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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#7801 germanty

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:25

More good stuff, germanty.

Roy Minto on his G50 on the Island 59ish?



No Russ not Roy who if I remember was particularly quick at Brands Hatch. This rider is at the front of the queue in a pic we have had before.

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#7802 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:37

Derek Minter (5) but why is Mike Hailwood standing by the side?

#7803 Rennmax

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 11:13

Derek Minter (5) but why is Mike Hailwood standing by the side?


Because Jim Adams is sitting on his bike

#7804 larryd

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:20

Because Jim Adams is sitting on his bike


Nice one Renn!

Plus of course Stan the Wallet standing next to Mike.

It's the 1960 TT - I suspect a practice shot - with the high sun, Thursday afternoon - or, of course, Senior warm-up about 10.30 Friday morning.

Second thoughts, given the size of the crowd, probably the latter.

81 is J C Simmonds, 5 of course is Minter, 29 is Jack Brett, and 54 is George Northwood on a 350 Manx.


#7805 Rennmax

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:41

Nice one Renn!

Plus of course Stan the Wallet standing next to Mike.

It's the 1960 TT - I suspect a practice shot - with the high sun, Thursday afternoon - or, of course, Senior warm-up about 10.30 Friday morning.

Second thoughts, given the size of the crowd, probably the latter.

81 is J C Simmonds, 5 of course is Minter, 29 is Jack Brett, and 54 is George Northwood on a 350 Manx.


I know we discussed this pic before Larry, so I should remember the answers :blush: (Alzheimer was German after all) , is the gent in the background on the far right young Vic Willoughby?

Edited by Rennmax, 01 April 2012 - 12:42.


#7806 germanty

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 15:26

I know we discussed this pic before Larry, so I should remember the answers :blush: (Alzheimer was German after all) , is the gent in the background on the far right young Vic Willoughby?


I worked briefly with Vic Willoughby and it is'nt him. Above the back of Simmonds however is Steve Lancefield I believe.

#7807 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 17:08

No Russ not Roy who if I remember was particularly quick at Brands Hatch. This rider is at the front of the queue in a pic we have had before.

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Ah yes, germanty, Jack Simmonds: do you recall him going really well at the Palace?


#7808 tonyed

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 17:42

What a great piccie. I'm 62 and really too young :lol: to remember this period, but the atmosphere of the photo exudes that period of the great 500 singles.

Even Jack Burnicle on Eurosport from Imola said yesterday that his first great memory of road racing was the thunder of an open megga 500 OHC Manx.

In the late 60s and early 70s even though by that time I was embroiled in my own racing I remember the sound of those machines thundering round the back at Brands at the Internationals (we no longer have).

My favorite vantage point was along the straight leading up to Hawthorns in the trees, easily available from Druids where many watched. Must have been 1968 RoTS where Hailwood had the 297 six and all the home stars were on singles before H&S and NOISE control ruined everything I hold dear.

Then when we had to fit silencers to the TZs and other two strokes that ruined the 'sound of tearing calico' as Randy Mamola once described the sound of an unsilenced TZ, the world lost a great sound that even now is travelling to far off stars. Lucky Aliens :cool:

Now what we got :evil:

Edited by tonyed, 02 April 2012 - 17:43.


#7809 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 18:44

What a great piccie. I'm 62 and really too young :lol: to remember this period, but the atmosphere of the photo exudes that period of the great 500 singles.

Even Jack Burnicle on Eurosport from Imola said yesterday that his first great memory of road racing was the thunder of an open megga 500 OHC Manx.

In the late 60s and early 70s even though by that time I was embroiled in my own racing I remember the sound of those machines thundering round the back at Brands at the Internationals (we no longer have).

My favorite vantage point was along the straight leading up to Hawthorns in the trees, easily available from Druids where many watched. Must have been 1968 RoTS where Hailwood had the 297 six and all the home stars were on singles before H&S and NOISE control ruined everything I hold dear.

Then when we had to fit silencers to the TZs and other two strokes that ruined the 'sound of tearing calico' as Randy Mamola once described the sound of an unsilenced TZ, the world lost a great sound that even now is travelling to far off stars. Lucky Aliens :cool:

Now what we got :evil:



With the Mint about to be the first bloke to lap at over the ton on a single. Judging by his letterheads, Derek was clearly justifiably proud of this achievement.

Brands memories could form a whole new thread, Tony :)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 02 April 2012 - 18:46.


#7810 terryshep

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 16:09

What a great piccie. I'm 62 and really too young :lol: to remember this period, but the atmosphere of the photo exudes that period of the great 500 singles.

Even Jack Burnicle on Eurosport from Imola said yesterday that his first great memory of road racing was the thunder of an open megga 500 OHC Manx.

In the late 60s and early 70s even though by that time I was embroiled in my own racing I remember the sound of those machines thundering round the back at Brands at the Internationals (we no longer have).

My favorite vantage point was along the straight leading up to Hawthorns in the trees, easily available from Druids where many watched. Must have been 1968 RoTS where Hailwood had the 297 six and all the home stars were on singles before H&S and NOISE control ruined everything I hold dear.

Then when we had to fit silencers to the TZs and other two strokes that ruined the 'sound of tearing calico' as Randy Mamola once described the sound of an unsilenced TZ, the world lost a great sound that even now is travelling to far off stars. Lucky Aliens :cool:

Now what we got :evil:


Some of us even remember the sound of the Porcupine and the Gambalunga, Tony! How right you are about the sounds.


#7811 knickerbrook

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 14:50

I sooo agree Tony!
Like you, I was an avid spectator in my teens before I went racing myself, and went to many of the home internationals in the late sixties/early seventies (including the Race of the South) and have loved the british singles ever since. For me, nothing can compare to the atmosphere when riders lined up on the grid for the start of the Race of the Year main race, especially when four strokes were still a force - the drama of that moment, the expectation, smell, noise, nerves - you could cut it with a knife! One of my ambitions was to ride in that race one day! Never managed it of course, but rode in the supporting races a couple of times. Lining up on that Mallory grid and seeing that bank crammed solid with thousands of spectators (even as an "also-ran") is a memory I'll always cherish :up: !

#7812 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 21:07

WWW?
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#7813 larryd

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 21:54

WWW?
Posted Image


Ulster Grand Prix, 1960. 350s at Dundrod Hairpin, in practice.

41 Terry Shep AJS 7R

39 SMBH AJS 7R

2 Gary Hocking MV

28 Ralph Rensen Norton

69 Jack Findlay Norton

Terryshep, you were entered on a Norton - why did you swap to the "pretty bike"??

 ;)


#7814 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:17

Blimey, Larry - did you witness this one? Hocking on the Twin, which presumably really was a big motor? I don't like the look of Hailwood's fairing (Ducati style ?) as it seems to be very restricting on the leg dangling front.

#7815 larryd

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:38

Blimey, Larry - did you witness this one? Hocking on the Twin, which presumably really was a big motor? I don't like the look of Hailwood's fairing (Ducati style ?) as it seems to be very restricting on the leg dangling front.


As they say, Russ, "I was there" !!

And in those days, nobody but nobody dangled their legs.

Terryshep will, I think, confirm this  ;)

The "350" MV Twin was a 286cc - an over-bored 250


#7816 exclubracer

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:39

WWW?
Posted Image

Perhaps the camera angle is deceptive but there doesn't seem to be much of a downhill gradient from the apex of the corner, compared to more recent pics?

#7817 larryd

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:54

Perhaps the camera angle is deceptive but there doesn't seem to be much of a downhill gradient from the apex of the corner, compared to more recent pics?


Not really, Mick - we are here looking at the original Hairpin, which was a genuine hairpin bend.

Early to mid-60s, the circuit was changed to turn right, about 50/60 yards before this, across what was/is in effect a link road. The run down from Tornagrough through this modern "hairpin" (in reality two right-angle bends with a steepish 10 yards between them, leading out on to the run to the Flow Bog) is the downhill gradient that you see in modern-day pics - the run on down from there to the old corner levelled out slightly as this pic shows, and the run through the old hairpin was quite level.

If you follow me . . . . . . .


#7818 exclubracer

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:09

Not really, Mick - we are here looking at the original Hairpin, which was a genuine hairpin bend.

Early to mid-60s, the circuit was changed to turn right, about 50/60 yards before this, across what was/is in effect a link road. The run down from Tornagrough through this modern "hairpin" (in reality two right-angle bends with a steepish 10 yards between them, leading out on to the run to the Flow Bog) is the downhill gradient that you see in modern-day pics - the run on down from there to the old corner levelled out slightly as this pic shows, and the run through the old hairpin was quite level.

If you follow me . . . . . . .

Yes, gotcha Larry, many thanks for that. :up:

#7819 Paul Collins

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 00:30

Yes, gotcha Larry, many thanks for that. :up:


Yep the original hairpin is the fork in the road, and as you say, the new link was cut through between the roads further back.

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#7820 larryd

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:39

Yep the original hairpin is the fork in the road, and as you say, the new link was cut through between the roads further back.


Wasn't a new link, Paul - it was always there. They just decided to use it !!

#7821 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 18:23

Dennis getting some well deserved exposure in '63.
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#7822 Paul Collins

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:13

Wasn't a new link, Paul - it was always there. They just decided to use it !!


I never knew that Larry, I always thought they'd cut the 'new' bit in

#7823 germanty

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:37

Dennis getting some well deserved exposure in '63.
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Nice picture. With his 'lean angle' Dennis definitely was the 'Jamie Whitham' of his day. I made Rex Butcher not sure of No 15 though.

#7824 Rennmax

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:19

Nice picture. With his 'lean angle' Dennis definitely was the 'Jamie Whitham' of his day. I made Rex Butcher not sure of No 15 though.


Lewis Young??

#7825 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:30

All correct, gents. Rex a bit concerned about where his front wheel is?

#7826 Rennmax

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:20

Think we already had a shot from this scene from a different angle.
Perhaps Provini had more than a passing interest in switching to classes where he had not to deal with Ubbiali, the Conte's favourite?
Bill Webster on the left I suppose

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Edited by Rennmax, 07 April 2012 - 14:23.


#7827 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 15:18

Think we already had a shot from this scene from a different angle.
Perhaps Provini had more than a passing interest in switching to classes where he had not to deal with Ubbiali, the Conte's favourite?
Bill Webster on the left I suppose

Yes Renn, there seems to be quite a few shots of Tarquinio hanging around the fours. Do we know if he was ever given a chance to throw his leg over one?

I rekon that's an Italiano on the left - think he's appered elsewhere? John Hartle's crash hat on the saddle too.


#7828 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 15:33

This can't be for real can it? Driver and Read are about to collide big style?
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#7829 germanty

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 16:34

A garage round the back of Douglas probably prior to the 1959 Junior TT. I have Hartle on his No 2 bike and Surtees on his No 4 machine somewhere on the course. Spot the differences.

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#7830 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 17:27

A garage round the back of Douglas probably prior to the 1959 Junior TT. I have Hartle on his No 2 bike and Surtees on his No 4 machine somewhere on the course. Spot the differences.


The rear units, which are different, are attached to a changed frame arrangement; front down tubes different too and missing a bracing cross piece; Hartle's riding position also seems to be lower; front brake plate, or perhaps brakes are not the same. Presumably Surtees had the newer bike.

Could the location be Ginger Hall?  ;)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 April 2012 - 17:38.


#7831 LittleChris

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 20:00

This can't be for real can it? Driver and Read are about to collide big style?
Posted Image


Parabolica at Monza ?

#7832 Rennmax

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 20:17



# 26 Silvio Grassetti on a Bianchi ?

#7833 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 21:28

I think you're right chaps but don't you rekon there's something odd about Driver's trajectory - almost as if he's been added into the picture, or perhaps it's some trick of the camera?
Or have I had too many sherberts?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 April 2012 - 21:29.


#7834 LittleChris

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 22:00

I've had a couple too :D , but to me the oddity is the angle of Reads front wheel. Almost on opposite lock whereas the other two seem to be aiming for the late 2nd apex at the Parabolica. Very strange. Nevermind, another bottle of IPA should help solve the problem ....

#7835 tonyed

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:38

Parabolica at Monza ?


Another oddment about this photo is the angle of the shadows.

Drivers' shadow is at a slightly different angle than the two others, like he'd been photographed at a slightly earlier or later time in the race. :confused:

Is this another piece of evidence to support the 'Parallel Universe' theory? :stoned:

Edited by tonyed, 08 April 2012 - 05:39.


#7836 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:30

"Nice one Renn!"

Oh really? Not if people like me have not heard of Jim Adams. Or is this part of the forum becoming so exclusive, most of us are excluded?

#7837 Yendor

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:16

This can't be for real can it? Driver and Read are about to collide big style?
Posted Image


Maybe I'm seeing things but there appears to be something strange going on inside the yellow lines, and there appears to be a faintly discernable
line running up the picture where I have marked it in pink. Probably reading too much into it but that shadow from the rider at the right of the pic
does look completely wrong.

Posted Image

Edited by Yendor, 08 April 2012 - 08:18.


#7838 germanty

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:11

[quote name='Yendor' date='Apr 8 2012, 08:16' post='5647016']
Maybe I'm seeing things but there appears to be something strange going on inside the yellow lines, and there appears to be a faintly discernable
line running up the picture where I have marked it in pink. Probably reading too much into it but that shadow from the rider at the right of the pic
does look completely wrong.

Posted Image

Also the riders shadows do not appear to line up either and Drivers' shadow should extend beyond the rear of Read.

#7839 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:29

"Nice one Renn!"

Oh really? Not if people like me have not heard of Jim Adams. Or is this part of the forum becoming so exclusive, most of us are excluded?

It's unlkely any malice was intended, Paul. The picture was discussed not that long ago, including, I think, SMBH's spannerman, so there was probably a leg pulling element there. But you're right, we aint the Paddock Club.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 09 April 2012 - 09:01.


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#7840 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:36

This can't be for real can it? Driver and Read are about to collide big style?
Posted Image


Also.....Isn't Driver's image a smidgen too small?

#7841 Yendor

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:40

Also.....Isn't Driver's image a smidgen too small?


Yes I'd agree with that.

#7842 tonyed

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 14:06

Yes I'd agree with that.


I fink we've been dun :evil:

#7843 fil2.8

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 14:38

I fink we've been dun :evil:




Wasn't originally in the News of the World , was it .........................??

:eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

#7844 terryshep

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 16:03

Ulster Grand Prix, 1960. 350s at Dundrod Hairpin, in practice.

41 Terry Shep AJS 7R

39 SMBH AJS 7R

2 Gary Hocking MV

28 Ralph Rensen Norton

69 Jack Findlay Norton

Terryshep, you were entered on a Norton - why did you swap to the "pretty bike"??

;)

Sorry for the tardy reply, Larry, I must have been asleep.

I was entered on Francis Beart's Norton but he had recently bought a 7R "for evaluation" as he put it, so we decided to try it out in the Ulster. I don't remember how it went but we didn't pursue it, as I always preferred the Norton.

The only time we dangled our legs in those days was when we were riding back to the pits after falling off! Valentino is responsible for that particular style.

#7845 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 19:43

Ah Russell, I knew Nobby Clark as Hailwood's mechanic. I wasn't aware of anyone else and hadn't seen an earlier thread.

#7846 picblanc

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:48

Def two photos stitched together.

#7847 Rennmax

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:28

The only time we dangled our legs in those days was when we were riding back to the pits after falling off! Valentino is responsible for that particular style.


Slightly OT, but how do these guys use the rear brake in right hand bends? Have they all switched to thumb operated devices like Doohan did, though for a different reason?

#7848 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 20:19

Not a lot to go on, but does anyone have an idea of the location?
Posted Image
Posted Image
This should help:
Posted Image

Edited by Russell Burrows, 16 April 2012 - 21:17.


#7849 TZ350H

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 21:58

Not a lot to go on, but does anyone have an idea of the location?
Posted Image
Posted Image
This should help:
Posted Image


NW200?

#7850 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 22:04

See where you're coming from but it's not there.