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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#7851 fil2.8

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 22:22

See where you're coming from but it's not there.



Daytona , US , GP 1965 or 4 ??


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#7852 larryd

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 22:23

NW200?


Bikes look far too neat & tidy to be "of the time" - very nice, but not what I would call "working bicycles"!

Recent Classic meeting in Aus/NZ?

Afterthought - looks like an Arter team??

Edited by larryd, 16 April 2012 - 22:24.


#7853 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 22:29

Fraid none of that is right, gents.

#7854 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 22:38

Too early for clues?

#7855 fil2.8

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 23:08

Sweden , Russ :confused: ??

#7856 larryd

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 23:40

Sweden , Russ :confused: ??


Georges Monneret's son Jeannot?

Where, I have no idea . . . . . . . . . .


#7857 philippe7

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 00:33

This should help:
Posted Image


No idea about where and when , but this definitely looks like a young Jean-Pierre Beltoise !

#7858 Sakkie

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:56

No idea about where and when , but this definitely looks like a young Jean-Pierre Beltoise !

Yes, I thought so too. It´s probably somewhere on a French/Belgium coastal circuit that the Brits popped over to. Can´t think of one off hand though.
Seems a bit odd that there are two # 84´s in the first photo. They both look like G50´s, so I am really confused. :confused:
Edit to add: Unless the rider had a spare bike of course, but that would have been highly unlikely in those times, no?

Edited by Sakkie, 17 April 2012 - 06:59.


#7859 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:12

Clearly Tom Kirby bikes. Zandvoort is a coastal track?

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#7860 germanty

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:51

Clearly Tom Kirby bikes. Zandvoort is a coastal track?


In 1963 young Beltoise obtained the 12 hour record on a VAP (Special Monneret) at Monthlery but its not there.

Weather looks very British (N/Ireland, I of M) could this be testing machines somewhere?

Incidentally http://www.trackpedi...racks_in_Europe is a good website to spend an hour or two working out the answer to one of Russell's questions

#7861 Richard Wood

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:09

Too early for clues?

How about Rimini??

#7862 LittleChris

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 13:40

Definitely J-P Beltoise.

Could it be Casablanca - He was 5th there in 1963 ?

#7863 Russell Burrows

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 14:23

Definitely J-P Beltoise.

Could it be Casablanca - He was 5th there in 1963 ?

Well Done Chris, Casablanca it is, or at least I hope it is. In '63 Tom Kirby shipped a whole swag of bikes from Hornchurch to Morocco for what I seem to recall was tagged the 'Casablanca GP.' I recall reading about it in the comics. I'm reasonably sure Ron Chandler and Roger Hunter were included on the list of Kirby's pilots, I can't though recall the rest. I remembered it as an end of season affair. The only reference I can find to a '63 race meeting though happened in May of that year, where Jack Findlay cleaned up. The pictures are from a French /Moroccan site where referrences to Ain Diab, the beach side circuit, are included in the blurb. Why though is everyone dressed up as if it were Scarborough? And Yes that's Beltoise.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 18 April 2012 - 15:27.


#7864 LittleChris

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 14:44

The pictures are from a French /Moroccan site where referrences to Ain Diab, the beach side circuit, are included in the blurb. Why though is everyone dressed up as if it were Scarborough?


The Atlantic can be a bit blowy, as can be seen from the waves in the background of the photo !!


#7865 Russell Burrows

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 15:42

Bikes look far too neat & tidy to be "of the time" - very nice, but not what I would call "working bicycles"!

Recent Classic meeting in Aus/NZ?

Afterthought - looks like an Arter team??

I knew you meant Kirby, Larry.;) You'll recall they were always immaculately presented. Actually, because this is '63, they aren't as externally uniform as they later where. I remember them afterwards as all having cooling rings fitted to highly polished heavily vented brakes. The heavy old tanks too were changed to fibre glass versions, as on G50 number 84. I had one on my 7R. AMC were supposed to be using his motors for ongoing development work. I had a conversation with Ron Chandler a while back and he confirmed there were definitely quick and less quick Kirby bikes. Top marks to Uncle Tom though aye, as by the looks of it he took at least six bikes to Casablanca, possibly more. Notwithstanding the help from AMC and some dosh from BP, it was clearly a major commitment that must have cost him heaps. His shop in East London was a tiny affair that probably didn't generate too much by the way of bank rolling his impressive team, one he ran for more than a decade.
Posted Image

Edited by Russell Burrows, 18 April 2012 - 15:42.


#7866 larryd

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 21:02

[quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Apr 17 2012, 15:42' post='5667341']

I knew you meant Kirby, Larry. ;)

Not really, Russ, to be honest.

I had "Tom" in my head, and then set the points wrong for the train of thought !!

Senior moment . . . . . . . :blush: :blush: :blush:


#7867 Russell Burrows

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 21:26

In 1963 young Beltoise obtained the 12 hour record on a VAP (Special Monneret) at Monthlery but its not there.

Voila.... with his G50 alongside, as seen in the other shot from behind the bikes. . Do we know if he raced this creation in Casablanca?
Posted Image

Edited by Russell Burrows, 17 April 2012 - 21:35.


#7868 germanty

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:44

Voila.... with his G50 alongside, as seen in the other shot from behind the bikes. . Do we know if he raced this creation in Casablanca?
Posted Image


Russell I can only find this translated quote from an earlier posting in 2007.

"A small token of JPB: in 1963 a meeting was held in Casablanca motorcyclist whose race of 500 cc was won by Jack Findlay (later immortalized on screen in "Continental Circus"). On this occasion the young JPB drove a "Vap Monneret" 50 cc with which he flew over the race of small cars and made me dream of being in his place despite being too young ... Since that day I ceased not to follow the career of JPB, Mr. Beltoise happy birthday!

Written by: Christian Magnanou | Thursday, April 26, 2007

#7869 germanty

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:51

Russell I can only find this translated quote from an earlier posting in 2007.

"A small token of JPB: in 1963 a meeting was held in Casablanca motorcyclist whose race of 500 cc was won by Jack Findlay (later immortalized on screen in "Continental Circus"). On this occasion the young JPB drove a "Vap Monneret" 50 cc with which he flew over the race of small cars and made me dream of being in his place despite being too young ... Since that day I ceased not to follow the career of JPB, Mr. Beltoise happy birthday!

Written by: Christian Magnanou | Thursday, April 26, 2007


Also shows Findlay the winner on a McIntyre Matchless!!

#7870 Russell Burrows

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:21

Also shows Findlay the winner on a McIntyre Matchless!!


.......and on a Mondial in the 250/350 race. Do you have any memory of who was on the Kirby bikes ?

And thanks or the VAP info, germanty.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 18 April 2012 - 12:22.


#7871 germanty

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 16:56

.......and on a Mondial in the 250/350 race. Do you have any memory of who was on the Kirby bikes ?

And thanks or the VAP info, germanty.


Cant seem to find anything yet on this. Have you seen this site - quite interesting.
http://archives.jamp...of_7R_ _G50.pdf

#7872 Russell Burrows

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 17:23

Cant seem to find anything yet on this. Have you seen this site - quite interesting.
http://archives.jamp...of_7R_ _G50.pdf

Yes thanks, german, I have a copy at home somewhere. Did you ever ride a 7R/G50?

#7873 germanty

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:59

Yes thanks, german, I have a copy at home somewhere. Did you ever ride a 7R/G50?


Yes a 1956 7R from Monty & Ward - salesman a Mr Degens!!!!

#7874 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:34

Yes a 1956 7R from Monty & Ward - salesman a Mr Degens!!!!


That's interesting, was he then riding for Geoff ? Lovely things 7R's. Am I right to assume you opted for a Manx later rather than a G50 ? If so, a definite preference or more to do with what was available ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 19 April 2012 - 08:53.


#7875 knickerbrook

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:54

Thanks for posting that 7R/G50 article Germanty - most informative!

Graham, if you're watching, do you recall in one of the very earliest photos you posted (on the old thread) of a Snetterton grid - there was clearly a G50 seat visible that looked completely out of place in that company - and we (or at least I) was scratching our heads as to who the rider might have been? Well after reading this article, I now think it may have been Cathcart :lol: !

#7876 picblanc

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 20:01

Thanks for posting that 7R/G50 article Germanty - most informative!

Graham, if you're watching, do you recall in one of the very earliest photos you posted (on the old thread) of a Snetterton grid - there was clearly a G50 seat visible that looked completely out of place in that company - and we (or at least I) was scratching our heads as to who the rider might have been? Well after reading this article, I now think it may have been Cathcart :lol: !



Hi Barry, yes I remember, I dont think Snett was Cathcart, he was not listed in programme or in my additional rider notes, got scanner probs at moment so I cant re scan that pic @ higher res but soon as I can I will do so.

#7877 germanty

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 16:17

That's interesting, was he then riding for Geoff ? Lovely things 7R's. Am I right to assume you opted for a Manx later rather than a G50 ? If so, a definite preference or more to do with what was available ?


Sorry for delay. I think DD was working on the odd day in exchange for GM tuning his bike(?).

Yes your right - availability and affordability were the main issues especially if you were only a 'mediocre' rider like me.

I think like you however, once you have had a Manx theres no going back!

If you were a good rider (I know we have some great ones on this link) then I presume you got payed to ride whatever was given to you a bit like a jockey.

Must have been awful for them being made to ride an MV Agusta or a 4 pot Gilera, or Petty, Lancefield, Beart tuned single.

#7878 Russell Burrows

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 19:15

Sorry for delay. I think DD was working on the odd day in exchange for GM tuning his bike(?).

Yes your right - availability and affordability were the main issues especially if you were only a 'mediocre' rider like me.

I think like you however, once you have had a Manx theres no going back!

If you were a good rider (I know we have some great ones on this link) then I presume you got payed to ride whatever was given to you a bit like a jockey.

Must have been awful for them being made to ride an MV Agusta or a 4 pot Gilera, or Petty, Lancefield, Beart tuned single.

Never had the opportunity to have a go on a Manx, germanty. Of the good old Brit singles, I rode only the 7R - bought too from Geoff's Edenbridge shop. As a kid I used to cycle over to the Twickenham shop to drool over the serried ranks of racers.

Just in case anyone hasn't read this little piece on Degens:
http://www.dresda.co.uk/ljk.asp

Edited by Russell Burrows, 21 April 2012 - 19:27.


#7879 Russell Burrows

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:24

Aint nothing going on but the rent.... :well:

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#7880 Rennmax

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:07

Wake up call gents :wave:

Derek Minter is celebrating his 80th birthday today :clap:

#7881 Russell Burrows

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:32

Wake up call gents :wave:

Derek Minter is celebrating his 80th birthday today :clap:

Thanks for reminding us, Renn. A working class guy who's career started late and without the benefit of money or backing, yet would go on to became one of our very best because he was so damn fast - well, that and commitment, guts and determination. Happy birthday, Derek.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 28 April 2012 - 22:48.


#7882 germanty

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:02

Wake up call gents :wave:

Derek Minter is celebrating his 80th birthday today :clap:

Posted Image

Happy Birthday Derek. You gave me and thousands of others great racing particularly at Brands my local track.

#7883 fil2.8

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:51

Thanks for reminding us, Renn. A working class guy, who's career started so late with no money or backing, became one of our very best because he was so damn fast - well, that and commitment, guts and determination. Happy birthday, Derek.



Yes , happy birthday , Derek :clap: , and well said , Russ :up: :wave:

#7884 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 17:21

Short in stature, high in ability and courage, determined and bluntly outspoken, he did himself no favours winning the 250cc TT ahead of the works Hondas, my hero as a young man, a Man of Kent.

#7885 Sakkie

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:26

One of the real stars of the great British "short circuit" scratching days. Also awesome on the long ones like the TT. Derek, you were everyones hero mate.
God bless. Happy birthday and many happy returns.

#7886 Tonka

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:38

A chat with the great Derek Minter, from 2006 - you'd never know he was 74 at the time.





#7887 Tonka

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:47

The Mint on a 250 Honda 4 at Oulton



The poster said it was 1962, but there's some dispute about the actual date. I'm sure someone here knows the right date.




#7888 PTJ

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:24

Yes happy birthday Derek and many more of them.
Thank you Tonka for the youtube link, great to see.


#7889 germanty

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:30

Aint nothing going on but the rent.... :well:


Posted Image


Any offers?

#7890 Russell Burrows

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:19

Any offers?

My first instinct was Degens, then I thought too slim.... Wish I could enlarge it.... as I can't, I'll go with DD ?

#7891 Russell Burrows

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:58

The Mint on a 250 Honda 4 at Oulton



The poster said it was 1962, but there's some dispute about the actual date. I'm sure someone here knows the right date.


I don't think Derek rode the Hondis entered four other than in '62. Hailwood too rode Purslow's Benelli the same year.


#7892 knickerbrook

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:26

Posted Image

Odd petrol tank?


#7893 Russell Burrows

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 18:03

Still at it after all these years:


Edited by Russell Burrows, 29 April 2012 - 19:18.


#7894 germanty

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:43

I don't think Derek rode the Hondis entered four other than in '62. Hailwood too rode Purslow's Benelli the same year.



Not Degans Russ! This chap had a black Jaguar Hearse to convey his bikes around (think slept in it too). Interesting YouTube pics of DD though

#7895 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:14

Not Degans Russ! This chap had a black Jaguar Hearse to convey his bikes around (think slept in it too). Interesting YouTube pics of DD though


Ah, don't know about the black hearse, germanty, although it does sound familiarish. Looking at this bloke again- I wonder if it's Roger Hunter?


#7896 germanty

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 17:02

Ah, don't know about the black hearse, germanty, although it does sound familiarish. Looking at this bloke again- I wonder if it's Roger Hunter?



Not Roger Hunter Russ but Lewis Young at Oulton Park 1960. Not sure about the funny tank though must be a story there somewhere!

#7897 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 20:53

Not Roger Hunter Russ but Lewis Young at Oulton Park 1960. Not sure about the funny tank though must be a story there somewhere!


Ah, that's well and truly stumped, germanty. Nice shot too.

#7898 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:00

By way of a warm up WWW?
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#7899 Rennmax

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:24

Front row l to r: Dale, Driver, Redman, Hocking

Early '61 ?

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#7900 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:33

Front row l to r: Dale, Driver, Redman, Hocking

Early '61 ?

Spot on, Renn. Czecho, I think.