Jump to content


Photo

Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


  • Please log in to reply
9174 replies to this topic

#1 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:51

I open this thread because I have a great interest in those years and with Honda pulling out at the end of 1967 there was a big change in MC Racing.So IMO there is a logic in the years above
Also we had a great period with many fantastic MCs , riders and championships. I hope many of you think the same and wish for lots of pictures , indos etc. and perhaps some transporters or paddock pics as this area is my special, and there is even less in MCs than on Car Racing. Infos on books , articles , tips on MC sites , anything goes.

Advertisement

#2 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:53

Thank you Bjørn , here is my first info :

www.igottagilera.co.uk

#3 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 02 November 2006 - 16:43

Sorry Twinny , I dont know from where the years came. I asked for 1949-1968 ! Why else would I write soin my introduction!

#4 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,611 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 02 November 2006 - 16:55

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer

Sorry Twinny , I dont know from where the years came.

Brain-fade on my part... :rolleyes:

#5 T54

T54
  • Member

  • 2,479 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 03 November 2006 - 03:45

My favorite racing period for bikes... :)

#6 Martin Roessler

Martin Roessler
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 03 November 2006 - 08:58

Hi Bjørn'
here are some pics for you :wave:

Posted Image


Posted Image

Posted Image

cheers marty

#7 pppdrive

pppdrive
  • Member

  • 61 posts
  • Joined: July 06

Posted 03 November 2006 - 13:41

Hi All,

Can anyone help with identifying these riders for me. I have no information on dates/places but am hoping someone out there will be able to regognise them.
Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image

#8 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 03 November 2006 - 13:48

The middle one (almost) clearly says 'John Surtees'. :D

#9 pppdrive

pppdrive
  • Member

  • 61 posts
  • Joined: July 06

Posted 03 November 2006 - 14:51

Thanks Paul,

John Surtees I should have known as he was just at the end of "my era"

Paul

#10 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 03 November 2006 - 15:09

Hello, I am not too strong on this , thats why I like the period. Post 6.1 : Robb?
Post 6.2 : ? post 6.3 : Fath? post 7.17 Bob Mac?(helmet)

#11 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 03 November 2006 - 17:43

Post 6.1 is definitely Tommy Robb pushing an early 250cc Honda twin.

Post 6.2 is a damaged Manx Norton with a Peel 'Mountain Mile' fairing, the best looking of all 50s and 60s fairings.

Post 6.3 - Helmut Fath? I'm not so sure.

#12 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 03 November 2006 - 18:35

Can any tell me the name of Hailwoods private team (with his father Stan)?

#13 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 03 November 2006 - 19:27

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Can any tell me the name of Hailwoods private team (with his father Stan)?


was it*ecurie sportive?),they had the motto*for love of the sport*on the vans and bikes.

#14 Martin Roessler

Martin Roessler
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 04 November 2006 - 00:48

6.1Tommy Rob but i think it's a 350 Honda? was leading the race at hockenheim 26.5 1963 when he had to give up with technical problems
6.2 Sven Gunnarson's Norton who crashed 29.4 1962 at the Suedschleife Nuerburgring
6.3 is Heiner Butz standing...in the bachground sitting behind the trailer should be Ludwig Malchus

cheers marty

#15 chopper

chopper
  • Member

  • 34 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 04 November 2006 - 01:49

is it just me then that thinks the 4 cyl is a gillera?
i'll enjoy contributing to this post as my main intrest in nostalgic biking is between 1958 and 1967 .... when the dunboyne road racing was held . :)

#16 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 November 2006 - 11:12

They are Gileras except for Surtees on the right which is an MV.

Here are some ref. I found :
P3 Motorsport photos
classic-motorrad.de
eggersdorf.info

Anyone know where the complete World championship results of that time is to get?

#17 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Member

  • 14,435 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 November 2006 - 11:49

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Anyone know where the complete World championship results of that time is to get?

There are some useful sites mentioned in this thread

#18 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 04 November 2006 - 13:27

Originally posted by renzo


was it*ecurie sportive?),they had the motto*for love of the sport*on the vans and bikes.


well? was this ok for you? an answer would be nice.

#19 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 November 2006 - 13:56

:wave: Thanks to all so far , I believe we slowly will build up a good thread for that period. I have allready learned a lot.
To Renzo , thanks, I have a picture of the Hailwood van where I couldnt see /remember all the text
so thats nice . Further, I have seen you on the MCNostalgia and still follows that thread! This one is not meant to be a competing thread!

Advertisement

#20 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 04 November 2006 - 14:04

no problem at all,two threads are better than one,more to look at! :up:

#21 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 04 November 2006 - 14:41

One of my reasons for asking about results is that there doesnt seem to be any books which have them complete. In my younger years I wrote my own statistics ,but as some results were short of complete , and after reading some race reports for a season wich named some retirements or accidents a picture showed up to a whole season. So me dummy thought if he and he was at the BGP they must have been at the NLGP , so I put an "R" for retired if they were not mentioned. That I want to revise! See? I do have some books , so qs are welcome too. Oh yes and in those days also there was often NWC races and often with works entries. These I idiot later threw out! :eek:
So all in all there is a lot to work with, do I have to mention....I do it anyway :
Morini,Montesa,Bultaco,Guzzi,Mondial,Bianchi,MV,Gilera,EMC,BMW,Benelli,Matchless,AJS,Norton and all the private british tuners etc.

#22 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member

  • 240 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 04 November 2006 - 21:33

Nice topic Bjorn. One of my favourite machines of this era was was Chris Vincents BMW

http://www.p-3motors...12/display/1488


Wonder what happened to it

#23 philippe7

philippe7
  • Member

  • 2,777 posts
  • Joined: August 03

Posted 05 November 2006 - 08:16

The address for Vincent Glon's comprehensive website has changed lately and is not easy to find, it's now here for the main WC results page
http://racingmemo.fr...GP-CH MONDE.htm
a click on the year gets you to a detailed review of the season, with a list of entrants and a race-by-race report , a click on the name of the world champ leads to a results grid for the category

If you go back from there ( click on "sommaire moto" in the top left hand corner ) you access the main menu with various other results pages ( pre-1949 races, european championships, F750, etc.....)

It's all in french of course, but the names , bikes, results etc.... are fairly universally understandable I think ;) .....

#24 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 05 November 2006 - 13:52

[IMG]http://img334.images...scan0005ra7.jpg[/IMG]



[IMG]http://img175.images...scan0004wy9.png[/IMG]


ok,hope you like these i fished out of my old photos.
i think i took them around 1968/69 at brands hatch,i think it may have been the *hutchinson 100* meeting.
the first show murray walker chatting to mike hailwood with bill ivy looking at his bike.
the other one is bill trying the NORTON forks he was experimenting with on the 4?cylinder yamaha.
he wasn't very popular with yamaha over that if i rememebr right.

#25 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member

  • 240 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 05 November 2006 - 14:58

Phillipe many thanks for the link

Paul Rochdale , theres the info about Roland Foll we have talked about, my memory was not playing tricks

http://racingmemo.fr...OTO-GP-1964.htm

#26 Bjorn Kjer

Bjorn Kjer
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 05 November 2006 - 17:13

:wave: Hey guys , thanks for all the tips and pictures. Seeing Hailwood and Ivy made me think when I was at the Ulster TT in 67.....that sound ... especially the Honda 6 "magaphones"!!!!!!!
Just think about those years 50s 1-2-3 cyl. , 125s 1-2-3-4-5 cyl. , 250 1-2-3-4-6 cyl. ,350s 1-2-3-4-6
cyl. 500s 1-2-3-4-V8 cyl. plus the 2 strokes 1-2-4 cyl. and the sidecars too.

#27 VDP

VDP
  • Member

  • 659 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 05 November 2006 - 17:58

For results

http://park5.wakwak....umei/1949P.html

#28 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 05 November 2006 - 19:28

Bernard

I'm sure you realise that the passenger in the Chris Vincent pic is none other than John 'Mooneyes' Cooper. As for Roland Foll, I can't recall what we discovered about him. Did you say at the time he was killed in a racing accident?

Paul

#29 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member

  • 240 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 06 November 2006 - 10:05

Yes if you scroll down in the Phillipe link I posted to the 1964 Dutch tt you will see a small piece about Roland losing his life on a 125 Honda in practice on the Friday. I arrived at Assen that afternoon and the place was so quiet and a Dutch journalist told me what had happened. I was a fan of Rolands and his death was one of the moments I remember of that era

http://www.p-3motors...12/display/1231

#30 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 06 November 2006 - 10:54

ok,this is the oldest one i have,it's brands hatch around 1967?.
i can spot phil read,bill ivy,griff jenkins,derek minter,john blanchard etc.

Posted Image

#31 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 06 November 2006 - 11:33

Crikey, 'my era' at last. Perhaps I have a fighting chance?

6 - Rex Butcher
9 - Bill Ivy
11 - Derek Minter
1 - John Cooper(?)
7(behind Minter) - Rod Gould

I should know 3 but my brain is a bit fuzzy.

#32 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 06 November 2006 - 12:59

ron chandler?and 25 may be john blanchard or vice versa.number 6 is read i think.19 may be brian ball.hmmm you may be right about butcher.

#33 Jonas

Jonas
  • Member

  • 221 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 06 November 2006 - 16:45

Originally posted by Martin Roessler
6.2 Sven Gunnarson's Norton who crashed 29.4 1962 at the Suedschleife Nuerburgring

Are you sure about this? I have him as number 24 in this race. If it's the right bike, my father has it today. It's likely that you're right, though. The bike must have been damaged in the way the photo shows; the frame still carries re-inforcements around the steering/fork joint.

Originally posted by Martin Roessler
6.3 is Heiner Butz standing...in the bachground sitting behind the trailer should be Ludwig Malchus

Yep, and the bike is an NSU Sportmax

#34 Rob Semmeling

Rob Semmeling
  • Member

  • 839 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 06 November 2006 - 18:56

Originally posted by Jonas
Are you sure about this? I have him as number 24 in this race. If it's the right bike, my father has it today. It's likely that you're right, though. The bike must have been damaged in the way the photo shows; the frame still carries re-inforcements around the steering/fork joint.


Gunnarsson carried number 26 in the 500cc race. Number 24 was Holger Ekström (Matchless).


Martin, was your father present at this race? Did he take any more photographs?

#35 Martin Roessler

Martin Roessler
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:14

Jonas
the info about the bike came from my father....thats what he wrote next to the picture in his photoalbum:

Norton 500 ccm
Fahrer:
Sven O.Gunnarson
Schweden (verletzt)

Do you have a picture of the bike as it is today? Great how things come together in this forum :clap:

Rob
yes my father was present at the race but unfortunately didn't take many pictures....not sure if i sent you the ones of the crashed Lola Formula Junior of H.A. Stausberg and the TCA Junior ?
I have another pic of Heiner Butz drinking coffee if that is of any interest :rolleyes:
Got a few more Hockenheim pics though.....

cheers Marty

#36 Martin Roessler

Martin Roessler
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:40

here we go.....
Grand Prix Hockenheim 26.05 1963

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

cheers marty

#37 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member

  • 240 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 07 November 2006 - 10:38

Interesting thing I found last night about Rudi Thalhammer . First man to use a Schleifleitner 6 speed gearbox on his Norton I believe and also raced a Domiracer

http://www.classic-m...p?threadid=504

#38 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 07 November 2006 - 11:54

Posted Image

The Suzukis were the RK66 50cc water-cooled model shown at the 1963 German GP at Hockenheim. No 202 was Georg Anscheidt's bike, but I can't think who his team mates were. Hugh Anderson? Fumio Ito?

#39 Martin Roessler

Martin Roessler
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 07 November 2006 - 12:06

200 Degner,
201 Morishita Isao,
203 Ichino Michio....
my father wrote next to the picture with #202
"The japanese rider Itoh Mitsuo at his 50ccm Suzuki"
He is definately one of the japanese riders mentionned above ,obviously giving the mechanic behind the bike a hand...but who is he...?
cheers Marty

Advertisement

#40 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 07 November 2006 - 13:46

Martin

The Japanese Suzuki team riders were Isao Morishita, Michio Ichino and Mitsuo Itoh (as well as Ernst Degner) and there's a small amount about them on the Net.

#41 knickerbrook

knickerbrook
  • Member

  • 1,027 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 07 November 2006 - 15:22

Here's more names for that wonderful Brands Hatch "who's-who".
Definites are:- 6 Rex Butcher; 2 Griff Jenkins; 9 Bill Ivy; 16 Peter Williams; 11 Derek Minter; Rod Gould (behind Minter); 1 John Cooper; 3 Ron Chandler; 20 Tom Phillips.
Possibilities are:- 4 Dan Shorey? 23 Graham Sharp (next to Williams)? 19 Brian Ball? (Can't see Blanchard though?).

Thanks renzo - I loved this era! Any more like this?

#42 picblanc

picblanc
  • Member

  • 12,529 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 08 November 2006 - 20:02

Ha found it!! great pic renzo of the Brands start, is (23) Tony Godfrey? all a bit before my time :)
G.

#43 renzo

renzo
  • Member

  • 821 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 09 November 2006 - 11:40

yes i think it is tony godfrey,i met him a few times in the 70's as he went to the same social club as my former entrant ray bennet,he was still very affected by the terrible tt crash on the works yamaha in the 60's.

#44 Jonas

Jonas
  • Member

  • 221 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 09 November 2006 - 17:45

Originally posted by Martin Roessler

Posted Image
Norton 500 ccm
Fahrer:
Sven O.Gunnarson
Schweden (verletzt)

Do you have a picture of the bike as it is today?

Sure! Photo of the same bike in 2005:
Posted Image

#45 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 09 November 2006 - 18:51

A nice standard bike, Jonas, except for the awful 'panel beating' at the front of the petrol tank. :eek:

#46 Martin Roessler

Martin Roessler
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 09 November 2006 - 21:28

Hey Jonas,
thanks for the pic! Great to see the bike survived :clap:
btw. i like the restauration with the dents still in the tank .... :up:
once again...this forum is simply the best!!!!!
cheers marty

#47 Jonas

Jonas
  • Member

  • 221 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 10 November 2006 - 08:55

Originally posted by Martin Roessler
i like the restauration with the dents still in the tank .... :up:

The bike has actually never been restored, at least not in the ground-up sence. It has been in continuous use from new up until this day and, of course, overhauled mechanically every now and then. So the fuel tank, for instance, has never been re-sprayed. Of course one can have thoughts about removing the dents and make it all shining again. But I prefer a Manx Norton that looks, and indeed IS, original. Sadly, you rarely see one these days......

#48 Paul Rochdale

Paul Rochdale
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 10 November 2006 - 11:24

My apologies Jonas, I didn't appreciate that the dent was as a result of the earlier crash as it's not shown in the old photo. I'm sure you know that some riders added deeper dents in this area to make more space for their hands.

#49 Jonas

Jonas
  • Member

  • 221 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 10 November 2006 - 11:38

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
My apologies Jonas, I didn't appreciate that the dent was as a result of the earlier crash as it's not shown in the old photo. I'm sure you know that some riders added deeper dents in this area to make more space for their hands.

No, it's correct that the dents have been made on purpose for someone with - apparently - big hands. They probably didn't have to be as big as they are. But my point is that this bike has been like this since its early days (although not in the old photo, which was from the bike's very first race) and therefore it's not obvious that it should be changed in order to make it more aesthitical.

#50 knickerbrook

knickerbrook
  • Member

  • 1,027 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 10 November 2006 - 15:57

Love the picture of the "living and breathing" Manx (as opposed to pristine restorations and replicas!). I notice a substitute road-going gearbox there, with something strange going on gear-lever/linkeage wise. Maybe a conversion to left-footed operation? (but can't see a brake pedal if that is the case?).

I have to say that my money's on Graham Sharp for that number 23 at Brands (I don't think it's Tony Godfrey). He was a regular mid-fielder and quite handy around that time. As I recall, he had a dark lid with small white cross at the front and rode a Manx with black and white Avon fairing (Minter-style). Anyone confirm?