82 replies to this topic

[lole66]

Hello !

I am building the Brabham BT33 #14 (scale 1/24), drove by Carlos Reutemann in the Victory Race at Brands Hatch on the 24th October 1971.
I am really confused regarding the color used by the BT33…turquese…dark green ?? I have a picture which was downloaded from internet but it is in black/white !!, so I can not define the color used…also, I could see to Jack Brabham driving the BT33…sometimes with a turquese color, and sometimes dark green...
I asked to journalists, here in Argentina, and they told me that the color was green/yellow, because those colors were the australian color...but I am not sure...
Somebody could help me ?

Thanks lot
regards
Pablo.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Hello "lole" I can only tell you it was turquoise , and some downloads or pictures on the net can be very different. I only consider myself a specialist( in some areas) and I am sure the experts will respond , so just be patient , it will come!
Regards Bjørn Kjer

[Barry Boor]

I would be very surprised if the car was green.

IIRC no factory-entered Brabhams were ever green after 1969.

I think it was almost certainly the turquoise blue and yellow that was used in 1970 and 1971.

I am sure Mr. Ryder will be able to confirm the correct colour.

[Twin Window]

Here's a recent shot - I can't recall who took it - of the restored 1971 BT34, resplendent in the same colours as worn by the BT33s in 1970.

[macoran]

These may give you an idea

http://images.google...ttp...6lr=&sa=G

http://www.racingspo...1-03-21-002.jpg

[Arjan de Roos]

Now those are the correct colors indeed. Lole66: you may find also some pics in good F1 color photo books such as those by Schlegelmilch.

But then I wonder: why did Brabham use these colors. Was it what McLaren later did for there cigarette sponsor: to get a better look on TV? Dayglo used to look red on TV, while in reality it burns in your eyes. Maserati red looks good in real, but on TV might become a little obscure and darkish red.

[2F-001]

Hi, the 'Lobster Claw' pic was mine and from memory I don't think the car was quite so stridently blue in reality - some of the first BT33 pic in macoran's link seems to feel a bit more realistic. Mind you, most of our monitors will look different anyway!

(The BT34 was pictured in the second half of the nineties - I have forgotten for the moment exactly the year - I assume it may have repainted at some time in its more recent history, but it did seem very much like I remebered it from '71.
If I could find the negs I could tell you exactly where it was taken... most probably Pau-Arnos or Grand Sambuc, but certainly in the South of France.)

[Twin Window]

You're right about monitors, but I had a wee fiddle and changed it anyway. We went through the same process when you originally posted it, IIRC - and Andrew Kitson came to the rescue that time!

[David Shaw]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
But then I wonder: why did Brabham use these colors.

Possibly harking back to the colour of the original F1 Brabham, the BT3, which was turquoise.

[Bjorn Kjer]

macorans links and Twinny / 2Fs pic : thats what I meant ,what a difference in colours !!! The same goes for the pics I have seen of the BT3 ! Looking forward to your solutions.
Regards Bjørn

[red stick]

One runs in the Historic Grand Prix events. This site has several photos.

http://www.historicg.....bham BT33.htm

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by David Shaw


Possibly harking back to the colour of the original F1 Brabham, the BT3, which was turquoise.

I'm assuming the green/gold was at least partly at Repco's insistence, Australian national sporting colours and all that. Once they'd gone as backer/engine supplier... presumably Sir Jack was free to run whatever colours he liked?

[Bjorn Kjer]

That I dont think Pete , because in 68 they were green and yellow and that was with the last Repco(the failure). For 69 they had the DFVs!

[David M. Kane]

The Tasman car was at VIR 2 weeks ago and it was the same colors as the BT-34 shot of TW and the BT-33 from the Brian Redman 2002 race. Also I was at the USGP in 1970 and that is way I remembered it in the day.

[David McKinney]

Which Tasman car?

[lole66]

Thanks a lot to all the people who are answering my question...

I have two comments about the color of the BT33...

As Barry Boor say the turquoise blue and yellow that was used in 1970 and 1971, so before those years the color was green/yellow...right ?
But, I would like to mention the following:

The BT33 drove by Reutemann in 1971 (October) had the same shape than the BT33 drove by Graham Hill and Wilson Fittipaldi in 1972 (check the nose and the "air capture"), but the color was different:
Reutemann 1971 = ?? ,
Hill, Fittipladi = white BT33.

I don't know how to "paste" a picture in this Forum, in order to show you the BT33s.

Thank you !!

Pablo

[David M. Kane]

David:

The BT31, Peter McLaughlin bought it in London recently.

[David Lawson]

Pablo

I didn't get a shot of Reutemann but this is team-mate Schenken at the 1971 Victory Race, with the nose cone and airbox you describe. In the bright autumn sun this colour is as I remember it.



David

[lole66]

Hello David !!!

that picture is gold !!! That is the same car/color drove by Reutemann
Even, the nose had a little difference compared with the BT33 drove by Hill and Wilson Fittipaldi in 1972 ( South Africa GP).

The color looks a very special green but not turquoise...what do you think ?

Thank you so much,
best regards
Pablo.

[David M. Kane]

lole66:

Trust me it's the light! The BT-34 shot IS the correct color...I seen ALL of these cars in the flesh in the day and very, very recently...like three to five times a year for the last 5 years...I wouldn't pull your leg on such an important matter...

[lole66]

Hello David,

thank you so much !
So, I have to re-paint my BT33 , it was painted with a mix of green (80%) / blue (20%)...but now, I have to paint it turquoise !!

thanks again to you and to all the people which answered my question...

best regards
Pablo.

[Twin Window]

Renowned helmet artist Mike Fairholme - who posts here as mfd - is also a model collector, and has asked me if I'd post this pic on his behalf.



This is an FDS 1/43 kit supplied to Mike by UK model manufacturer John Shinton. Mike painted it using Peugeot Bleu Ocean, which was the colour match suggested by Shinton - who has himself created a kit of the BT34.

It might be worth bearing in mind that Mike's photo was taken under artificial light, and *could* therefore slightly misrepresent the hue. It certainly seems to be one of those colours which gets affected by differing natural light conditions.

By way of a comparison, here's Hill in the BT34 at the same race that David took the pic of his team mate Schenken...

[Barry Boor]

Just to add to the confusion, I knew I had a BT.33 picture somewhere.

I found it, scanned it and Photo-shopped it. Here is the result.

[Twin Window]

Or even, with your permission, Barry...

[Barry Boor]

So what did you do to it, Twinny?

[David Lawson]

Here's a photo I took of Schenken's BT33 at the 1971 British Grand Prix on a sunnier day than Barry's photograph but still closer in shade than the very blue restored car and the model.



David

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Barry Boor

So what did you do to it, Twinny?

Auto colour, auto contrast and it still looked too reddy to me, so I manually dropped it by -10 (I think) on the cyan-red bar. Actually, I think I adjusted the hue a little too.

As I commented earlier, and as David's sunny image illustrates, it does seem to be an *odd* colour - by that I mean like the 'Miami Blue' used by Leyton House. That colour caused nightmares for the team; it came out differently from one film brand to another, and was impossible to match in print & paper, clothing or vynil/stickers.

And the film quality of the 60s/70s was even more inconsistant...

I recall the yellow on the Brabhams of that time as being a bright, clean hue as opposed to maybe a little orangey. So, with that in mind, I had a fiddle with David's last shot which naturally had a knock-on effect on the blue;

[lole66]

This is a picture obtained form a magazine edited in Argentine. Please, note the "nose" and "air capture" of the BT33.



so, I decided to paint the BT33 in green color...


In 1972 the BT33 was painted in white color:



So, the BT33 had the following colors:

green/yellow '68, '69
turquoise : '70, '71
white: '72

So the question is: is there any possibility that the BT33 with the new "nose" / "air capture" has had a different color than "turquoise" ??

Anyway, I think that David M. Kane is right...

thanks to all,
Pablo.

[Twin Window]

Pablo - you need to use something like Image Shack in order to make your photos appear on the thread. There is a thread for the benefit of members here!

[David M. Kane]

Lole66:

Take a look at www.historicgrandprix.com.

[macoran]

Originally posted by lole66
This is a picture obtained form a magazine edited in Argentine. Please, note the "nose" and "air capture" of the BT33.

I've seen a pic of the BT33 with this air "capture" intake in this colour scheme somewhere....I'll start digging, IIRC
G Hill drove it.

I see in the caption of the side view..........."costa la vida a Jo Siffert" so it might be that race in which Seppi crashed and was killed.

[Stoatspeed]

If you want to be really confused, here is a BT33 in dark green and yellow livery ...



A real car (BT33-3, IIRC), but in it's later (1973) use as a hillclimb car. The livery is that of Tony Griffiths' Kidderminster Motors dealership, and was previously used on his BT35X-Repco chassis too.
The front wings might actually be the same shade of yellow as the real works livery, but the stripe on the side looks brighter to me .... a long time ago, so I don't remember if it all matched.

Dave

[Twin Window]

I think we've covered this BT33 before, in the hillclimb thread...



I don't think that is was ever supposed to replicate the GP derivative (my pic from Shelsley, 1975).

[dretceterini]

My memory is not the best it has ever been, but I remember the cars being more green than blue turquoise, with a little metalic in them. Of course, I could be totally wrong....

[2F-001]

Originally posted by lole66
So, the BT33 had the following colors:
green/yellow '68, '69
turquoise : '70, '71
white: '72

A BT33 in '68 and '69? Surely not?

[lole66]

Hello Tony,

Basically I want to know the color of the Brabham BT33 #14 (scale 1/24), drove by Carlos Reutemann in the Victory Race at Brands Hatch on the 24th October 1971.

Below, the car drove by Reutemann (#14)





thank you !
Pablo.

[Barry Boor]

Pablo, Tony's point is that the BT.33 never appeared until 1970. The 1968 and 1969 cars had lower numbers; BT.24 and BT.26.

Apart from the later repaints, as I mentioned earlier, no factory Grand Prix BT.33s were ever green.

There is an earlier Brabham F.1 car at Donington. It is not painted in the 1962, pre-green, light turquoisy colour, but is, I think, pretty close to the 1970-71 shade.

Indoor photos are always iffy, but:

[Wolf]

Barry, now that You've posted the pic, I had to go look for a period 'outdoor' photo I remember nicking somewhere (I believe it might have been Crosswinds site):



Hope it helps.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Twin Window
This is an FDS 1/43 kit supplied to Mike by UK model manufacturer John Shinton. Mike painted it using Peugeot Bleu Ocean, which was the colour match suggested by Shinton - who has himself created a kit of the BT34.

FDS stands for Francesco de Statio. An italian model car maker from Napoli. FDS was a kit model make of the seventies/eighties, making many F1 kits. They made their first ones under guidance of John Day.
One of De Stasio sons started the die cast make Top Model. While De Stasio sr. now work Alfa Model with his other son.

This Brabham kit is one of their best as the maker of the model prototype (from which all parts are casted) was none other than Vincenzo Bosica. Who did some prototypes with other makes, before setting off his own kits and handbuilt models. He set the standard for high detail kits mid eighties.

http://www.bosica.com/default.htm

(site is in Italian, but have a look at the models, all in 1/43rd scale, except for the one-off Laverda he keeps for himself..)

[macoran]

Originally posted by macoran


I've seen a pic of the BT33 with this air "capture" intake in this colour scheme somewhere....I'll start digging, IIRC
G Hill drove it. No he didn't

I see in the caption of the side view..........."costa la vida a Jo Siffert" so it might be that race in which Seppi crashed and was killed.

Found the pic.

[Twin Window]

Or, after some fiddling...

[Bjorn Kjer]

Sorry guys , I am a bit slow ? I take this a bit further :

1962 : Turquoise light blueish with gold stripe rounding nose.
1963 : BRG (dark-not the darkest) with gold stripe rounding nose
1964 : ditto
1965 : ditto
1966 : ditto
1967 : ditto
1968 : BRG with yellow stripe a la Lotus 1964/5
1969 : ditto
1970 : Turquoise light blueish (as 62) with yellow stipe
1971 : Turquoise light blueish on BT34 lobster claw with yellow markings
ditto on BT33 but later in the year altered to:
Turquoise more greenish on BT33 altered nose and yellow stripe
1972 : White

Please correct me!

[lole66]

Hello Marc,

yes, in October 1971, during the Victory Race, Jo Siffert had a fatal accident.
That race was the second one of Reutemann. He was invited to that race.

Pablo

P.S: thanks to all !!!

[David M. Kane]

lole66:

Do you know any good race car painters or car painters in general? I think you have real challenge on your hands.

[Wolf]

I think most have missed the opportunity to define the exact hue- it seems to be the same as Indy Cooper.

[lole66]

Hello,

anyway, I am very happy because I obtained pictures where I can see how the "nose" of the BT33 was made. I tried to obtain that kind of picture in the web without success, but now, I have it !!

So, for me, the car was painted with the color showed in the picture sent by Twin Window. This is the car and, aprox, the color.

thanks to all !!
regards,

Pablo.

[David Lawson]

I think everyone has done well to avoid mentioning the Indy Cooper and the recent Eagle rebuild!

I still can't agree with the very blue tints to the various pictures here that "Mr Adobe" has produced. My recollections of the BT33 and 34 during 1970 and 71 at the four events I attended are of the the greener hue and when I look through my countless books and magazines in my collection almost all of the photographs are of this colour.

Just by chance today I was looking at my copy of Michael Turner's Monaco book and in his painting of Ronnie Peterson at Tabac he has included Graham Hill's crashed BT34 in the background, this is also depicted in the greener hue and I am inclined to trust the marvellous Mr Turner's artistic eye.

David

[lole66]

Hi David,

maybe the color showed in this magazine is closer to the real color.




green ? turquoise greenish ?

thank you
regards
Pablo.

[Andre Acker]

Just by chance today I was looking at my copy of Michael Turner's Monaco book and in his painting of Ronnie Peterson at Tabac he has included Graham Hill's crashed BT34 in the background, this is also depicted in the greener hue and I am inclined to trust the marvellous Mr Turner's artistic eye.

David [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi David,

Can you show us this Michael Turner painting about the 1971 Monaco GP ?

VBR.
André Acker.

[lole66]

Hi Andre,

maybe, this is the color,



Regards y thanks !
Pablo.