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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8451 larryd

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:22

Peter Williams of course - followed by Charlie Sanby, dont know who's behind him, but looks to me like Derek Chatterton bringing up the rear (although it could be Ago?).


Alan Shepherd 3rd? - and yes, I think Ago at the rear!

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#8452 GD66

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:52

Yep, Ago in fourth. Hard to tell with the camera shake, might be Rex Butcher in 3rd.

#8453 knickerbrook

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:34

I was fancying Griff Jenkins for the third man, but think the year might be a bit late for him?

Edited by knickerbrook, 06 January 2013 - 01:38.


#8454 RC162

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:42

Yes, Chaps, Croxford, Uphill, Hailwood and Redfern at what must be Gerrards '69. If I designed an imaginary circuit consisting of bits of the World's race tracks, Gerrards would definitely be included, the haripin too, I think; Paddock at Brands; the Norwich straight; the Cork Screw at Laguna and erm, the entire Nurburgring.


I would add the original Russell's from Snetterton.


#8455 GD66

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:29

Phillip Island's Lukey Heights.... :eek:

#8456 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:36

I too was thinking Butcher or Jenkins, who I think was just about still racing.

#8457 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:07

Alan Shepherd 3rd? - and yes, I think Ago at the rear!


I think Alan had retired by then, Larry ? In searching for confirmation I found this :
http://www.motorcycl...-walter-kaaden/

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 January 2013 - 11:20.


#8458 Rennmax

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:24

I think Alan had retired by then, Larry ? In searching for confirmation I found this :
http://www.motorcycl...-walter-kaaden/


Alan had to retire after being seriously injured while testing a Honda (a six cylinder IIRC) in Japan in October '64

#8459 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:55

Alan had to retire after being seriously injured while testing a Honda (a six cylinder IIRC) in Japan in October '64


Thanks, Renn. My memory is telling me Alan was offered a test ride with MV - perhaps the year before, or early in '64 - but this didn't go well as, much to the displeasure of the Count, he reved the thing too hard, bending valves and stuff. Alan then went home, never to hear from them again. I think I raised this a few years back and it was met with complete silence. I've just googled it again and can find nothing. I do hope I'm not traducing Alan who, by all accounts was an all round nice guy, as well as a super talented racer. Doe nobody else recall this episode?

This is among the many questions I should have raised with Terry Shepperd.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 January 2013 - 13:00.


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#8460 GD66

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:58

[quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Jan 6 2013, 04:55' post='6088573 Doe nobody else recall this episode?
This is among the many questions I should have raised with Terry Shepperd.
[/quote]

That would have been a good idea, mate.
I recall that Russell, but I'm struggling to come up with it in print. From my memory, Mike had put in a word on Alan's behalf, the test was at Monza, and Shep missed a shift in front of the pits and jangled the valves, incredibly poor timing as his riding at that stage was right on the mark.
I'd say his ride in the 350 Ulster GP in 1960 would have done him no harm in gaining MV's attention either.

#8461 Robin127

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:14

I would add the original Russell's from Snetterton.


Definately but only with the run from the exit of the Bombhole and Coram preceding it.


#8462 Classicpics

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:31

Yes, they've stuffed it good and proper with those effing chicanes.

Minter chasing a second placed Lewis Young in your shot, John. Looks like Dennis Ainsworth in sixth spot. Must be '63? Jim Cripps behind Minter?


Brian Denehy 37
As for the rest you are spot on Russell

#8463 Classicpics

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:40

Alan had to retire after being seriously injured while testing a Honda (a six cylinder IIRC) in Japan in October '64

Taken from the Mallory Park souvenir book of motor cycle racing 1964.

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I'm sure Alan never raced again.

#8464 serafini

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:53

[quote name='GD66' post='6088608' date='Jan 6 2013, 14:58'][quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Jan 6 2013, 04:55' post='6088573 Doe nobody else recall this episode?
This is among the many questions I should have raised with Terry Shepperd.


That would have been a good idea, mate.
I recall that Russell, but I'm struggling to come up with it in print. From my memory, Mike had put in a word on Alan's behalf, the test was at Monza, and Shep missed a shift in front of the pits and jangled the valves, incredibly poor timing as his riding at that stage was right on the mark.
I'd say his ride in the 350 Ulster GP in 1960 would have done him no harm in gaining MV's attention either.[/quote]
Alan Shepherd was runner-up to MV team mate Grassetti at both Cesenatico and Riccione early in the 1963 season but, with Hailwood deciding not to race cars full time, MV did not need Shepherd and effectively sacked him by claiming that he had bent valves. He was entered in the Senior TT on an MV but of course it never appeared.

#8465 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:24

Alan Shepherd was runner-up to MV team mate Grassetti at both Cesenatico and Riccione early in the 1963 season but, with Hailwood deciding not to race cars full time, MV did not need Shepherd and effectively sacked him by claiming that he had bent valves. He was entered in the Senior TT on an MV but of course it never appeared.


Interesting, thanks, Serafini.

#8466 germanty

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:58

Its nice to see someone Remembering Dave Chadwick Does anyone know where the cup is now. That mike put up in Daves memory As i was the first racer to Win it at Oulton Park. Den Ainsworth


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Dennis at Oulton Park having just won the Dave Chadwick Trophy. We still cant place it - its in someones trophy cabinet somewhere

#8467 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:08

Dennis at Oulton Park having just won the Dave Chadwick Trophy. We still cant place it - its in someones trophy cabinet somewhere


Good stuff, germanty. Do we know the year?


#8468 exracerden

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 20:31

[quote name='germanty' date='Jan 7 2013, 12:58' post='6089176']
Posted Image

Dennis at Oulton Park having just won the Dave Chadwick Trophy. We still cant place it - its in someones trophy cabinet somewhere
[/
Hi Russell The Date is 1962 Regards Den

#8469 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 22:30

Thanks, Dennis. Excellent shot. I suspect you well remember the occasion ?

#8470 Rennmax

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:05

Does anybody know why Hailwood did his record bid at Daytona running clockwise against the normal direction in 64 ? Thanks

#8471 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:33

Anyone wanna have a go at wwwing this one?
Posted Image

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 11:34.


#8472 GD66

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:43

Oran Park, probably around 1971. #11 is an A1-R, so could be Alan Osborne. Dick Reid on #6 maybe. #63 Ron Toombs in the Green Slime leathers. #53 may well be Jack Saunders, but #87 is definitely Eric Debenham on the Corish Vincent.

Still scratching my head over Renn's question about the record attempt being clockwise...

Posted Image

Pic from Frank Melling's MotorcycleUSA.com column

Edited by GD66, 09 January 2013 - 03:54.


#8473 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:27

Oran Park, probably around 1971. #11 is an A1-R, so could be Alan Osborne. Dick Reid on #6 maybe. #63 Ron Toombs in the Green Slime leathers. #53 may well be Jack Saunders, but #87 is definitely Eric Debenham on the Corish Vincent.

Still scratching my head over Renn's question about the record attempt being clockwise...

Me too.....Unless it was something to do with wind direction ? Fear of the MV blowing up on the racing line (unlikely since its sort of an oval)? The FIM insisting on a clockwise attempt for some half arsed reason?

Yes, Oran Park but in late '69. Correct on Tombsie and Debenham but wayward on the rest :eek:

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 13:50.


#8474 GD66

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:54

Hmmm...the polesitter has a Carruthers-patterned helmet, and he did use #6 in Aussie in his years on the 250 four, but I don't recall him racing a Yamaha here...

Come on Renn, it hurts.... :drunk:

#8475 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:13

It is Kel. Almost certainly the first time he raced a TR/TD Yam, Glenn. I was there to see this. I can't recall though if he bested Tombsie. He had returned home as the newly crowned 250 World Champ and there was a little reception for him at the airport. He later came into Bennett Honda to see his mate and my boss, Colin Evans. I remember asking him if he would be having a ride before returning and he seemed not to know, so it was probably all hastily arranged. 11 is Jolly Jack Ahearn, 84 Geoff Lucas (previous pilot of my Aermacchi ) and I think the bloke with the moto cross bike alongside Debbo, might be Brian Clarkson.

The bloke standing behind Kel looks a more than a bit like Keo Maddern, who I think had one of the first TD/Rs. I wonder if he gave up his ride in favour of Carruthers?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 14:18.


#8476 GD66

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:19

Good one ! Yeah I think that is Kel's dad behind the bike. Wouldn't have picked Findlay in a fit, though.

Pretty fair-sized crowd on the hill at Energol in the background.

#8477 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:30

Good one ! Yeah I think that is Kel's dad behind the bike. Wouldn't have picked Findlay in a fit, though.

Pretty fair-sized crowd on the hill at Energol in the background.


It's not a bad crowd; I recall a fair amount of publicity around his homecoming. Dad Jack was a little portly bloke around this time, Glenn. Looks more like Maddern to me. Jack later did some work on my Macchi motor at his Gladeville home. He produced what I remenber as a bent/broken valve from a Macchi which he said had cost Kel points at Monza.


#8478 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:51

Posted Image

Glenn, Lucas is on Mark Walker's Triumph based special, raced in an earlier guise by Barry Angus. 93 is Sid Lawrence, 38 Bill Dillow, and the guy on the Yam next to Lawrence looks like South Australian, Peter Richards.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 15:33.


#8479 Rennmax

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 15:36

Come on Renn, it hurts.... :drunk:


It's a real question Glenn, regretfully I don't have the answer...

Edited by Rennmax, 08 January 2013 - 15:41.


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#8480 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:15

We may as well have the full set:
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 17:19.


#8481 GD66

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 22:39

Great set of pics, Russell, did you take them ? Mark Walker went on to make all sorts of weird and amazing creations, btw.

Edited by GD66, 08 January 2013 - 23:01.


#8482 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 22:51

Great set of pics, Russell, did you take them ? Mark Walker went on top make all sorts of weird and amazing creations, btw.


Pleased you enjoyed them, Glenn. No, they're not mine, they came via Toombsie's son, Warren, who kindly agreed to let me post them as a www.

Yes, found some of the info on Walker :up:

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 23:08.


#8483 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 23:24

Some of you, especially you dudes with a copy of Don Cox's book might have already seen some of these lovely shots of the late Jack Saunder's career in Europe. Good stuff for the rest of us though:
http://velobanjogent.blogspot.co.uk/

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 January 2013 - 23:43.


#8484 billlawrence

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:07

Does anybody know why Hailwood did his record bid at Daytona running clockwise against the normal direction in 64 ? Thanks


HI Ren I can recall Charlie Rous who was helping on the day saying that Mike started clockwise as most circuits run clockwise it was the natural thing to do .Regarding the perfect circuit the old bottom bend at brands is a must I can still see Chris Vincent riding down the hill from druids what a sight .
Regards Bill Lawrence

#8485 GD66

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:59

Along these lines, Bill....

Posted Image

OK, it's in the wet, and on a Beemer...

Pic has been up before, I think it may well be from our master of monochrome, Classicpics.

Edited by GD66, 09 January 2013 - 04:00.


#8486 billlawrence

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:17

Along these lines, Bill....

Posted Image

OK, it's in the wet, and on a Beemer...

Pic has been up before, I think it may well be from our master of monochrome, Classicpics.


HO Yes he used to smoke the back wheel right around the bend just great .
Bill

#8487 Rennmax

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:21

HI Ren I can recall Charlie Rous who was helping on the day saying that Mike started clockwise as most circuits run clockwise it was the natural thing to do .
Regards Bill Lawrence


Thanks Bill, simple explantions are often the correct ones, though us mere mortals would possibly prefer to blast around a long sweeping lefthander

#8488 GD66

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:51

Thanks Bill, simple explantions are often the correct ones, though us mere mortals would possibly prefer to blast around a long sweeping lefthander


Yep, same here Renn, plus I was calculating with Daytona being a tri-oval whether the prevailing wind at start time had the front straight sheltered plus a tail wind down the back if you ran clockwise etc etc, should have known SMBH would never have fussed over minutiae like that !
Have slipped a pic from the day into post #8482.


#8489 billlawrence

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:46

Yep, same here Renn, plus I was calculating with Daytona being a tri-oval whether the prevailing wind at start time had the front straight sheltered plus a tail wind down the back if you ran clockwise etc etc, should have known SMBH would never have fussed over minutiae like that !
Have slipped a pic from the day into post #8482.


HI Glen quite right regarding SMBH also as he was riding a 500 and was after Bob Mac,s hour record achieved on a 350 he wouldnt be too botherd about a tail wind .No disrespect to the all time wonderful great SMBH intended as I remember there was a bit of a fuss at the time .
Regards Bill

#8490 billlawrence

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:46

Yep, same here Renn, plus I was calculating with Daytona being a tri-oval whether the prevailing wind at start time had the front straight sheltered plus a tail wind down the back if you ran clockwise etc etc, should have known SMBH would never have fussed over minutiae like that !
Have slipped a pic from the day into post #8482.


HI Glen quite right regarding SMBH also as he was riding a 500 and was after Bob Mac,s hour record achieved on a 350 he wouldnt be too botherd about a tail wind .No disrespect to the all time wonderful great SMBH intended as I remember there was a bit of a fuss at the time .
Regards Bill

#8491 GD66

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:26

Cheers Bill, yes I think I recall Mac chose a 350 as when he did the record attempt it was on the banked bowl of Monza and he could hold it flat out on the bumpy surface, whereas the 500 needed the throttle rolled on and off and would have been too much of a handful. Must have been quite daunting as Mac was no sissy !!

#8492 bella

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:02

Yep, same here Renn, plus I was calculating with Daytona being a tri-oval whether the prevailing wind at start time had the front straight sheltered plus a tail wind down the back if you ran clockwise etc etc, should have known SMBH would never have fussed over minutiae like that !
Have slipped a pic from the day into post #8482.


Old Stan might have had something to do with it, a very forceful character, and if he'd made his mind up that was it.
I've read some good stuff about the old boy, apparently he was in Cannes and picked up this young girl of about 19 dressed in only a bikini who thought Stan was a film director, anyway Stan drove her all the way from there to a race meeting where she paraded up and down pit lane with Mike and the boys trying unsuccessfully to "nick " her.

#8493 germanty

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 17:11

HI Ren I can recall Charlie Rous who was helping on the day saying that Mike started clockwise as most circuits run clockwise it was the natural thing to do .Regarding the perfect circuit the old bottom bend at brands is a must I can still see Chris Vincent riding down the hill from druids what a sight .
Regards Bill Lawrence



Posted Image

Your lucky Bill, my only pic of CV is of his approach to that very same bend. Enjoy

#8494 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 17:28

Your lucky Bill, my only pic of CV is of his approach to that very same bend. Enjoy


Another goodie, germanty. Do you know who's in the chair?


#8495 Bernard

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:32

Another one of my favourite BMW

http://www.flickr.co...ers/6441959367/

and at the French GP at Rouen in 65 he had my favourite Aga Neumann alongside

#8496 Bernard

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:44

http://www.dailymoti...to#.UO25Lmfx6Cg

3.25 in

#8497 Rennmax

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:38

Yep, same here Renn, plus I was calculating with Daytona being a tri-oval whether the prevailing wind at start time had the front straight sheltered plus a tail wind down the back if you ran clockwise etc etc, should have known SMBH would never have fussed over minutiae like that !
Have slipped a pic from the day into post #8482.


Thanks Glenn :up:

Edited by Rennmax, 09 January 2013 - 21:39.


#8498 Classicpics

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 21:08

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#8499 GD66

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 23:34

That's a ripper ! But again, who's the swinger ? Signature looks like Fred Mitchell or Hitchen... :confused:

Same with the earlier pic : no idea who that is. Even though Eric Bliss was in the chair when Vincent won the TT, most pics of him have either Terry Harrison, Keith Scott or John Thornton as ballast. I'll bet all of them had tales to tell, there used to be frequent shots in the magazines from those days of Vincent all crossed up in lurid drifts like the one above. A good man.

Edited by GD66, 10 January 2013 - 23:34.


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#8500 fil2.8

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 23:39

That's a ripper ! But again, who's the swinger ? Signature looks like Fred Mitchell or Hitchen... :confused:

Same with the earlier pic : no idea who that is. Even though Eric Bliss was in the chair when Vincent won the TT, most pics of him have either Terry Harrison, Keith Scott or John Thornton as ballast. I'll bet all of them had tales to tell, there used to be frequent shots in the magazines from those days of Vincent all crossed up in lurid drifts like the one above. A good man.


wasn't he , Glenn , loved watching him , a real hero of mine , was Chris , read he regarded passengers as necessary ' ballast ' ...................