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Can anyone ID this early '50s 500cc crash picture?


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#1 Paul Taylor

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 22:54

Found it on a website. It says it's Peter Collins at Brands in 1951, although it's clearly NOT Brands Hatch.

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It might not even be Peter Collins in 1951. Any ideas?

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#2 Paul Taylor

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 23:01

Could it be at Boreham? And a JBS?

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 05:15

Looks more like a Cooper to me
Collins started 1951 with a Cooper, but crashed it at the International Trophy meeting at Silverstone in May. He was No.10 on that occasion, so that might be the accident shown
After that he campaigned a JBS

#4 Paul Parker

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 09:37

What strikes me about this pic is, where is the driver?

Presumably he is on the other side of the car but seeing this reminds me that you were lucky to survive even relatively low speed shunts in those days. The car has knocked over one of the 45 gallon oil drums, imagine if you were to hit that with any part of your anatomy.

#5 Allan Lupton

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 11:51

There is a photo of Peter Collins' 1951 Silverstone crash on p27 of "Mon Ami Mate" and there is also his father's account of it. The gearbox locked up on entry to Woodcote corner, and I'm pretty sure it is the same crash although Woodcote hasn't looked like that for a long while.
What you perhaps don't realise is that the car is travelling from left to right.

#6 HiRich

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 12:02

This photo has intrigued me before. My notes have it as "A picture from The Motor, described as "Peter Collins crashing his Cooper 500 at Brands Hatch, 1951""

David is closest to the money. It is definitely an early-model Cooper. What is a bit odd is that his (1950) Mk IV was racing green, with a BRDC badge beside the cockpit. His (1949) Mk III was bare aluminium with dark wheels. He did not buy a 1951 Mk V, which looks different anyway. So, presuming it was his own car, this must be his Mk III, and there is evidence that he retained the car for some time after buying the Mk IV. I can also see a BRDC logo, so that pretty much confirms it is Collins, and it is his Mk III - the logo also suggests a later date.
However, this does raise the possibility that it was running with a larger engine, which he may have retained the Mk III for. I can see only one exhaust, but there might be a second cylinder in there (bit it is too blurred).

On location - way beyond me, but I agree it can't be Brands. It could be any of the airfield circuits to me.

On time - well he had the JBS by late May 1951 and does not appear to have used a Cooper in Formula III thereafter. He bought the car mid-1949. I'm not sure when he actually sold the Coopers - Woody of the Cooper Car Club may know better.
David, I presume the international Trophy is the race I have on 5th May?

So:
- Who: Definitely Peter Collins
- What: Definitely his Cooper Mk III, though possibly in 1100cc guise?
- Where: perhaps Silverstone full circuit?
- When: Sometime between mid 1949 and May 1951. Silverstone International Trophy, 5th May 1951 looks promising.

#7 Allan Lupton

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 14:05

Originally posted by HiRich

What is a bit odd is that his (1950) Mk IV was racing green, with a BRDC badge beside the cockpit. His (1949) Mk III was bare aluminium with dark wheels. He did not buy a 1951 Mk V, which looks different anyway. So, presuming it was his own car, this must be his Mk III, and there is evidence that he retained the car for some time after buying the Mk IV. I can also see a BRDC logo, so that pretty much confirms it is Collins, and it is his Mk III - the logo also suggests a later date.
However, this does raise the possibility that it was running with a larger engine, which he may have retained the Mk III for. I can see only one exhaust, but there might be a second cylinder in there (bit it is too blurred).


Again, as reported by Chris Nixon in "Mon Ami Mate", the Mk IV Cooper was fitted with their developed 1260 cc JAP-based motor, the Mk. III remaining a 500. If you know what you're looking at, it had Dunlop mag. wheels for the 1951 season, the Cooper items having cracked.

#8 Paul Taylor

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 17:46

Thanks for solving it. :) At first, I thought it was Don Parker who also hit some of those metal bins and straw bales at Silverstone and (I think!) overturned, although that was later in the year.

From Motorsport, June 1951:

Peter Collins, no doubt deeming more speed desirable, overdid it at Woodcote and rolled his Cooper over twice, but arose from his stretcher to drive a Dyna-Panhard very convincingly in the next race!



#9 Ted Walker

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 07:59

Having owned the ex Peter Collins Cooper MkIV Its not that. Looks to be a later model.

#10 Dutchy

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:10

Definitely NOT later than a Mk IV.

#11 David McKinney

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:38

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Having owned the ex Peter Collins Cooper MkIV Its not that. Looks to be a later model.

I agree it's no later than a Mk IV
You must have been very young when you owned that car, Ted - it went to New Zealand in 1953 :lol:

#12 Ted Walker

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 19:40

Not my car David. I had the LONG CHASSIS MK IV that he ran on the hills with a 750cc V Twin JAP.I bought from a guy called Bruce White down in Dorset area.