End of the F1 road for Cosworth?
#1
Posted 01 October 2006 - 13:33
Looks very much as if Cosworth's part in Grand Prix racing dating back 40 years will now come to an end in just 2 races time ?
The achievements of the DFV will surely never be equalled ?
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#2
Posted 01 October 2006 - 17:34
Cosworth are still being kept busy, and from going out of business probably, supplying the Champ Car spec-engine, but for me that's not the same, since competition (as opposed to supply contracts) is the lifeblood of the company. No doubt if the manufacturers bolt from F1 then nobody would be better placed to step into the breach as a supplier, much in the manner of the late 80's, early 90's, but no, the achievements of the DFV will probably never be equalled, by them or anyone else for that matter.
#3
Posted 02 October 2006 - 01:57
#4
Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:00
#5
Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:23
#6
Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:34
Ray, without the backing of a manufacturer they will never bridge the TECHNOLOGY gap , money talks................ Does F1 really need COSWORTH, i do not think so...........................Champ Cars and HISTORICS is may be their FUTURE, F1 for COSWORTH is now past tense..........Originally posted by Ray Bell
I think I'd rather say that they've reached a 'plateau' in their technology and are struggling to get across it...
#7
Posted 02 October 2006 - 03:09
VICKERS LTD and FORD must have had a vision into the future when it came to Cosworth............Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Ray, without the backing of a manufacturer they will never bridge the TECHNOLOGY gap , money talks................ Does F1 really need COSWORTH, i do not think so...........................Champ Cars and HISTORICS is may be their FUTURE, F1 for COSWORTH is now past tense..........
#8
Posted 02 October 2006 - 09:10
They're still out there with the Champcar and Atlantic engines and that 3.6 twin-turbo sports car V8 looks good, it'd be nice to see that taking on the diesels... and there's Cosworth machinery out there in a lot of other series and guises, and no doubt lots of other racing projects that they're not disposed to talk about. "Making a living messing about with racing engines"....;)
Yes, it'll seem odd to have an F1 season with no Cosworth engines on the grid, but if I had to be objective I'd say they started to lose their way in F1 when the DFV became uncompetitive and have been on the back foot ever since the long-drawn-out genesis of the GBA turbo. The DFZ/DFR were never more than cold soup warmed up; the HB started to look good and in '93 the combination of that sweet little engine and clever electronics from Benetton and McLaren-Tag made them look like they were going to become a major force again. 94 and the Zetec.... yes, nice engine but that was always a 'tainted' championship for me, too much fiddling with the rules. As for the V10 programme, I always felt it was profoundly disappointing; then again Cosworth were coming in at a point when Renault had already debugged the basic mechanical aspect of V10s and Ford weren't throwing enough money at them.
The "house that Keith built" was never quite the same after the demise of the DFV, for me. That it survived in F1 so long after that remarkable engine is a tribute to a lot of fine engineers, technicians and managers, but I think the era that gave us Cosworth has well and truly ended.
#9
Posted 02 October 2006 - 18:11
#10
Posted 03 October 2006 - 00:48
Very sad indeed, but a truely remarkable era has now come to an END.Originally posted by petefenelon
In many ways I'm sad to see Cosworth go, but F1 now is so explicitly about big manufacturer engines that Cosworth-without-Ford was always going to fall by the wayside unless another manufacturer bought it. The new V8 was out there, early, and powerful on the bench and I had hoped that someone whose engine was underperforming might've leapt in and badged it mentioning no names, Toyota?. But it seems that this year Cosworth cracked under the strain; reliability suffered (and that's something I always felt they were good at).
They're still out there with the Champcar and Atlantic engines and that 3.6 twin-turbo sports car V8 looks good, it'd be nice to see that taking on the diesels... and there's Cosworth machinery out there in a lot of other series and guises, and no doubt lots of other racing projects that they're not disposed to talk about. "Making a living messing about with racing engines"....;)
Yes, it'll seem odd to have an F1 season with no Cosworth engines on the grid, but if I had to be objective I'd say they started to lose their way in F1 when the DFV became uncompetitive and have been on the back foot ever since the long-drawn-out genesis of the GBA turbo. The DFZ/DFR were never more than cold soup warmed up; the HB started to look good and in '93 the combination of that sweet little engine and clever electronics from Benetton and McLaren-Tag made them look like they were going to become a major force again. 94 and the Zetec.... yes, nice engine but that was always a 'tainted' championship for me, too much fiddling with the rules. As for the V10 programme, I always felt it was profoundly disappointing; then again Cosworth were coming in at a point when Renault had already debugged the basic mechanical aspect of V10s and Ford weren't throwing enough money at them.
The "house that Keith built" was never quite the same after the demise of the DFV, for me. That it survived in F1 so long after that remarkable engine is a tribute to a lot of fine engineers, technicians and managers, but I think the era that gave us Cosworth has well and truly ended.
#11
Posted 03 October 2006 - 20:47
Originally posted by dretceterini
Wasn't the last Cosworth F1 win in 1999?
2003 Brazilian GP with Giancarlo Fisichella's Jordan
#12
Posted 05 October 2006 - 00:50
Are you sure?Originally posted by FerrariV12
2003 Brazilian GP with Giancarlo Fisichella's Jordan
#13
Posted 05 October 2006 - 12:27
Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Are you sure?
Yeah....at least I hope so! Kimi Raikkonen was originally awarded the win in the confusion over the premature end of the race, but Fisi was re-instated as the winner about a week later...
#14
Posted 05 October 2006 - 13:48
I was under the impression that a fair amount of the Williams' lack of reliability was down to Williams themselves (exhausts braking, hydraulics coming loose, etc.). I haven't studied this carefuly so my impressions could be completely wrong of course.Originally posted by petefenelon
But it seems that this year Cosworth cracked under the strain; reliability suffered (and that's something I always felt they were good at).
#15
Posted 19 October 2006 - 00:28
I belive your impression of this organisation are very correct, and unfortunately Cosworth are falling with them.....................Originally posted by bigbrickz
I was under the impression that a fair amount of the Williams' lack of reliability was down to Williams themselves (exhausts braking, hydraulics coming loose, etc.). I haven't studied this carefuly so my impressions could be completely wrong of course.
#16
Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:17