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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8201 billlawrence

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 13:53

Joe with his sleeves rolled up in action.

http://www.flickr.co...cle-photography


I well remember Joe,s yellow markers around the TT course a great help wonder if they are still there ? Bill Lawrence

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#8202 knickerbrook

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 15:08

The yellow marks were still there in 1976 when I was learning the course!
I seem to remember a story about Joe coming into the pits during one MGP, with a twig embedded in his arm (where he got a bit too close to one of the hedges!). Story goes that he told his crew "never mind, just snap it off" and off he went again!

#8203 Russell Burrows

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 16:38

Fluebrush !!!

In Scandinavia, unless I'm very much mistaken (Copyright Murray Walker !)

Yes, Fluebrush it is. I've yet to see a picture of Peter on a Brit single with a fairing. I wonder what that's all about? I don't know where or when nor who claims copyright since it wasn't indicated and the photo's widely dispersed across the interweb, Larry.

#8204 omobono

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 21:15

Could that be Mr & Mrs Tickle of Manx T5 fame?

#8205 Russell Burrows

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 21:21

Could that be Mr & Mrs Tickle of Manx T5 fame?


Yes, Ombono, well done. John and Cathy (?), 1960, somewhere in France by the look of it. I believe John died a few years back. Wasn't Godfrey Nash connected - sponsored rider and/or employee even before the T5 days?

#8206 Robin127

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 13:00

......Godfrey Nash.....


There's a name I haven't heard in years, a man who holds a unique record.


#8207 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 13:12

There's a name I haven't heard in years, a man who holds a unique record.


Yes, the last GP winner on Manx Norton, or any other single. As much as we might have loved the whole set up back then, it's a pretty good indicator of the then parlous state of racing; eight/nine year old bikes shouldn't have been winning GP's, should they?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 19 October 2012 - 13:31.


#8208 GD66

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:39

Before the guns swoop, looking forward to this one. By the hefty spine downtube and Earles forks, I'd say that's the Sprayson-built Duke Norton : maybe Bob Brown aboard, I know he rode Duke's Velo for a while. Is that Jim Redman pushing #68 when his helmet was pale blue, or even Kavanagh ? Looks 1959-ish. Vague enough for ya ? :drunk:

#8209 Rennmax

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:00

#74 Hocking, John Hempleman far left on the front row? Jack Findlay in the background

#8210 Russell Burrows

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:19

Yes, definitely Brown on the Reynolds framed Manx, with Hocking alongside. The source (I suspect a few times removed) says 68 is Kavanagh. It does look like him but was he still bashing Manxes around in '59? And why no fairing on a hotshots bike when it's clearly very wet. I was thinking Hempleman, Renn, but do I spy part of a kangaroo on his lid? Could it be Ron Miles? 69 does look very much like Findlay. Are we agreed it's Saltzburg's Liefering ?

#8211 Rennmax

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:56

Yes, definitely Brown on the Reynolds framed Manx, with Hocking alongside. The source (I suspect a few times removed) says 68 is Kavanagh. It does look like him but was he still bashing Manxes around in '59? And why no fairing on a hotshots bike when it's clearly very wet. I was thinking Hempleman, Renn, but do I spy part of a kangaroo on his lid? Could it be Ron Miles? 69 does look very much like Findlay. Are we agreed it's Saltzburg's Liefering ?


Hi Russ, Ken was back on a 125 Ducati and a 500 Manx after his car exploits in 58.

Edited by Rennmax, 29 October 2012 - 12:30.


#8212 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:06

Hi Russ, Ken was back on a 125 Ducati and a 500 Manx after his car exploits in 58.


Thanks, Renn. How slippery does that wet concrete look :eek:

#8213 Russell Burrows

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 18:54

Received a message from Lutonboy today confirming my fifty year old recollection - previously recounted on here, perhaps more than once - of him winning at Brands on a bog standard looking, unfaired, borrowed 7R. He says he liked the bike so much he bought it.

#8214 Rennmax

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 21:45

Alberto Pagani watching Guiseppe Pattoni working on his creation?

#8215 larryd

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 21:56

Alberto Pagani watching Guiseppe Pattoni working on his creation?


Renn, you are a star !!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Sorry to butt in, Russ, but it needed saying !!


#8216 Rennmax

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:20

Thanks Larry :blush:

A lot of interesting stuff regarding Paton bikes here, even if your French, like mine, is very limited

http://www.pit-lane....s-parlons-paton

#8217 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:30

Yes gents, Alberto in what must be about '65? The Macchi though seems not to have a triangular fitted to the front ? Could it be earlier? I had no real idea on the ID of the other bloke, Renn  ;)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 03 November 2012 - 09:31.


#8218 Rennmax

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:39

Yes gents, Alberto in what must be about '65? The Macchi though seems not to have a triangular fitted to the front ? Could it be earlier? I had no real idea on the ID of the other bloke, Renn ;)


I guess it's 64 Russ, the year Alberto rode a 250 Paton, finishing 3rd in the Lightweight TT

#8219 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:11

I guess it's 64 Russ, the year Alberto rode a 250 Paton, finishing 3rd in the Lightweight TT


Yes Renn, thanks. Alberto's leathers showing signs of having had the TT number attached ?

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#8220 Russell Burrows

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:17

Hi Graham. Peter makes a brief appearance in this one. Apologies if it's been up previously:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=eULOJhB2lZA

Edited by Russell Burrows, 04 November 2012 - 22:03.


#8221 Rennmax

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:19

Hi Graham. Peter makes a brief appearance in this one. Apologies if it's been up previously:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=eULOJhB2lZA


Some additional info (in German) and pics on their site

http://www.mcw-motor....de/die-rennen/

#8222 graham houlihan

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:49

Hi Graham. Peter makes a brief appearance in this one. Apologies if it's been up previously:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=eULOJhB2lZA


Hi Russ, Brilliant film and no hadn't seen it before. I'm too young to have seen it first hand, so good to know that the world wasn't actually in black and white back then !



#8223 germanty

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 13:00

Hi Graham. Peter makes a brief appearance in this one. Apologies if it's been up previously:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=eULOJhB2lZA


Posted Image

Clearly this is at Ballaugh but any ideas who this rider is?

#8224 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 15:12

Clearly this is at Ballaugh but any ideas who this rider is?


Ed LaBelle?


#8225 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 15:14

Pipped on the line, Renn ;)

#8226 Rennmax

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 15:17

Pipped on the line, Renn ;)


Yep Russ :wave: , do you know more about him?

#8227 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 15:25

Yep Russ :wave: , do you know more about him?


No Renn, I'm going to fess up and explain that I've previuosly not heard of him. I did what I rarely if ever do : Googled like mad - honest. He looks to have a then rare Bell crash hat (putting him in the frame as a Yank, possibly), non European looking googles and leathers that look a bit non standard too; the Be'em looks late fifties and I think the 59 Senior was run in some of the worst conditions ever? Up popped Ed on the data base. Did you do the same? Then again it might not be him :blush:

Thanks for putting it up, germanty, it's another brilliant shot.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 November 2012 - 19:46.


#8228 Rennmax

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 15:35

No Renn, I'm going to fess us and explain that I've previuosly not heard of him. I did what I rarely if ever do : Googled like mad based on the assumption that he looks to have a then rare Bell crash hat (putting him in the frame as a Yank, possibly), non European googles and leathers that look a bit non standard too. The Be'em looks late fifties and I think the 59 Senior was run in some of the worst conditions ever? Up popped Ed on the data base. Did you do the same? Then again it might not be him :blush:

Thanks for putting it up, germanty, it's another brilliant shot.


I looked up the iomtt.com site for some 'inspiration'.

http://www.iomtt.com...mp;ride_id=1888

Allegedly that's his bike again, though with the original shocks in the Earles forks

http://www.bmbikes.c.....0IOM 1959.jpg

Edited by Rennmax, 06 November 2012 - 15:52.


#8229 larryd

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 16:30

I looked up the iomtt.com site for some 'inspiration'.

http://www.iomtt.com...mp;ride_id=1888

Allegedly that's his bike again, though with the original shocks in the Earles forks

http://www.bmbikes.c.....0IOM 1959.jpg


Ed is/was (?) a Canadian, who only came to the TT once, in 1959.

Rode the RS in the Senior & the "one-off" Formula One races, as well as a Norton in the Junior.

He re-visited the Island in, I think, 1986 - that was the last year that I rode the Senior, and I met him in the paddock - if I remember correctly, he was riding a BM in the Parade Lap, and was buying Avgas in the water tank that passed for a fuel source at the bottom of the old paddock.

He was quite surprised that I knew all about his IOM racing history.

Nice man.


#8230 graham houlihan

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 19:39

Ed is/was (?) a Canadian, who only came to the TT once, in 1959.

Rode the RS in the Senior & the "one-off" Formula One races, as well as a Norton in the Junior.

He re-visited the Island in, I think, 1986 - that was the last year that I rode the Senior, and I met him in the paddock - if I remember correctly, he was riding a BM in the Parade Lap, and was buying Avgas in the water tank that passed for a fuel source at the bottom of the old paddock.

He was quite surprised that I knew all about his IOM racing history.

Nice man.


I thought Ed was an American, not Canadian, although he was a Canadian champion (on the BMW), he was usually entered with a US licence. For many years ran a machine/repair shop in Philadelphia. He scored a couple of world championship points when rode in the GPs held at Daytona in the '60s and did quite a bit of drag racing as well.

He passed away in January 2010

edit ; he was American, born in Lansdowne, PE, 1928

Edited by graham houlihan, 06 November 2012 - 19:49.


#8231 larryd

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:54

I thought Ed was an American, not Canadian, although he was a Canadian champion (on the BMW), he was usually entered with a US licence. For many years ran a machine/repair shop in Philadelphia. He scored a couple of world championship points when rode in the GPs held at Daytona in the '60s and did quite a bit of drag racing as well.

He passed away in January 2010

edit ; he was American, born in Lansdowne, PE, 1928


:blush: Oooops - thanks Graham !!

Still a nice man - even if a Yank . . . . . . . . !!


#8232 Rennmax

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 20:56

Reminds me of Oscar Liebman, who built himself a Rennsport racer

http://www.beemergar...ents/renns4.pdf

#8233 germanty

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:56

No Renn, I'm going to fess up and explain that I've previuosly not heard of him. I did what I rarely if ever do : Googled like mad - honest. He looks to have a then rare Bell crash hat (putting him in the frame as a Yank, possibly), non European looking googles and leathers that look a bit non standard too; the Be'em looks late fifties and I think the 59 Senior was run in some of the worst conditions ever? Up popped Ed on the data base. Did you do the same? Then again it might not be him :blush:

Thanks for putting it up, germanty, it's another brilliant shot.


Yes good call chaps. Ed LaBelle shown (on rear of the picture) to have finished 20th in the 1959 Senior TT and it states he is American.

I was there for this race and I remember it was very wet with Surtees at the finish looking like he had been swimming in his leathers & stating he never wanted to ride in another race like that ever again. Also I felt sorry for Roy Ingram who was pushing in along the Glencrutchery Road for a 'finish' and we couldnt of course help.

A few subtle differences seen here on a nicely turned out BM racer at a CRMC classic meeting at Snetterton in 2012.

Posted Image

Edited by germanty, 07 November 2012 - 09:10.


#8234 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 18:35

This is good:
http://www.ina.fr/vi...-france.fr.html

#8235 knickerbrook

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 17:22

Aah yes - roughing-up the triangulars with the rasp! Also a nice shot of Steenson hurling his Seeley around.
BUT most of all - the absolutely gorgeous Dane Rowe :p !

#8236 fil2.8

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 17:52

BUT most of all - the absolutely gorgeous Dane Rowe :p !



Now , now , Barry :eek: , think you ought to have a cold wash before you suffer heart palpitations :lol: :wave:


#8237 knickerbrook

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 18:01

Hi Phil :wave:

:love: indeed!!

#8238 fil2.8

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 23:31

with Renzo , # 68 :up:

#8239 GD66

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 23:52

Looks like him and Gilberto use the same signwriter. And that Joe's finally found the limit on that pesky left-hander....

Presumably that same Liefering meeting in 1966 : where did you unearth these pics, Russell ?

Edited by GD66, 15 November 2012 - 19:48.


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#8240 Rennmax

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:45

[quote name='Russell Burrows' post='6022249' date='Nov 14 2012, 23:43']Not a bad shot, aye.

#67 Gilberto Milani, #88 Joe Dunphy

There are hundreds of pics of these races here

http://www.technisch.../articleid/2214

but most of the time, their server is so slow that the access is interrupted

Edited by Rennmax, 18 November 2012 - 17:47.


#8241 johnyC

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 15:12

Reminds me of Oscar Liebman, who built himself a Rennsport racer

http://www.beemergar...ents/renns4.pdf


Renn, here's another one, which I saw at pre-tt 2006. I don't know any more about it, perhaps Larry could help?

Posted Image

#8242 Russell Burrows

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 19:45

#67 Gilberto Milani, #88 Joe Dunphy

There are hundreds of pics of these races here

http://www.technisch.../articleid/2214

but most of the time, their server is so slow that the access is interrupted


Ah, Renn, all those potential WWW's down the gurgler...... I'm on holiday in Vienna at the moment and yesterday I went to the museum. They were very obliging - letting me into their archive an all - but apparently other than those put up already, they hold only a small amount of lesser quality negatives. I had hoped they might have a whole swag of prints stashed away. The Archivist said they have had enquiries from all over on the Saltzburg photos with some offering to name riders and bikes ! The same person confirmed the Museum are happy to allow downloading of these photos for non commercial purposes.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 15 November 2012 - 21:09.


#8243 larryd

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 23:30

Renn, here's another one, which I saw at pre-tt 2006. I don't know any more about it, perhaps Larry could help?

Posted Image


Hans Fischer, Johnny - turned up out of the blue at Billown that year.

Didn't talk to people - answered no questions about the bike.

Was interested enough in my ex-Hans Otto Butenuth 500 shortstroke pushrod bike though - you might have seen it too - No 47.

I asked Ralf Engelhardt about him - "not a nice man".

Apparently it was not a genuine RS54 Rennsport, although shown as such in the programme. Ralf said that 90% was constructed from scratch - the boy must have been a millionaire!

Wasn't quick - he did 3min 42s, and I was getting round in 3m 28s. I finished 11th in the Support Race, while Hans ended up 17th, a lap down.

He came back the next year, and bugger me he's doing 3m23s in practice, qualifying 2 rows ahead of me on the Support grid!

When he had gearbox trouble last practice, he discovered that I had the necessary special tools for stripping the box, and suddenly he was all chat!! I lent them to him . . . .

Got a good start, did him up the inside into Cross Four Ways and got the head down. Too far down - slid off at Castletown Corner Lap 1 and kicked a carb off. Spectated.

:blush: :blush: :blush:

A girl called Kay Streets gave him hell's trouble all race on a 350 Goldie (!) - he disappeared last lap, and a friend of mine spectating at Stadium told me it went BANG in a big way as he went through the corner.

I had thought he sounded to be over-revving it . . . . .

He never came back


#8244 Richard Wood

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:09

#67 Gilberto Milani, #88 Joe Dunphy

There are hundreds of pics of these races here

http://www.technisch.../articleid/2214

but most of the time, their server is so slow that the access is interrupted

Thanks for posting this link. I've spent hours already and found many interesting previously unseen (by me) photos of John Hartle.
All the best
R

#8245 Rennmax

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:38

Ah, Renn, all those potential WWW's down the gurgler...... I'm on holiday in Vienna at the moment and yesterday I went to the museum. They were very obliging - letting me into their archive an all - but apparently other than those put up already, they hold only a small amount of lesser quality negatives. I had hoped they might have a whole swag of prints stashed away. The Archivist said they have had enquiries from all over on the Saltzburg photos with some offering to name riders and bikes ! The same person confirmed the Museum are happy to allow downloading of these photos for non commercial purposes.


The access seems to have improved Russ, have you turned the switches in Vienna :wave:

or are you revamping the third man



;)

Edited by Rennmax, 16 November 2012 - 08:38.


#8246 Rennmax

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:17

Hans Fischer, Johnny - turned up out of the blue at Billown that year.


It's him Larry?

Posted Image

#8247 larryd

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:17

It's him Larry?

Posted Image


That's him, Renn!

Cheerful-looking soul, isn't he?

:)


#8248 Rennmax

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:36

That's him, Renn!

Cheerful-looking soul, isn't he?

:)


I know him Larry, he is a former BMW and now Yamaha dealer. I got to know him when I purchased some parts for a Brembo caliper (the type which were also used by BMW in the early eighties) for my Laverda at his shop. It was obviously a good occassion for him to start a rant about Italian bikes.... I think he had a bad off at Schotten in 2011, have nothing heard of him since then
He bought the Rennsport engine from Klaus Enders and made the rest including frame by himself, some craftmanship which has to be respected nevertheless.
I also remember him campaigning a Yamaha TD 1 C in the sixties.

Edited by Rennmax, 16 November 2012 - 10:44.


#8249 johnyC

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:47

Cheerful-looking soul, isn't he?


Larry, here's the much more cheerful team Streets from Billown '06:

Posted Image

ps. I posted pic's of yourself from 06 already in another thread, but here's one from 2004, the last picture I took as a civilian (Saturday 29th May) as I was press-ganged into the orange bib brigade by the charming Anthea Matthewman at Ballabeg:

Posted Image

Edited by johnyC, 16 November 2012 - 13:59.


#8250 larryd

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:28

Larry, here's the much more cheerful team Streets from Billown '06:

Posted Image

ps. I posted pic's of yourself from 06 already in another thread, but here's one from 2004, the last picture I took as a civilian (Saturday 29th May) as I was press-ganged into the orange bib brigade by the charming Anthea Matthewman at Ballabeg:

Posted Image


Yep - Team Streets in the Billown paddock 2004 (not 2006, Johnny) - you must have been standing with your back to our tent when you took that!

Kay's Mum and Dad (David), and 65 is David's 350 Goldie. The green 500 in the middle is David's G50 Metisse.

Seated in the foreground left is Jeffrey Straughan, Kay's boyfriend/partner, and 64 is his 350 Goldie.

In the very foreground, with the red frame, is Kay's 350 Goldie which carried No 63.

Nice people.

By the way, Johnny, thanks for the Ballabeg Hairpin shot - I've obviously run in far too deep on the brakes!!

I haven't seen the 2006 pics you mention as being on another thread.

Having now retired, I'm all for ego trips - can you please tell me where to find them?

Ta!

Edited by larryd, 16 November 2012 - 21:30.