Jump to content


Photo

End of the F1 road for Cosworth?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 5,723 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 01 October 2006 - 13:33

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/54797


Looks very much as if Cosworth's part in Grand Prix racing dating back 40 years will now come to an end in just 2 races time ?

The achievements of the DFV will surely never be equalled ?

Posted Image

Advertisement

#2 FerrariV12

FerrariV12
  • Member

  • 343 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 01 October 2006 - 17:34

A crying shame indeed. Although there are rumblings of them being linked to Prodrive's entry in 2008, which would I imagine involve an extensive 2007 testing program - I keep hearing rumours that Dave Richards is set on becoming a McLaren-Mercedes "B" team - short term at least.

Cosworth are still being kept busy, and from going out of business probably, supplying the Champ Car spec-engine, but for me that's not the same, since competition (as opposed to supply contracts) is the lifeblood of the company. No doubt if the manufacturers bolt from F1 then nobody would be better placed to step into the breach as a supplier, much in the manner of the late 80's, early 90's, but no, the achievements of the DFV will probably never be equalled, by them or anyone else for that matter.

#3 dretceterini

dretceterini
  • Member

  • 2,991 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 02 October 2006 - 01:57

Wasn't the last Cosworth F1 win in 1999?

#4 cosworth bdg

cosworth bdg
  • Member

  • 1,350 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:00

All good things must come to an end sooner or latter and technology has caught up with them...............................................

#5 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,694 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:23

I think I'd rather say that they've reached a 'plateau' in their technology and are struggling to get across it...

#6 cosworth bdg

cosworth bdg
  • Member

  • 1,350 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:34

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I think I'd rather say that they've reached a 'plateau' in their technology and are struggling to get across it...

Ray, without the backing of a manufacturer they will never bridge the TECHNOLOGY gap , money talks................ Does F1 really need COSWORTH, i do not think so...........................Champ Cars and HISTORICS is may be their FUTURE, F1 for COSWORTH is now past tense..........

#7 cosworth bdg

cosworth bdg
  • Member

  • 1,350 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 02 October 2006 - 03:09

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Ray, without the backing of a manufacturer they will never bridge the TECHNOLOGY gap , money talks................ Does F1 really need COSWORTH, i do not think so...........................Champ Cars and HISTORICS is may be their FUTURE, F1 for COSWORTH is now past tense..........

VICKERS LTD and FORD must have had a vision into the future when it came to Cosworth............

#8 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 02 October 2006 - 09:10

In many ways I'm sad to see Cosworth go, but F1 now is so explicitly about big manufacturer engines that Cosworth-without-Ford was always going to fall by the wayside unless another manufacturer bought it. The new V8 was out there, early, and powerful on the bench and I had hoped that someone whose engine was underperforming might've leapt in and badged it mentioning no names, Toyota?. But it seems that this year Cosworth cracked under the strain; reliability suffered (and that's something I always felt they were good at).

They're still out there with the Champcar and Atlantic engines and that 3.6 twin-turbo sports car V8 looks good, it'd be nice to see that taking on the diesels... and there's Cosworth machinery out there in a lot of other series and guises, and no doubt lots of other racing projects that they're not disposed to talk about. "Making a living messing about with racing engines"....;)

Yes, it'll seem odd to have an F1 season with no Cosworth engines on the grid, but if I had to be objective I'd say they started to lose their way in F1 when the DFV became uncompetitive and have been on the back foot ever since the long-drawn-out genesis of the GBA turbo. The DFZ/DFR were never more than cold soup warmed up; the HB started to look good and in '93 the combination of that sweet little engine and clever electronics from Benetton and McLaren-Tag made them look like they were going to become a major force again. 94 and the Zetec.... yes, nice engine but that was always a 'tainted' championship for me, too much fiddling with the rules. As for the V10 programme, I always felt it was profoundly disappointing; then again Cosworth were coming in at a point when Renault had already debugged the basic mechanical aspect of V10s and Ford weren't throwing enough money at them.

The "house that Keith built" was never quite the same after the demise of the DFV, for me. That it survived in F1 so long after that remarkable engine is a tribute to a lot of fine engineers, technicians and managers, but I think the era that gave us Cosworth has well and truly ended.

#9 Vicuna

Vicuna
  • Member

  • 1,588 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 02 October 2006 - 18:11

Well put Pete.

#10 cosworth bdg

cosworth bdg
  • Member

  • 1,350 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 03 October 2006 - 00:48

Originally posted by petefenelon
In many ways I'm sad to see Cosworth go, but F1 now is so explicitly about big manufacturer engines that Cosworth-without-Ford was always going to fall by the wayside unless another manufacturer bought it. The new V8 was out there, early, and powerful on the bench and I had hoped that someone whose engine was underperforming might've leapt in and badged it mentioning no names, Toyota?. But it seems that this year Cosworth cracked under the strain; reliability suffered (and that's something I always felt they were good at).

They're still out there with the Champcar and Atlantic engines and that 3.6 twin-turbo sports car V8 looks good, it'd be nice to see that taking on the diesels... and there's Cosworth machinery out there in a lot of other series and guises, and no doubt lots of other racing projects that they're not disposed to talk about. "Making a living messing about with racing engines"....;)

Yes, it'll seem odd to have an F1 season with no Cosworth engines on the grid, but if I had to be objective I'd say they started to lose their way in F1 when the DFV became uncompetitive and have been on the back foot ever since the long-drawn-out genesis of the GBA turbo. The DFZ/DFR were never more than cold soup warmed up; the HB started to look good and in '93 the combination of that sweet little engine and clever electronics from Benetton and McLaren-Tag made them look like they were going to become a major force again. 94 and the Zetec.... yes, nice engine but that was always a 'tainted' championship for me, too much fiddling with the rules. As for the V10 programme, I always felt it was profoundly disappointing; then again Cosworth were coming in at a point when Renault had already debugged the basic mechanical aspect of V10s and Ford weren't throwing enough money at them.

The "house that Keith built" was never quite the same after the demise of the DFV, for me. That it survived in F1 so long after that remarkable engine is a tribute to a lot of fine engineers, technicians and managers, but I think the era that gave us Cosworth has well and truly ended.

Very sad indeed, but a truely remarkable era has now come to an END.

#11 FerrariV12

FerrariV12
  • Member

  • 343 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 03 October 2006 - 20:47

Originally posted by dretceterini
Wasn't the last Cosworth F1 win in 1999?


2003 Brazilian GP with Giancarlo Fisichella's Jordan

#12 cosworth bdg

cosworth bdg
  • Member

  • 1,350 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 05 October 2006 - 00:50

Originally posted by FerrariV12


2003 Brazilian GP with Giancarlo Fisichella's Jordan

Are you sure?

#13 FerrariV12

FerrariV12
  • Member

  • 343 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 05 October 2006 - 12:27

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Are you sure?


Yeah....at least I hope so! Kimi Raikkonen was originally awarded the win in the confusion over the premature end of the race, but Fisi was re-instated as the winner about a week later...

#14 bigbrickz

bigbrickz
  • Member

  • 587 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 05 October 2006 - 13:48

Originally posted by petefenelon
But it seems that this year Cosworth cracked under the strain; reliability suffered (and that's something I always felt they were good at).

I was under the impression that a fair amount of the Williams' lack of reliability was down to Williams themselves (exhausts braking, hydraulics coming loose, etc.). I haven't studied this carefuly so my impressions could be completely wrong of course.

#15 cosworth bdg

cosworth bdg
  • Member

  • 1,350 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 19 October 2006 - 00:28

Originally posted by bigbrickz

I was under the impression that a fair amount of the Williams' lack of reliability was down to Williams themselves (exhausts braking, hydraulics coming loose, etc.). I haven't studied this carefuly so my impressions could be completely wrong of course.

I belive your impression of this organisation are very correct, and unfortunately Cosworth are falling with them.....................

#16 Maldwyn

Maldwyn
  • Member

  • 1,486 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:17

I would hope that the likes of Cosworth are still around, and willing to pick up the pieces, when (not if) manufacturers tire of spending vast sums of money just to get into the top eight.