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#151 Mal9444

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 22:44

Came across this while browsing YouTube


The only label on it is Le Mans crash - incredible flip. Does anyone know what it is, other than a car clearly taking off and somersaulting because of air pressure under the front end, presumably on the Mulsanne straight? Reminds me of the footage of Donald Campbell's fatal flip in Bluebird. But how caused in a car?

May have been discussed before - but a quick preliminary search of this BB did not reveal anything - perhaps because I used the wrong keywords.

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#152 E.B.

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 22:48

That's the famous Peter Dumbreck incident from 1999, one of several attempts on the altitude record by the team that weekend.

#153 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 23:16

Another large flipping incident, during one of this year's Grand-Am, and one to put down to poor circuit design.



#154 scheivlak

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 23:20

Originally posted by E.B.
That's the famous Peter Dumbreck incident from 1999, one of several attempts on the altitude record by the team that weekend.

The search BB for "Dumbreck Mans" gives these results: http://forums.autosp...rder=descending
Some interesting stuff.

#155 Mal9444

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 23:33

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
Another large flipping incident, during one of this year's Grand-Am, and one to put down to poor circuit design.


Fantastic - believe I counted six full end-over-end flips. Is that a record? But one can see plainly how the accident was caused.

I'm afraid the 'Dumbreck Incident of 1999' does not of itself enlighten me much, such is the paucity of my knowledge - but no doubt it is the lead I need for a Google search, so I thnk you kindly. Off to Google I go. Many thanks.

#156 Mal9444

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 23:42

E.B - thank you. A moment on Google, then Wikepdia, satisfied my curiousity. I note the car is not in the MB museum, but was sold to a private collector. Presumably with a Health Warning not to follow close friends down bumpy roads.

Many thanks.

:up:

#157 flat-16

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 21:28

Originally posted by Kingsleyrob
An interesting selection of clips called The History of Motor Racing , one of them here ...



Not my favourite era (I'm more of a '55 to '75 man), but interesting shots of AVUS and Montlhery, and some heroic drivers.

Plus a new meaning to 'a large Campari', with tragic footage of his final race.

Rob :wave:


I hope you can forgive me for repeating the request, but I would be obliged if anyone could shed some light on the name of the film.

YouTube breaches a fair amount of copyright, so I think it's only right to make the effort to purchase something when it takes your fancy.

Thanks.

Justin

#158 paulhooft

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 08:56

The name of the movie is Shell History of Motor Racing 1902 -1952 By Bill Mason
It is very famous and was made back in the 60's
at this moment it is not for sale on DVD..
An that is a real pity!!
I have always wondered why Shell does not sell the film in there Gasstations for all the customers that buy there gas!!!
But maybe they may read this...? :rotfl:
Paul Hooft

#159 flat-16

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 13:35

Thanks Paul :up:

It does look a tad familiar... Was it shown on UK TV back in the eighties? I believe a comment on the Youtube site was to that effect.

Is / was there a VHS tape available?

Justin

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#160 RTH

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 16:10

I do remember it going out on TV but I think it was a lot further back than the eighties more like the late 60s.

It was advertised by Duke Video IOM for many years on VHS , you might need to give them a ring now , It is quite excellent.

#161 stevewf1

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 16:56

Originally posted by Mal9444
Came across this while browsing YouTube


The only label on it is Le Mans crash - incredible flip. Does anyone know what it is, other than a car clearly taking off and somersaulting because of air pressure under the front end, presumably on the Mulsanne straight? Reminds me of the footage of Donald Campbell's fatal flip in Bluebird. But how caused in a car?

May have been discussed before - but a quick preliminary search of this BB did not reveal anything - perhaps because I used the wrong keywords.


I believe that accident happened on the run from Mulsanne corner to Indianapolis, not the Mulsanne straight...

#162 flat-16

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 19:59

Thanks Richard :up:

Edit: I think this DVD is the same film as the VHS sets offered by Duke.

Unless I'm told otherwise, a copy will be ordered :up:


Justin

#163 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 17:07

StevewF1:

I think that is Mark Webber in a Mercedes.

When enough air gets under a car at those high speeds it turns thw whole car into a wing...fortunately in this case a very strong wing!

#164 h4887

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 19:46

Wasn't it Peter Dumbreck?

#165 stevewf1

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 20:02

Originally posted by David M. Kane
StevewF1:

I think that is Mark Webber in a Mercedes.

When enough air gets under a car at those high speeds it turns thw whole car into a wing...fortunately in this case a very strong wing!


Here are some pics of Webber's flip at what looks like the end of the Mulsanne straight.

http://www.mulsannes...m/benzCLR1.html

I'm pretty sure the video is of Dumbreck's crash which was on the run down to Indianapolis. If I recall, that flip was the one everybody saw on the TV news later that day.

:)

#166 David M. Kane

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 20:34

Steve:

I believe you're right, after the 2nd flip they finally admitted, "Stuggart, we have a problem"; and they withdrew from the race. Please correct me if I have any of this wrong. All I know is that you would have to drag me screaming and kicking into that car until you gave me a very percise explanation of the engineering "fixes" undertaken.

#167 f1steveuk

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 21:42

Didn't Dumbreck leave the circuit and out over the Armco, and Webber landed back on track??

#168 Gary C

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 22:15

Yes, Steve, that's the way I remember it. I still don't know how both guys walked away from those accidents......

#169 f1steveuk

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 22:26

I'd guess with brown trousers :eek:

#170 stevewf1

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 22:59

From what I remember, Dumbreck's car landed on its wheels and in a bit of a "clearing" in the woods there - it looked potentially a lot worse when viewed from the TV camera's telephoto lens, looking down the track.

He was very lucky... :eek:

#171 LittleChris

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:01

I believe Dumbreck ended up in pretty much the area that Jo Bonnier did (with more serious results in 1972) having gone off at the last right hand kink before Indianapolis corner.

Having passed by a couple of times since, I notice this whole area is now a massive run off zone.

#172 David M. Kane

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:40

LittleChris:

Shows just how the safety of the cars has come. Still very terrifying stuff...

#173 Stephen W

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 09:25

Originally posted by f1steveuk
I'd guess with brown trousers :eek:


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#174 doc knutsen

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:41

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Steve:

I believe you're right, after the 2nd flip they finally admitted, "Stuggart, we have a problem"; and they withdrew from the race. Please correct me if I have any of this wrong. All I know is that you would have to drag me screaming and kicking into that car until you gave me a very percise explanation of the engineering "fixes" undertaken.


I seem to remember that the third car (Webber's) flipped during practice, and then got rebuilt, only to do it again during race morning warm-up. This car was then withdrawn, on Radio Le Mans Mr Haug explained that they thought they had missed something during the rebuild after the first shunt, and that there might be an undetected problem with that car, so it was withdrawn while the other two would start. As a precaution, they added "dive plates" to the noses of the two cars that took the start.
However, after a few hours of racing, Dumbreck's car also flew. We were preparing dinner at the campsite at the time, and following the radio transmission. There was a sudden outburst from one of the RLM commentators, then the radio went quiet for a long time. The relief that came with the announcement that Dumbreck was ok, was palpable!
Matt and I had watched the behaviour of the Mercedes during practice, in particular the way the whole front end would oscillate when a front wheel hit a kerb. It really looked most uncomfortable, and was especially noticeable with Schneider driving the thing. The cars had what looked like parallell upper and lower front wishbones, and were obviously very stiffly sprung. They also had a huge front bodywork overhang. Racecar Engineering magazine ran an article on the Mercedes som time later, which calculated that a difference in angle of attack of the nose splitter of only about three degrees would convert considerable downforce into lift...seems they reached that level with the car going light over the hump, while sitting in another car's turbulent wake. The were very, very lucky to get away with it.

M-B came out with a press release stating the they would not come back to Le Mans in future, because it is not possible to go testing at the track. And later still, Bernd Schneider said those cars were not Mercedes' at all - they were AMGs...

#175 RTH

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 17:41

That crest has now been taken away , quite a major piece of earth removal and road rebuilding and the technical regulations altered to reduce the amount of permissible coachwork overhangs forward of the front axle.

#176 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 18:28

Didn't the same thing happen to Yannick Dalmas?

#177 Bernard

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 19:47

Looking for Graham Hill stuff and this came up as Rouen is apparently no more if I read other threads correctly



#178 kevthedrummer

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 00:59

Indy 500 highlights 1939 and 1941.

WARNING: contains footage of a fatal accident.

http://www.youtube.c...=5fTAOvgA0oo

#179 kevthedrummer

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:49

Home video of 1961 Indy 500, including Ray Harroun demonstrating Marmon Wasp:



Home video of 1960 Nashville 400:



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#180 RTH

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 13:33

Take your standard road car for a spin around the Nurburgring......good idea ?

http://bridgetogantr...ent/view/63/45/

press play button bottom left of screen

#181 David M. Kane

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 14:11

And I thought only American drivers were this stupid! I liked the bucking motorcyclist and the guy who got thrown from his VW.

#182 flat-16

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 14:25

Originally posted by RTH
good idea ?


No...

You make me feel guilty for laughing...and cringing with equal measure! And I've only gotten through the first minute so far...

This should be compulsory viewing for any boy-racers that fancy their chances at the mighty Nordschleife!


Justin

#183 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 15:44

Good post Richard!

I share the sentiments expressed so far - can't help laughing, but hate to think of the damage to car, ego and body.

At least it's unlikely that they'll have the embarrassment of filling in an insurance claim form!

Rob :wave:

#184 sterling49

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 19:33

Originally posted by David M. Kane
And I thought only American drivers were this stupid! I liked the bucking motorcyclist and the guy who got thrown from his VW.


Great seats that car had....and a complete absence of belts and driver skill :lol:

#185 P4Replica

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 21:47


Do hope this isn't a re-post. A modern (p*ss)take on C'├ętait un rendezvous:

http://www.youtube.c...K1koH2ub8&eurl= :lol: :rotfl:

#186 Twin Window

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 22:58

Originally posted by RTH

Take your standard road car for a spin around the Nurburgring......good idea ?

http://bridgetogantr...ent/view/63/45/

A demonstration of mass talent-failure if ever there was one... :lol:

#187 kevthedrummer

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 22:19

Jim Clark at Keimola, 1965. The first half is in Finnish but the second half is narrated by Clark taking a Chevy for a spin around the track.



#188 kevthedrummer

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 22:25

Originally posted by RTH
Take your standard road car for a spin around the Nurburgring......good idea ?

http://bridgetogantr...ent/view/63/45/

press play button bottom left of screen


Excellent :lol:

The motorcyclist at 1:00 did extremely well to stay on but the highlight for me was the guy falling rather sheepishly out of his car at 1:54. :lol:

#189 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 22:18

Sometimes, racing cars seem terribly, terribly dull - and slow.

Look what can be achieved with the tax payer footing the bill...

http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

but if you thought that was pretty ritzy, try this with a tanker...



:eek:

DCN

#190 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 22:35

If I may indulge in a bit of "my dad can beat up yours"...

My father, while in the US Air Force, flew through the Grand Canyon in a contemporary fighter jet. So like an F4 or an F5. Probably the 5 while stationed at Luke AFB just outside of Phoenix.

#191 T54

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 23:04

Doug,
Excellent use of tax money... :)

#192 stevewf1

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 23:04

Originally posted by Doug Nye
but if you thought that was pretty ritzy, try this with a tanker...



:eek:

DCN


Or this with a 747...



#193 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 23:26

Originally posted by T54
Doug,
Excellent use of tax money... :)


Well spotted Philippe, it was a FRENCH Air Force KC135...

DCN

#194 2Bob

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 00:19

Tina Turner and Ayrton Senna, Adelaide 1993.



#195 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 02:40

Indy '82
http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

Rockingham (UK) '01


#196 Graham Clayton

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:07

10 minutes of silent colour 8mm film footage from Mt Panorama, Bathurst in 1960:





#197 David McKinney

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 12:07

Also some 1958 and 1959 Bathurst stuff in those clips, I reckon

#198 Stefan Schmidt

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 15:23

Monaco 1980 - Carlos Reutemann 1980 - Interview

#199 Stefan Schmidt

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 16:48

Piquet & Prost

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#200 Stefan Schmidt

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 17:22

70ies Nurburgring - Adenauer Forst

http://video.google....695539059738855