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#51 smarjoram

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 17:58

It's fascinating reading posts from bohemians like messieurs Matthews and Marjoram, discussing their techniques and idiosyncrasies. More, please.

There's nothing Bohemian about me - and if I wasn't on my way out to see some women dance about in leotards at a bongo and beat poetry night I'd come round and teach you a lesson daddio. Now where did I put my turtleneck?

That's some impressive drawing there Jones - I like the working drawing where you can see the different layers and working out best. I never learned this way of working - have you studied industrial design or something similar? The subject reminds me of the Supervan Transit and the later F1 Espace.

This morning I thought I'd try a longer technical piece. I wish I'd chosen something a bit more square - the complicated shape nearly drove me cross-eyed and I had to have a lie down. I can see why cutaway artists usually start with a photo. See if you can guess what it is...

Posted Image

Edited by smarjoram, 24 September 2009 - 18:41.


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#52 Jones Foyer

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 18:48

There's nothing Bohemian about me - and if I wasn't on my way out to see some women dance about in leotards at a bongo and beat poetry night I'd come round and teach you a lesson daddio. Now where did I put my turtleneck?

That's some impressive drawing there Jones - I like the working drawing where you can see the different layers and working out best. I never learned this way of working - have you studied industrial design or something similar? The subject reminds me of the Supervan Transit and the later F1 Espace.

This morning I thought I'd try a longer technical piece. I wish I'd chosen something a bit more square - the complicated shape nearly drove me cross-eyed and I had to have a lie down. I can see why cutaway artists usually start with a photo. See if you can guess what it is...

Posted Image


Yeah, I have a BS in industrial design! My process has evolved since using a computer where I construct an illustration out of a few separate drawings. It's hardly artistic!

Looks like a connecting rod hanging out of the hole in the front in your piece...not a car motor I would guess!


#53 smarjoram

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 19:14

Looks like a connecting rod hanging out of the hole in the front in your piece...not a car motor I would guess!

It is a car motor

#54 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 19:57

I can see why cutaway artists usually start with a photo.


Not always...if the actual car or engine exists then yes. But in industry, especially the car industry, there was never usually the engine, gearbox or whatever it was you had to illustrate actually built. It was all concepts or at the blueprint stage and the illustration was required to illustrate how it would look, way before CAD of course. Therefore the overall view and layout had to be decided from looking at the GA drawing. All of the measurements were taken from the blueprints, trying to visualise how it would look when pieced together, which is the primary skill of the technical illustrator.


#55 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 22:20

It is a car motor

Citroen 2CV? It is a small, lightweight car if that is it's engine! Starter dog at the front...

#56 Jones Foyer

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 22:26

Citroen 2CV? It is a small, lightweight car if that is it's engine! Starter dog at the front...


A boxer 2cyl motor?

#57 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 22:27

Not always...if the actual car or engine exists then yes. But in industry, especially the car industry, there was never usually the engine, gearbox or whatever it was you had to illustrate actually built. It was all concepts or at the blueprint stage and the illustration was required to illustrate how it would look, way before CAD of course. Therefore the overall view and layout had to be decided from looking at the GA drawing. All of the measurements were taken from the blueprints, trying to visualise how it would look when pieced together, which is the primary skill of the technical illustrator.

Quite right, Andrew, being able to produce a perpective illustration of a mechanism from engineering drawings is fundamental to technical illustration - my cutaway of the Ilmor 265A engine was done without seeing a fully assembled engine, or not until I had nearly finished the illustration. I had photographs of bits, but most importantly, I had loads of drawings. Lovely things they are, too! You have to be able to read them and interprete them.

#58 macoran

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 22:42

Citroen 2CV? It is a small, lightweight car if that is it's engine! Starter dog at the front...


Je suis Citrophile! Non, pas le 2CV

#59 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 22:50

Panhard?

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#60 smarjoram

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 09:16

Not always...if the actual car or engine exists then yes. But in industry, especially the car industry, there was never usually the engine, gearbox or whatever it was you had to illustrate actually built. It was all concepts or at the blueprint stage and the illustration was required to illustrate how it would look, way before CAD of course. Therefore the overall view and layout had to be decided from looking at the GA drawing. All of the measurements were taken from the blueprints, trying to visualise how it would look when pieced together, which is the primary skill of the technical illustrator.

You're quite right - I didn't mean to belittle the skill of the cutaway artist in any way. I just had Tony's recent posts about his working methods in my mind when I wrote my glib comment. Though it would have been nice to have had a blueprint on a perspective plane in the background to reassure me that everything was in proportion and in the right place.

On to the motor. It is a 2 cylinder air cooled engine - 1100cc. But you need to look further east than France.

#61 alansart

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 13:08

Not always...if the actual car or engine exists then yes. But in industry, especially the car industry, there was never usually the engine, gearbox or whatever it was you had to illustrate actually built. It was all concepts or at the blueprint stage and the illustration was required to illustrate how it would look, way before CAD of course. Therefore the overall view and layout had to be decided from looking at the GA drawing. All of the measurements were taken from the blueprints, trying to visualise how it would look when pieced together, which is the primary skill of the technical illustrator.


Andrew and myself were both in the German Car Industry doing the same type of work at roughly the same time, so I totally agree with his comments.

There are times when the product is in the engineers head or on a back of a fag packet. It's up to the Illustrator to translate what is required with little or no information, picking bits from other products and often just guessing, modifying the artwork when the client can get an impression of what you are doing. This cutaway of a tank was a proposal for the US Army. It only had a baseline blueprint for a layout and my drawing was put together using bits and pieces used on some of the companies other products. A lot of time was spent with the engineers seeing if this would fit and want needed changing. I'm glad I wasn't paying the bill!

Posted Image


smarjoram's drawings are just great. It takes me back to my college days we were sometimes sent out and told to just draw something! At one time a couple of went over to the Shuttleworth Collection in the middle of December. It was COLD! I started sketching an unrestored Hurricane which was looking a bit tatty. I couldn't be bothered getting up to change the paint water so used cold coffee instead. The result was quite pleasing and it smelt quite good as well :)

Edited by alansart, 25 September 2009 - 13:08.


#62 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 13:56

smarjoram's drawings are just great. It takes me back to my college days we were sometimes sent out and told to just draw something! At one time a couple of went over to the Shuttleworth Collection in the middle of December. It was COLD! I started sketching an unrestored Hurricane which was looking a bit tatty. I couldn't be bothered getting up to change the paint water so used cold coffee instead. The result was quite pleasing and it smelt quite good as well :)


Nice one Alan! But like me, I bet you've often been painting away and by mistake gone to wash your paintbrush out in your coffee or tea rather than the water jar - or worse if using oils!


#63 smarjoram

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 14:46

I did think it might be fun to use old engine oil to do a painting - but a few weeks later I read that someone had done one of Lewis Hamilton...

Jalopnik article

I think it would have suited a looser and grungier subject. I bet the oil that comes out of an F1 car looks as clean as when it goes in.

#64 smarjoram

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 16:00

The motor is from 1922 Tatra T11 racecar. It had the most peculiar casting The finned cylinder heads are enclosed within it and are cooled by a huge fan attached to the flywheel - the air being forced through the various tubes in the casing. The hole at the top is for access so that the engine can be assembled.

You can see the sort of car it comes from here...

http://www.tatraworl...fotogallery.htm

and wikipedia has a nice picture of a complete engine and chassis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_11

#65 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 16:27

I bet the oil that comes out of an F1 car looks as clean as when it goes in.

I must have seen old F1 engine oil, but I'm blowed if I can remember its colour - but it doesn't look new! I have seen old Indy oil, as Mario Ilien was given a special award after the PC23 Mercedes 500I won the Indy 500. It is a large block of acrylic with a small teardrop deep inside, about 15mm high, nearly full of oil taken from the winning engine. It's dark brown!

#66 alansart

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 17:49

I did think it might be fun to use old engine oil to do a painting


I'm just about to change the oil in my wife's old Fiesta. Should be perfect for some night pictures of Singapore - although it might need some thinning :lol:

#67 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 17:55

I'm just about to change the oil in my wife's old Fiesta. Should be perfect for some night pictures of Singapore - although it might need some thinning :lol:

Time to try some impasto, surely Alan!

#68 alansart

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 17:59

Time to try some impasto, surely Alan!


Tried it once and spent the next hour trying to pull the brush off the canvas :)

(honesty edit: I had to look on Google what impasto meant...............)

Edited by alansart, 25 September 2009 - 18:00.


#69 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 18:03

Tried it once and spent the next hour trying to pull the brush off the canvas :)

(honesty edit: I had to look on Google what impasto meant...............)

If you'd left the brush there it would have been praised as Art!

#70 alansart

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 18:29

If you'd left the brush there it would have been praised as Art!


I still bristle about that...

#71 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 21:00

Don't be such a ferrule...

#72 burt estep

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 02:34

very funnie brush "jokes". can't fathom that no one has not left a comment on my paintings / posts #31, 32/ on page #1 of this topic. above the red "x" on the page just click on "PHOTOS" OR "SLIDE SHOW". THANKS BURT. keep up the good work andrew.k.

#73 Tony Matthews

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 06:25

can't fathom that no one has not left a comment on my paintings / posts #31, 32/ on page #1 of this topic. above the red "x" on the page just click on "PHOTOS" OR "SLIDE SHOW". THANKS BURT. keep up the good work andrew.k.

Took a while to find a way into the site, Burt. Very nice - is it all airbrush, or mixed air- and bristle? I particularly like #7, even though it doesn't show a car!

Edited to say - don't worry if no-one comments for a while, it could mean that everyone who sees your work is awestruck!

Edited by Tony Matthews, 26 September 2009 - 06:27.


#74 Tony Matthews

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 08:47

Posted Image

Once again, a litho print from line artwork softened by pixels - I did this little drawing many years ago, 45 years I think, when I was heavily into stippling.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 26 September 2009 - 08:49.


#75 smarjoram

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 15:26

very funnie brush "jokes". can't fathom that no one has not left a comment on my paintings / posts #31, 32/ on page #1 of this topic. above the red "x" on the page just click on "PHOTOS" OR "SLIDE SHOW". THANKS BURT. keep up the good work andrew.k.

Sorry Burt - I too didn't spot where they were - it looked like a failed link. My favourite is the one of Villeneuve in the Williams - to me it's a bit more abstract and has more action and energy than the very clean airbrush ones.

Nice stippling Tony - it's a technique that's rather fallen out of fashion lately.

#76 Tony Matthews

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 17:12

Nice stippling Tony - it's a technique that's rather fallen out of fashion lately.

What? More so than impasto? I'm mortified!

#77 burt estep

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 18:31

Took a while to find a way into the site, Burt. Very nice - is it all airbrush, or mixed air- and bristle? I particularly like #7, even though it doesn't show a car!

Edited to say - don't worry if no-one comments for a while, it could mean that everyone who sees your work is awestruck!

tony thanks #7 is hekki -that painting is going to england to a girl who is on another f1 board as a gift/'cause she's cool.post good things. i love your tech/in your stuff. the paintings are both airbrushed and hand painted. nos strathmore red sable lettering brushes.the hekki,lauda,gilles rain,are on canvas the other paintings are on plexiglass.

#78 burt estep

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 18:57

Sorry Burt - I too didn't spot where they were - it looked like a failed link. My favourite is the one of Villeneuve in the Williams - to me it's a bit more abstract and has more action and energy than the very clean airbrush ones.

Nice stippling Tony - it's a technique that's rather fallen out of fashion lately.

s-man thanks for your kind words.great on ya' too. some really good art-guys on this board. the jaques willy' painting is owned by bertran gachot.

#79 scorerr770

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 16:05

A new member for here and also a new profile at http://www.automotiv...site/roy-scorer.

Something different, digital artist now, used to be traditional motorsport artist in the late 80's. Now finding time to do more work as a hobby and back into short circuit racing.

These may not be F1, Touring cars, or le-mans Sports cars, but the national Hotrods cost £40k and the V8 Stockcar can be £15k+

Anyways. Hi to you all.

Roy

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#80 alansart

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 16:29

A new member for here and also a new profile at http://www.automotiv...site/roy-scorer.

Something different, digital artist now, used to be traditional motorsport artist in the late 80's. Now finding time to do more work as a hobby and back into short circuit racing.

These may not be F1, Touring cars, or le-mans Sports cars, but the national Hotrods cost £40k and the V8 Stockcar can be £15k+

Anyways. Hi to you all.

Roy


Welcome Roy.

It' a pity that site doesn't show bigger images of your artwork.

In the late 70's, early 80's, I worked with several illustrators who came from Portsmouth College. They were all very good, although they probably left 10 or so years before you.

#81 scorerr770

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 18:37

Welcome Roy.

It' a pity that site doesn't show bigger images of your artwork.

In the late 70's, early 80's, I worked with several illustrators who came from Portsmouth College. They were all very good, although they probably left 10 or so years before you.


I have worked with a few from a few years before me and now work again with one guy who was there 10 years before. small world.

Have to find a way / website to place illustrations on. so far just facebook. will try and post some soon.

http://scorerr770.de...oured-144555043

http://scorerr770.de...t-Rod-144553929

http://scorerr770.de...k-Car-144553720

http://scorerr770.de...-No99-144553374

Edited by scorerr770, 24 November 2009 - 20:17.


#82 smarjoram

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:55

Hi Roy, those are great - you might want to post one on the cutaway artists thread - it on it's way to being the longest thread in interweb history. I haven't done a lot of car drawing lately, just a couple of quickies. The first an Ami in the rain...

Posted Image

and second a GT40 kit that a friend of mine is building...

Posted Image

#83 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:33

Nice to see you're stll at it smarj, I like those, especially the Ami!

#84 scorerr770

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:40

Hi Roy, those are great - you might want to post one on the cutaway artists thread - it on it's way to being the longest thread in interweb history. I haven't done a lot of car drawing lately, just a couple of quickies. The first an Ami in the rain...

Posted Image

and second a GT40 kit that a friend of mine is building...

Posted Image



cheers and will do. although been told in the introduce yourself that links not working. hmmm.. lol

#85 scorerr770

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 20:17

I have worked with a few from a few years before me and now work again with one guy who was there 10 years before. small world.

Have to find a way / website to place illustrations on. so far just facebook. will try and post some soon.

http://scorerr770.de...oured-144555043

http://scorerr770.de...t-Rod-144553929

http://scorerr770.de...k-Car-144553720

http://scorerr770.de...-No99-144553374


updated the links

#86 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 00:45

updated the links

That's better! Have you checked out Tom West's artwork on the cutaway thread?

#87 scorerr770

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 11:59

That's better! Have you checked out Tom West's artwork on the cutaway thread?


will check them out tonight as images blocked here at work for MOD...... :evil:


#88 alansart

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 13:45

Just found this. Drawn with a Rotring pen 33 years ago whilst I was recovering from Glandular Fever. I did quite a few in my enforced rest, but this is the only one I can find.

Posted Image




#89 Jones Foyer

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 19:21

I "constructed" this series back in 2002 or so and did a few prints. Jerry Seinfeld bought one.

http://www.hyrend.co...rieswebsite.jpgPosted Image

#90 Jones Foyer

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 19:24

Gouache painting I did during college.

Posted Image

#91 alansart

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 19:38

Gouache painting I did during college.

Posted Image


Like it :up:


#92 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 08:53

Some good stuff on here guys, I like the pen & ink Rotring ones Alan, I did loads of those myself 25-30 years ago!
A montage 40 x 30ins, that I did a while back for Win Percy. Acrylics.
Posted Image

#93 sterling49

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 08:58

Great photo Andy.....as usual! My personal favourites are "Big Sam" and the Bastos Rovers and the TWR Jag, great memories of them at Silverstone.

edited to say.........love the P4 in the background too mate!!!

Edited by sterling49, 12 December 2009 - 08:59.


#94 smarjoram

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 17:12

Great stippling Alan - it's not a technique you see any more these days is it? Jones, I really like the 917 series too. It's a great idea and really nicely executed. It works really well. I just had a look at your industrial design site and enjoyed reading about the various images - there's some great concepts there - but I was disappointed to find out that the Messerschmidt Hot Rod didn't exist :)

Nice to see Mr Kitson adding some of his impressive art too.

I managed to get a bit more done on my Brasier digital painting - I added some detail to the people and fixed the wheels - the ellipses weren't great first time round...

Posted Image

Edited by smarjoram, 12 December 2009 - 17:43.


#95 smarjoram

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 18:03

I'm going to start a series of quick, sketchy paintings of my favourite cars. Here's the first - Fiat Mefistofele...

Posted Image

#96 Ivan

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 19:16

I don't know how I missed this thread...you lot are fantastic!
:up:

#97 eef

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 19:40

Here's a selection of some of my drawings...

Aston Martin DB4 GT Lightweight
Posted Image

Jaguar XK140 Coupe
Posted Image

Farrari 250 GTO California Spyder
Posted Image

Bugatti Type-51
Posted Image

Ford GT40
Posted Image

I wont bore you any longer! Ethan



#98 smarjoram

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 11:52


Cor that's some very precise work there Ethan - very nice. Is it pencil? Some of the hatching makes it look a bit like pen.

#99 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 13:31

Cor that's some very precise work there Ethan - very nice. Is it pencil? Some of the hatching makes it look a bit like pen.

Untill Smarj wrote that I assumed that they are all pencil - now I wonder if they are mixed-media. Anyway, very nice - I particularly like the wheels and tyres. The Bugatti wheels are not a great challenge - that sounds a bit cheeky, it's not meant to - but the Halibrands and particularly the spokes are great. If you do perfect bodywork and screw up the wheels, it all looks wrong. Get the wheels right, you're half way there!

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#100 eef

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 18:23

Smarj - they are all initially drawn in pencil, I then crosshatch in black ink using varying nibs; mainly 0.05mm fibre tipped pens.

Tony - thanks, you hit the nail on the head; the wheels as with an actual car make it. If you get it wrong, don't bother going any further! I always start with the wheels on both the initial drawing stage and on the ink stage of the drawing. When I know that the wheels look spot on it inspires me even more and gives me that boost to make that drawing the best (doesn't always work out, but it does more often than not!).

Cheers guys, Ethan