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Ferrari 312PB sports prototype


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#1 Hugewally

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 22:41

Ok, I've looked around the 'net and what books I have and I can't come up with the answer I'm looking for so I'm hoping someone here might know a bit more...

I see references to the 312P & PB being based on an F1 chassis or nothing more than an F1 car with a full body on it. But thats as far as i can go with those statements.

So just how 'based on' or nothing more than an F1 car were they really? Looking at them with the body work removed, I don't see any resemblance to an F1 car...

Anyone have a better design/build history of the cars?

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#2 klemcoll

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 02:41

Both the 1969 312P (V12) and the later 1971 312P with flat (boxer) 12 cylinder, sometimes called a 312PB to differentiate it, were designed off the contemporary F1 cars. That is in that the motors were basically similar to the then contemporary F1 motors and the suspensions used the F1 geometry to at least some extent. Of course the chassis were very different indeed, being for sports car use. The 1969 312P used a motor with the FI in the V and the exhausts below the heads whereas the contemporary F1 motor had the FI between the cams and the exhaust in the V. This F1/sports car thing was not all that unusual at Ferrari. For instance the 250TRI/61 sports cars used suspension very similar to the F1 cars of 1960 and were by no means similar to the TRs of prior years.

#3 RA Historian

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 03:01

Originally posted by Hugewally
Ok, I've looked around the 'net and what books I have and I can't come up with the answer I'm looking for so I'm hoping someone here might know a bit more...

Anyone have a better design/build history of the cars?


The December issue of Forza magazine, just out, has an article on the 312PB which you might like.

#4 Hugewally

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:27

Thank you. I also just heard that from a close friend in Atlanta...

Guess i have to go to the book store tomorrow.

Timing is everything.

;)

#5 Hugewally

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:30

Originally posted by klemcoll
Both the 1969 312P (V12) and the later 1971 312P with flat (boxer) 12 cylinder, sometimes called a 312PB to differentiate it, were designed off the contemporary F1 cars. That is in that the motors were basically similar to the then contemporary F1 motors and the suspensions used the F1 geometry to at least some extent. Of course the chassis were very different indeed, being for sports car use. The 1969 312P used a motor with the FI in the V and the exhausts below the heads whereas the contemporary F1 motor had the FI between the cams and the exhaust in the V. This F1/sports car thing was not all that unusual at Ferrari. For instance the 250TRI/61 sports cars used suspension very similar to the F1 cars of 1960 and were by no means similar to the TRs of prior years.

Thanks. Understand about the motors. It was just the terrible wording about the chassis and F1 that kept coming up everywhere I looked. Like everyone was lazy and kept using the same source for their writings... Why research when you can copy? :mad: ;)

#6 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 08:40

The best book on this subject would be:

Boxer: Ferrari Flat Twelve Road and Racing Cars, 1963-81
By the late Jonathan Thompson
ISBN: 0850454093

#7 Roger Clark

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 18:55

Originally posted by klemcoll
Both the 1969 312P (V12) and the later 1971 312P with flat (boxer) 12 cylinder, sometimes called a 312PB to differentiate it, were designed off the contemporary F1 cars. That is in that the motors were basically similar to the then contemporary F1 motors and the suspensions used the F1 geometry to at least some extent. Of course the chassis were very different indeed, being for sports car use. The 1969 312P used a motor with the FI in the V and the exhausts below the heads whereas the contemporary F1 motor had the FI between the cams and the exhaust in the V. This F1/sports car thing was not all that unusual at Ferrari. For instance the 250TRI/61 sports cars used suspension very similar to the F1 cars of 1960 and were by no means similar to the TRs of prior years.

The 1969 Grand Prix Ferrari had the injection ports in the V. not between the cams.

The 1971 sports-racer differed from the contemporary Grand Prix car in several respects. For a start it had a space-frame chassis, albeit stiffened by welding sheet metal to it. The engine was restricted to 10,800 rpm, compared with 12,600 of the Grand Prix car. Whether this was due to heavier, and more durable moving parts, or merely a restriction placed on the drivers, I don't know. I think it extremely unlikely that a flat-12 engine in Grand Prix tune would last 1,000kms. The sports-car was also considerably heavier: 655-670 kilos, compared with (I think) 550.

Most of this comes from an article by Denis Jenkinson in Motor Sport September 1972, and Ferrari by Hans Tanner and Doug Nye, which I have to say, is remarkably similar.  ;)

#8 klemcoll

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 19:51

Well, Mr. Clark is at least partially correct. For most of 1969 Ferrari used a version of their 1968 F1 motor which was set up similarly to that in the 312P sports car. However, Ferrari did test an F1 motor in 1969 at Monza with exhausts out of the V and FI which was on the outside of the heads. A photo of this unit is in the Tanner book mentioned in Mr. Clark's post (Ferrari , 5th Ed., pg. 173) and here is a somewhat more detailed view. Both the image used in Tanner's book and this one are from the Coltrin archive which we own.


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