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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#7951 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 19:52

Yes, he won the 1971 Manx on a Yamaha, the first 2-stroke to win it. I was watching at the exit of Governors Bridge that day, Ken Huggett was in the lead and the primary chain on his Norton broke as he accelerated out of the dip on the last lap and he could do nothing but get off and push.

Now there was a good little rider: beautifully prepared Manx with a dark blue Peel mountain mile fairing?

No offers on the blokes at Govenors ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 19 June 2012 - 19:53.


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#7952 larryd

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 20:25

Now there was a good little rider: beautifully prepared Manx with a dark blue Peel mountain mile fairing?

No offers on the blokes at Govenors ?


Geordie Buchan running second ??

#7953 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 21:00

Geordie Buchan running second ??


Yes, Larry. :up:


#7954 GD66

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 21:27

I think Ken Huggett was in the mix and broke down when Dave Hughes won the Senior in 1972 as well.

And the Mellano Trophy is MUCH bigger than that...wonder where that disappeared to ?

#7955 johnyC

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 21:41

Ralph Rensen

In the TT section of Continental Circus, Nanou and Sheila Hartle place flowers on Ralph's grave, in the cemetery opposite the grandstand. Thanks for the info' on Nanou, I often wondered what became of her, after her gp life with Jack.

Edited by johnyC, 19 June 2012 - 21:43.


#7956 johnyC

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 21:49

I think Ken Huggett was in the mix and broke down when Dave Hughes won the Senior in 1972 as well.

And the Mellano Trophy is MUCH bigger than that...wonder where that disappeared to ?


I watched the 1972 mgp senior at Braddan bridge, where Ken fell off on the first lap. I think he broke a collar bone. Dave Williams was second (my dad & I shared a breakfast table with him and Ray Cowles) but this was only because Danny Shimmin's sprocket bolts sheared on the way down the mountain whilst leading on the last lap. There was a lovely Scott in the race too!

Edited by johnyC, 19 June 2012 - 21:52.


#7957 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 22:02

The bloke on the G50 ahead of George Buchan is well known, some of you will know him yourselves.

#7958 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 22:36

In the TT section of Continental Circus, Nanou and Sheila Hartle place flowers on Ralph's grave, in the cemetery opposite the grandstand. Thanks for the info' on Nanou, I often wondered what became of her, after her gp life with Jack.

Wasn't it a freakish mechanical failure of some sort that did for Ralph?

#7959 exclubracer

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 22:48

Yes, he won the 1971 Manx on a Yamaha, the first 2-stroke to win it. I was watching at the exit of Governors Bridge that day, Ken Huggett was in the lead and the primary chain on his Norton broke as he accelerated out of the dip on the last lap and he could do nothing but get off and push.

I remember some controversy over the result, Nigel's Yamaha was entered as 351cc and Ken Huggett's sponsor, Phil Kettle as I recall, protested the engine size and on the official measure it was indeed found to be a 351, the forerunner of many such results in the 500 class with the ubiquitous oversize 350s and also 'fablon specials' which were entered with a mere change of number background.

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#7960 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 22:54

How's about this one?
Posted Image

#7961 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 22:56

I remember some controversy over the result, Nigel's Yamaha was entered as 351cc and Ken Huggett's sponsor, Phil Kettle as I recall, protested the engine size and on the official measure it was indeed found to be a 351, the forerunner of many such results in the 500 class with the ubiquitous oversize 350s and also 'fablon specials' which were entered with a mere change of number background.

I think I recall reading about this. I wonder what percentage were really 351/4 ?

#7962 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 23:02

Posted Image


Welshman, Selwyn Griffiths, '64, Senior Manx winner. The first G50 win on the Island.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 19 June 2012 - 23:07.


#7963 exclubracer

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 23:10

I think I recall reading about this. I wonder what percentage were really 351/4 ?

Not that many I suspect, Russell. Number backgrounds were far cheaper than modded cranks, eh?

I think the genuine increased capacity was achieved by using eccentric crankpins to give a couple of mm extra on the stroke and used extra base gaskets to maintain the port timing.

Edited by exclubracer, 19 June 2012 - 23:14.


#7964 Rennmax

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:28

How's about this one?
Posted Image


Billie Nelson on his Paton in Assen pushing to the finish, but why is a sidecar outfit in the background pushed as well??

Edited by Rennmax, 20 June 2012 - 06:39.


#7965 Rennmax

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:31

Welshman, Selwyn Griffiths, '64, Senior Manx winner. The first G50 win on the Island.


He once bleeded the front brake of my bike in his garage at Pontypool...

#7966 GD66

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 07:30

Billie Nelson on his Paton in Assen pushing to the finish, but why is a sidecar outfit in the background pushed as well??



Probably being pushed out to the grid for the ensuing sidecar race, having waited for Billie to push in and complete the 500 finishers.
No warmup lap in those days !


#7967 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:22

Probably being pushed out to the grid for the ensuing sidecar race, having waited for Billie to push in and complete the 500 finishers.
No warmup lap in those days !

Yes, Billie looks too knackered for it to be the reverse. Bike's fly splattered too, and is the bloke on the right clapping?

#7968 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:23

He once bleeded the front brake of my bike in his garage at Pontypool...


A Be'em?


#7969 Rennmax

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:32

A Be'em?


Trying to wind me up Russ :) No, it was a Yamaha XS 650, a bike no one wanted in the late seventies, I rode it for 50 000 kms, was a good one within it's limits

#7970 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 13:00

Trying to wind me up Russ :) No, it was a Yamaha XS 650, a bike no one wanted in the late seventies, I rode it for 50 000 kms, was a good one within it's limits

As if.... What's the best bike you've ever owned or ridden ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 20 June 2012 - 13:00.


#7971 Rennmax

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:04

As if.... What's the best bike you've ever owned or ridden ?


Don't want to hijack this thread with my personal trifle, I own a Laverda triple which now needs some basic restoration , don't know whether it's a good bike, but I got accustomed to it in the last 3 decades

Edited by Rennmax, 20 June 2012 - 14:05.


#7972 Rennmax

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:29

A chap in a German forum is looking for the name of a British privateer who ran a Mondial in the early fifties. I only recollect Len Parry who had a factory supplied bike, as far as I know only for the TT. Any ideas? Thanks

#7973 Rennmax

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 14:38

During the coverage of the Post TT races at Billown which is on the air right now, it was announced that Pat Wise has past away
RIP


Some more information

http://www.thisisgri...tail/story.html

#7974 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 15:00

Don't want to hijack this thread with my personal trifle, I own a Laverda triple which now needs some basic restoration , don't know whether it's a good bike, but I got accustomed to it in the last 3 decades

What's wrong with the occasional trifle. This little Ducati was the first bike I can ever remember riding aged about 13. Three speed, hand change, nippy little thing. Looks good even now, aye.
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#7975 larryd

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 21:36

A chap in a German forum is looking for the name of a British privateer who ran a Mondial in the early fifties. I only recollect Len Parry who had a factory supplied bike, as far as I know only for the TT. Any ideas? Thanks


Maurice Cann ran a 125 Mondial, Renn - Ken Sprayson designed and built him a Reynolds frame/forks for it in 1953.

Arthur Wheeler also ran a 125.


#7976 larryd

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 21:38

Yes, Billie looks too knackered for it to be the reverse. Bike's fly splattered too, and is the bloke on the right clapping?


Bloke on the left is shaking his hand!

#7977 Rennmax

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 14:47

Maurice Cann ran a 125 Mondial, Renn - Ken Sprayson designed and built him a Reynolds frame/forks for it in 1953.

Arthur Wheeler also ran a 125.


Thanks a lot for your answer Larry! I've found this site

http://www.vintagebi...ial-125cc-dohc/

showing the bike you mentioned, it has the dohc works engine whereas the production racer (if this is the appropiate term in regard to the number of bikes) had a sohc motor.
The background of the story is that German rider Rudi Meister raced such a Mondial and his son now tries to trace a equal bike which allegedly found it's way to the UK in 52 or 53

http://www.feldbergr...ungsstuecke.htm

Edited by Rennmax, 21 June 2012 - 15:59.


#7978 Continental Circus

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:33

Thanks a lot for your answer Larry! I've found this site

http://www.vintagebi...ial-125cc-dohc/

showing the bike you mentioned, it has the dohc works engine whereas the production racer (if this is the appropiate term in regard to the number of bikes) had a sohc motor.
The background of the story is that German rider Rudi Meister raced such a Mondial and his son now tries to trace a equal bike which allegedly found it's way to the UK in 52 or 53

http://www.feldbergr...ungsstuecke.htm


Maurice Cann came from Leicester and his brother Tom Cann ran a m/c shop near Frog Island.
Maurice raced the Guzzi before getting a ride with Mondial.
Roy

#7979 Rennmax

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 14:50

Maurice Cann came from Leicester and his brother Tom Cann ran a m/c shop near Frog Island.
Maurice raced the Guzzi before getting a ride with Mondial.
Roy


Thanks Roy and welcome back!

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#7980 Rennmax

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:44

Probably being pushed out to the grid for the ensuing sidecar race, having waited for Billie to push in and complete the 500 finishers.
No warmup lap in those days !


A Dutch gent who kindly provided this pic told me that Billie eventually crashed fighting for second place

Posted Image

3 different styles, Jack's tucked in the neatest one IMHO

#7981 GD66

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:54

So, it's 1968 then.

#7982 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 14:52

Good, aye: http://www.gaskrank....t-6-l-19415.htm

#7983 knickerbrook

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 15:27

I enjoyed that Russ, thanks!
Looks like a great website to explore further - some good stuff on there, both old and current :up: .

#7984 tonyed

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 17:21

A Dutch gent who kindly provided this pic told me that Billie eventually crashed fighting for second place

Posted Image

3 different styles, Jack's tucked in the neatest one IMHO


Leading Wadder and Jock Findlay, the famous Scottish rider - no relation to Jack the (also) famous Orstralian of the same surname name who raced with a 'Tattiebogle' painted on his helmet rather than Jocks' Kangaroo (this was to confuse the opposition and police who were onto Jack when landed by sea from after being deported to the Antipodean penal colonies in Dickensian times).

Hope this clears up previous confusion that mistook the mooneyes painted on Scotsman John Coupars’ (of Coupar Angus, Fife, Scotland) helmet for the ones painted on John Coopers’ (from Derby, Ingerland) helmet. No relation.

As previously reported Maurice Cann took the ride another Leicester rider Maurice Couldn’t who gave up the sport prematurely.

It is a little known fact that Billy Nelson, like his famous predecessor, only had the use of one eye and died in the arms of Fred Hardy (of REG et al fame) during the battle of Trafalgar.

So I am lead to believe. :blush: :stoned: :confused: :wave:

Edited by tonyed, 03 July 2012 - 19:07.


#7985 fil2.8

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 18:47

Good, aye: http://www.gaskrank....t-6-l-19415.htm



Yes , Russ , very enjoyable , thanks :up: :wave:

#7986 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 20:56

Yes , Russ , very enjoyable , thanks :up: :wave:


Yes Phil, some imaginative camera angles too.

#7987 HEMEYLA

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 00:18

A Dutch gent who kindly provided this pic told me that Billie eventually crashed fighting for second place


Thats right, Billie crashed in the last lap, tried to restart the Paton but with the exhaustpipes full of sand there was no chance, so he pushed the bike to the finishline.

#7988 Rennmax

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:48

Yes Phil, some imaginative camera angles too.



More snippets from 61 and 63

http://www.youtube.com/user/jilmer1

#7989 Russell Burrows

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:15

More snippets from 61 and 63

http://www.youtube.com/user/jilmer1

Thanks Renn, not seen some of these before.

#7990 germanty

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:50

Thanks Renn, not seen some of these before.


Agreed great watching. I remember seeing a 4 pot Gilera complete with dustbin fairing leaning against a wall on the top floor of a little used museum in Turin a few years back. No information signs to inform public what it was - hope the curator eventually realised it's value.

#7991 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:17

John Hartle using all the road and with a smoking bike throughout the Senior race, or at least when swapping gears? Aland Shepherd taking oddly wide lines on the slow corners - overgeared maybe?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 July 2012 - 14:25.


#7992 Rennmax

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:39

Agreed great watching. I remember seeing a 4 pot Gilera complete with dustbin fairing leaning against a wall on the top floor of a little used museum in Turin a few years back. No information signs to inform public what it was - hope the curator eventually realised it's value.


Willi Marweski had 2 Gileras, a big part of his collection was auctioned last year, have no idea where these bikes are now

http://willismotorcy...x-Werksmaschine

#7993 serafini

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 17:40

Agreed great watching. I remember seeing a 4 pot Gilera complete with dustbin fairing leaning against a wall on the top floor of a little used museum in Turin a few years back. No information signs to inform public what it was - hope the curator eventually realised it's value.

Are you sure it had a dustbin? Many (25?) years ago, the Turin museum had two four cylinder Gileras; one was a nose-faired (bitsa) solo (which was moved on but I do not know who bought it - perhaps it had a dustbin but I did not see such a fairing); the other Gilera engine was in the Tarf record breaking car built by Piero Taruffi, which was still there a dozen years ago when I last visited. There was (and I believe may still be) a dustbin faired Gilera 4 in the Milan Science Museum; I believe that the factory presented it to the museum after some sort of commercial fair in Milan not long after it stopped racing. I doubt that there are many original dustbin fairings surviving, as the factory crushed many of them post-1957.

#7994 germanty

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:02

Are you sure it had a dustbin? Many (25?) years ago, the Turin museum had two four cylinder Gileras; one was a nose-faired (bitsa) solo (which was moved on but I do not know who bought it - perhaps it had a dustbin but I did not see such a fairing); the other Gilera engine was in the Tarf record breaking car built by Piero Taruffi, which was still there a dozen years ago when I last visited. There was (and I believe may still be) a dustbin faired Gilera 4 in the Milan Science Museum; I believe that the factory presented it to the museum after some sort of commercial fair in Milan not long after it stopped racing. I doubt that there are many original dustbin fairings surviving, as the factory crushed many of them post-1957.



Having thought about it yes it was a while ago I am now confused because I also went to the Milan Science Museum and I could have seen both Gilera displays. I was visiting the Fiat factory so I thought Turin of course.

It was definitely a Dustbin though so you are probably right.

Thanks for the Info.



#7995 graham houlihan

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:48

The Dustbin Gilera is still in Milan Science and Technology museum

Click here : milan science museum


#7996 germanty

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:08

The Dustbin Gilera is still in Milan Science and Technology museum

Click here : milan science museum



Thanks! Looks like many 'bums' have sat on it since I was there!

I wonder if it could be 'fired up' at some time or more likely there are no internals in the engine!

Must be all of 55 years since Bob Mac & Liberati rode one similar to this.

#7997 graham houlihan

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:32

Thanks! Looks like many 'bums' have sat on it since I was there!

I wonder if it could be 'fired up' at some time or more likely there are no internals in the engine!

Must be all of 55 years since Bob Mac & Liberati rode one similar to this.


I saw it back in the 1990s, but I'm sure the engine (at least) has been cleaned since then

#7998 pppdrive

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:34

How can anyone allow a Gilera 4 to end up in that condition? I'd gladly give it a home and clean it up a bit
Paul

#7999 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:04

Why does it look like a model on a mantelpiece?


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#8000 fil2.8

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:40

Why does it look like a model on a mantelpiece?



Yes , have to agree , Russ , I used to have the Protar model , which looked very similar and carried the same number , IIRC ............................. :wave: