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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8051 Paul Collins

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 22:27

It's that Dick Wyler geezer again on his ex Fred Neville 7R, '63, I think.


Ex Fred Neville 7R at auction

Same bike?

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#8052 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 23:19

Ex Fred Neville 7R at auction

Same bike?


I suspect the provenance on this one is accurate, Paul. My understanding is that Wyler raced Fred's latest 7R, one he had supplied to him in late '60 or early '61, probably the latter.

#8053 germanty

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:37

I suspect the provenance on this one is accurate, Paul. My understanding is that Wyler raced Fred's latest 7R, one he had supplied to him in late '60 or early '61, probably the latter.


Subtle difference in riding styles between Derek and Fred. Pic taken at Snetterton 1960/61

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#8054 Russell Burrows

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 09:29

Subtle difference in riding styles between Derek and Fred. Pic taken at Snetterton 1960/61

Good shots, germanty. Both were brilliant in my view. Had Fred got his double in the Manx, then went on to perform well in the island and some GP's in the following year (who would have bet against this?), a Gilera ride in '63 would have been odds on, wouldn't it ? Thereafter......

Can you recall the corner here?


#8055 picblanc

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 18:39

Looks like Russell Russell......... :rotfl:

#8056 exclubracer

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 19:02

Super action shots. :up:
Derek Minter with a traditional central tucked in position, almost like he is getting ready to chuck it right. Fred Neville slightly hanging off, reminiscent of a young Paul Smart?

#8057 Robin127

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 19:25

Looks like Russell Russell......... :rotfl:


:p

I think it's the entrance to the Esses on the old "long" citcuit.



#8058 Russell Burrows

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 19:51

:p

I think it's the entrance to the Esses on the old "long" citcuit.


Yes, I thought that - too acute a corner for left kink onto the Norwich straight ?


#8059 Robin127

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 14:44

Yes, I thought that - too acute a corner for left kink onto the Norwich straight ?


Yes, I don't remember the kink onto the Norwich Straight being that sharp, also I don't think it was a great spectator area either so I wouldn't have thought it was prime place to put an advertising banner.


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#8060 Rennmax

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 15:08

Does anybody know how John Ringwood and Terry Grotefeld got hold of their MZ racers, they were not up for sale in 'non-socialist' countries after all (and within the 'socialist' countries only for the chosen few). Wondering whether Alan Sheopherd was involved??

#8061 Russell Burrows

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:14

Does anybody know how John Ringwood and Terry Grotefeld got hold of their MZ racers, they were not up for sale in 'non-socialist' countries after all (and within the 'socialist' countries only for the chosen few). Wondering whether Alan Sheopherd was involved??


My recollection, Renn, is that the John Ringwood bike was formerly Derek Woodman's, one previously gifted to him by the factory for services rendered. Did Grotefeld ride one too? If so, could have been the same bike. I think it was actually owned by then sometime racer, Tony Blain. As you know, Alan Sheperd rode one, or perhaps several, much later on, presumably at least one of those being a present to him from Walter?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 12 August 2012 - 12:16.


#8062 Rennmax

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 15:35

My recollection, Renn, is that the John Ringwood bike was formerly Derek Woodman's, one previously gifted to him by the factory for services rendered. Did Grotefeld ride one too? If so, could have been the same bike. I think it was actually owned by then sometime racer, Tony Blain. As you know, Alan Sheperd rode one, or perhaps several, much later on, presumably at least one of those being a present to him from Walter?


Thanks Russ. Grotefeld raced one in '70, at least in the Island, could have been the Ringwood bike of course.

#8063 Russell Burrows

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 16:30



#8064 germanty

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 09:48


Great film Russell & nice to hear Graham Walkers voice again. Love the 'Lampost' at Henrys corner.

Talking of fairings this rider had an immaculate unpainted hand beaten alloy dolphin fairing which identified him anywhere on the track.

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#8065 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 11:35

Great film Russell & nice to hear Graham Walkers voice again. Love the 'Lampost' at Henrys corner.

Talking of fairings this rider had an immaculate unpainted hand beaten alloy dolphin fairing which identified him anywhere on the track.

Posted Image


Is it Alan Trow? Yes, lovely fairing. If it were me I think it might have slowed me down - would have hated to bend it.

I think we catch a glimpse of Aussie Alan Burt among the riders sitting on the grass. What do you think, Glenn?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 13 August 2012 - 11:39.


#8066 Herr Wankel

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 16:26

Thanks Russ. Grotefeld raced one in '70, at least in the Island, could have been the Ringwood bike of course.

When I was a boy (stop laughing you lot !) there was one raced at Darley (early 70s) by a bloke called Steve (or Stuart) Kempster. Most likely the same bike.

HW

#8067 germanty

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 17:18

Is it Alan Trow? Yes, lovely fairing. If it were me I think it might have slowed me down - would have hated to bend it.

I think we catch a glimpse of Aussie Alan Burt among the riders sitting on the grass. What do you think, Glenn?



Yes Alan Trow at the 1959 Hutchinson 100 at Silverstone. Seems hard to believe it was 53 years ago!

#8068 ian ratcliffe

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 18:04

Welshman, Selwyn Griffiths, '64, Senior Manx winner. The first G50 win on the Island.

Yes it was eccentric crankpins, 15 Thou to be precise The new crankpins were made from KE 169 steel and yes 1 base gasket brought the Port timing back as per normal, Ted Broad pressed my crank to gether and within a month Barry Ditcburn had an oversize engine !, I remember Brian Balls sponser getting my number at home and asking me how it was done.
Regards Ian R

#8069 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 18:16

Yes it was eccentric crankpins, 15 Thou to be precise The new crankpins were made from KE 169 steel and yes 1 base gasket brought the Port timing back as per normal, Ted Broad pressed my crank to gether and within a month Barry Ditcburn had an oversize engine !, I remember Brian Balls sponser getting my number at home and asking me how it was done.
Regards Ian R

Hi Ian, do you have any pics of your big Yam, or any others?

#8070 Robin127

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 01:45

Talking of fairings this rider had an immaculate unpainted hand beaten alloy dolphin fairing which identified him anywhere on the track.

Posted Image


If I remember correctly, Barry Scully had an alloy faring on a Commando he raced in the early 70's.

#8071 Paul Collins

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 18:16

If I remember correctly, Barry Scully had an alloy faring on a Commando he raced in the early 70's.


Scully was local to me, he certainly had an alloy fairing on the Trident Special which he built, I remember an article in MCN at the time he was building it which said he had used loads of modified bits and pieces from a scrap helicopter during the build and as a result the whole bike was pretty light.

He went well on the Trident until he looped it over the jump at Scarborough while leading the MCN superbike race around 1973ish, he was badly injured and I dont think he ever raced again but i'm sure he recovered ok as I remember seeing him in local club trials some years later.

#8072 Robin127

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 19:09

Scully was local to me, he certainly had an alloy fairing on the Trident Special which he built.......


Well, I got the bit about the fairing right :p


#8073 Paul Collins

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 20:53

Well, I got the bit about the fairing right :p


And I think he had a Norton before the Triumph Robin, so he might have had an alloy faring on that too.

#8074 knickerbrook

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 20:28

Anyone fancy a WWW?

Posted Image

Photo courtesy of: The Velobanjogent

Edited by knickerbrook, 19 August 2012 - 20:32.


#8075 Tonka

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 20:35

One of the Arter brothers ?



#8076 knickerbrook

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 21:11

Yes Tonka :clap: Its Tom Arter in the middle. The chap holding the molegrips is the rider (?).

#8077 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 21:56

Dave Hughes ?

#8078 knickerbrook

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 22:16

Yes Russ :clap: . In Arter's garage at the 1975 TT.
By the way, the website I found it on was:
www.velobanjogent.blogspot.co.uk
There's some interesting stuff to be found there, especialy amongst the links.

Edited by knickerbrook, 19 August 2012 - 22:23.


#8079 fil2.8

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 22:31

love that piccie , Barry :up:

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#8080 Tonka

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 23:44

What bike is it, the seat looks wrong for a G50?
Didn't Tom Arter continue using alloy wheels after Peter Williams moved on?

Found a pic of the Wheelbarrow, with a similar seat

http://www.barhammot...uk/gallery.html

Looks like the bike is covered in chicken shit !


Edited by Tonka, 19 August 2012 - 23:49.


#8081 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:39

What bike is it, the seat looks wrong for a G50?
Didn't Tom Arter continue using alloy wheels after Peter Williams moved on?

Found a pic of the Wheelbarrow, with a similar seat

http://www.barhammot...uk/gallery.html

Looks like the bike is covered in chicken shit !


Yes, looks like Tom's G50 minus the mag wheels. Dave won the Senior Manx on a wire wheeled version a few years earlier.


#8082 germanty

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:16

Yes Tonka :clap: Its Tom Arter in the middle. The chap holding the molegrips is the rider (?).


Posted Image

I went to see young Tom Arter (son) a couple of years ago at their Barham garage on behalf of PW.

They still had the bike then, not sure if they still have.

#8083 GD66

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:40

Hughesy finished 13th in 1975, and Tom Herron rode another Arter G50 into 21st place. The connection being Peter Williams, with Herron married to Peter's sister Andrea.

Tom had three G50s entered another year, when Hughesy and both Peter and John Williams all turned out on his bikes.

I think the other bloke in the pic is Manx Norton rider Chris Boyce.

Edited by GD66, 20 August 2012 - 08:56.


#8084 ian ratcliffe

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 15:14

Yes it was eccentric crankpins, 15 Thou to be precise The new crankpins were made from KE 169 steel and yes 1 base gasket brought the Port timing back as per normal, Ted Broad pressed my crank to gether and within a month Barry Ditcburn had an oversize engine !, I remember Brian Balls sponser getting my number at home and asking me how it was done.
Regards Ian R

No sorry, all my memorbelia is in my head, Regards Ian R.

#8085 ian ratcliffe

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 15:15

Hughesy finished 13th in 1975, and Tom Herron rode another Arter G50 into 21st place. The connection being Peter Williams, with Herron married to Peter's sister Andrea.

Tom had three G50s entered another year, when Hughesy and both Peter and John Williams all turned out on his bikes.

I think the other bloke in the pic is Manx Norton rider Chris Boyce.



#8086 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 18:10

No sorry, all my memorbelia is in my head, Regards Ian R.

Ah, like most of us then. Do keep in touch. I'm sure lots out there remember you.

#8087 Russell Burrows

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 20:28

Just in case this has not been seen. Earlier Assen races should come up too:
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=fvwrel

#8088 fil2.8

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 21:29

Thanks , Russ , haven't seen that before :up: , some other great Assen clips there also

#8089 Richard Wood

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:02

Just in case this has not been seen. Earlier Assen races should come up too:
http://www.youtube.c...;feature=fvwrel

Thanks for this Russ, as you know I'm always on the look out for film footage and photographs of John Hartle.
It always amazes me the vast number of spectators in attendance in those days. Seems more so than of todays MGP's.
All the best
R


#8090 drumwrecker

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:11

Thanks for this Russ, as you know I'm always on the look out for film footage and photographs of John Hartle.
It always amazes me the vast number of spectators in attendance in those days. Seems more so than of todays MGP's.
All the best
R


Also the crowd is much closer to the track.
Great view at a risk.

#8091 Richard Wood

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:07

Also the crowd is much closer to the track.
Great view at a risk.

Absolubtly. Safety not quite at the forefront in those days but more exciting I should imagine for all concerned.
R

#8092 germanty

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:38

Absolubtly. Safety not quite at the forefront in those days but more exciting I should imagine for all concerned.
R


Posted Image

No crowds here at Kepple Gate during the 1959 Junior TT.

Apparently Mac rubbed his fairing away both sides.


#8093 Richard Wood

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:42

Posted Image

No crowds here at Kepple Gate during the 1959 Junior TT.

Apparently Mac rubbed his fairing away both sides.

Good photo. I'm not surprised Bob Mac's fairing was worn away when you look at the bulbous width of those Peel fairings.
Shows how hard they were trying though!
R

#8094 Russell Burrows

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:44

No crowds here at Kepple Gate during the 1959 Junior TT.

Apparently Mac rubbed his fairing away both sides.


Superb shot.

#8095 GD66

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 06:42

And he's made up the 10 sec deficit to catch Hartle's MV :eek: May explain why the 7R was a dnf...

#8096 exclubracer

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:13

Let's see if Russell can identify this one ;) Seen at Tonfanau on Sunday, was pretty rapid as well :up:

Posted Image

Put a few pics on the 'tiddler' thread as well.

Edited by exclubracer, 29 August 2012 - 16:14.


#8097 Russell Burrows

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:58

Let's see if Russell can identify this one ;) Seen at Tonfanau on Sunday, was pretty rapid as well :up:
Put a few pics on the 'tiddler' thread as well.


An early sixties frame of the type used by the long stroke wet clutch bikes. This motor then is either later or the dry clutch is a mod. Weirdly offset carb intake too.
Thanks for whacking it up Mick. I think I might have photographed this one a couple of years ago at Brands? Nope turns out I didn't.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 30 August 2012 - 00:30.


#8098 exclubracer

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 17:14

An early sixties frame of the type used by the long stroke wet clutch bikes. This motor is either later or the dry clutch is a mod. Weirdly offset carb intake too.
Thanks for whacking it up Mick.

Yes Russell, I thought the carb looked a bit odd as well. The rider was Keith Powell, I was informed by someone far more knowledgeable than myself that the dry clutch was a later addition. It sounded and went very well!

#8099 larryd

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 17:32

Yes Russell, I thought the carb looked a bit odd as well. The rider was Keith Powell, I was informed by someone far more knowledgeable than myself that the dry clutch was a later addition. It sounded and went very well!


Going by the offset Monobloc carb, I suspect this is set up to the old TTF3 spec?

Memory tells me that this frame had all the torsional rigidity of a damp bus ticket . . . . . . . .

Edited by larryd, 29 August 2012 - 17:34.


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#8100 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:39

Good shot, aye.
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