austin, 'W' obviously for Wolseley, undoubtedly there were 'M' and 'R' derivatives. 'H' for high compression, 'L' for low compression

#547 GreenMachine

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:57

Tell me if these are out-of-era, and I will remove them ...

Taken on a car club visit to an 1883 steam driven pump on a steaming day, it was a popular car club outing ...

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This is the short cabin model ...

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with the large derriere ...

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Presumably a one-off customised by someone who fancied American cars of a certain vintage, I have never seen anything like it before. Unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to seek out the owner and get any details, but a couple of the locals who are on here may know something about its story.

(Mods: I have permission to use these two photos)

#548 RTH

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:19

:up:

Meantime back to Wolseley's

Posted Image

Another 6/80 were these built in the BMC era ?

Apologies if not :blush:

Posted Image

Wolseley 4/44 that pops up in the South West from time to time :smoking:

Coming up next week a 6/110 Mk II !



Anyone remember' Fabian of the Yard ' police series about Scotland Yard in the 1950s ? they used to rush about in these with a chrome bell above the front bumper ringing furiously.


Or indeed this "No Hiding Place "








Edited by RTH, 27 May 2013 - 16:39.


#549 RCH

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:51

Anyone remember' Fabian of the Yard ' police series about Scotland Yard in the 1950s ? they used to rush about in these with a chrome bell above the front bumper ringing furiously.


Or indeed this "No Hiding Place "


If my memory serves me corectly, and I was very young at the time, Fabian of the Yard was driven around in a Humber Hawk.

#550 wagons46

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:26

If my memory serves me corectly, and I was very young at the time, Fabian of the Yard was driven around in a Humber Hawk.


And a good memory you have too. It was indeed a Humber Hawk, or at least for some of the episodes. A reasonably large car but for some reason Fabian sat all crunched up in the back seat in the right hand corner. Yes I know the camera angle bit would explain that.


Edited by wagons46, 27 May 2013 - 22:30.