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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8551 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:03

Frank Cope?

Well done Renn. :clap: Frank Cope indeed.

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#8552 Herr Wankel

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:35

Well done Renn. :clap: Frank Cope indeed.


Don't think Ted Fenwick would appreciate your opinion Sarge  ;) He's still winning at 81 (or is it 82) ! :drunk:

HW

#8553 RC162

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:49

Don't think Ted Fenwick would appreciate your opinion Sarge ;) He's still winning at 81 (or is it 82) ! :drunk:

HW


Ted won the 250 classic race at the Billown Races in 2011 at the age of 83.


#8554 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:27

Don't think Ted Fenwick would appreciate your opinion Sarge ;) He's still winning at 81 (or is it 82) ! :drunk:

HW

Oh dear, trust me to put my big foot in it. :blush:
Without wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm not sure how well an elderly body would withstand a hard fall. Whether we like it or not, our bones and muscle tissue change from when we were young and certainly can't take the sort of hammering we expected them to withstand in the old days.
But you are correct. It is a personal decision as to whether or not one races at an advanced age, and personally, I wouldn't want that to change.

#8555 Russell Burrows

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:30

Oh dear, trust me to put my big foot in it. :blush:
Without wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm not sure how well an elderly body would withstand a hard fall. Whether we like it or not, our bones and muscle tissue change from when we were young and certainly can't take the sort of hammering we expected them to withstand in the old days.
But you are correct. It is a personal decision as to whether or not one races at an advanced age, and personally, I wouldn't want that to change.

Multiple TT winner from the 20’s/30’s, Charlie Dodson, was another example, Sarge. Charlie stepped off his period Sunbeam after being invited to give a demo at Brands in what must have been around 1980 ish. Apparently he was enjoying himself so much he stayed out there – helmetless, say some reports – despite calls from worried officials asking him to come in. The old Sunbeam star later died in hospital. I think he retired in the mid thirties and would guess his age at about eighty when he died.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 04 March 2013 - 11:34.


#8556 RC162

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:55

Oh dear, trust me to put my big foot in it. :blush:
Without wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm not sure how well an elderly body would withstand a hard fall. Whether we like it or not, our bones and muscle tissue change from when we were young and certainly can't take the sort of hammering we expected them to withstand in the old days.
But you are correct. It is a personal decision as to whether or not one races at an advanced age, and personally, I wouldn't want that to change.


It's not only in competition either. I was in the Past Masters parade at the 1000 bikes when Tommy Robb took a tumble at the Esses and really knocked himself about. It brought home to me that we don't bounce as well as we did. Mind you several fractures and a punctured lung aint good at any age.


#8557 RC162

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:22

Multiple TT winner from the 20’s/30’s, Charlie Dodson, was another example, Sarge. Charlie stepped off his period Sunbeam after being invited to give a demo at Brands in what must have been around 1980 ish. Apparently he was enjoying himself so much he stayed out there – helmetless, say some reports – despite calls from worried officials asking him to come in. The old Sunbeam star later died in hospital. I think he retired in the mid thirties and would guess his age at about eighty when he died.



This is listed as being a Charlie Dodson TT bike from the late twenties.

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#8558 Paul Collins

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:30

Oh dear, trust me to put my big foot in it. :blush:
Without wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, I'm not sure how well an elderly body would withstand a hard fall. Whether we like it or not, our bones and muscle tissue change from when we were young and certainly can't take the sort of hammering we expected them to withstand in the old days.
But you are correct. It is a personal decision as to whether or not one races at an advanced age, and personally, I wouldn't want that to change.


One of the reasons I was never tempted back for another go, I remember more than once in my 20's being up and out for work at 0630 despite being lobbed up the road at 90mph the day before, and shuffling around wincing in pain all day as a result, but I knew that even in my late 30's I wouldnt have been able to do that anymore.

But for those who wish to continue it should be up to themselves and whoever is signing their medical form to make that decision.

#8559 GD66

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 23:19

#11 is me on my 400 Husqvarna, in an all-Husky race at the Wandering vintage motocross a couple of years back. The bloke beside me on #16 is Bill Watson, aged 83 then, and he outdragged me to turn 1 ! As you can see in the lower shot, from the long, low jump in the back straight at Narrogin, he still gets stuck in : these days he doesn't ride grade racing, sticks to the over-55s, and has won multiple over-60s national titles. Started roadracing on a Goldie in the 1940s and has never stopped, must be fast approaching 85. Bill has never smoked or drank, has been racing Huskies since the 1960s and has 16 of them under his house, and what's worst is when he's working on an engine in his workshop, doesn't need glasses : the swine !
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What a lad ! :clap:

Edited by GD66, 04 March 2013 - 23:23.


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#8560 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:48

WWW?
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#8561 johnyC

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 15:46

Russel, I think the chap at the back is Hugh Anderson, at what looks like Glencrutchery road. If so, he rode a Norton in the 1960 and 1961 senior races.

#8562 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 17:07

Russel, I think the chap at the back is Hugh Anderson, at what looks like Glencrutchery road. If so, he rode a Norton in the 1960 and 1961 senior races.

I thought that Johnny, but then decided it wasn't the enzedder. I wonder what others think? It's definitely on the Island, seemingly a practice session, in about '61.

#8563 Classicpics

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 21:15

I thought that Johnny, but then decided it wasn't the enzedder. I wonder what others think? It's definitely on the Island, seemingly a practice session, in about '61.

The guy facing the camera looks like Percy Tait

Yes to 15 Hugh Anderson

Edited by Classicpics, 08 March 2013 - 21:22.


#8564 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 22:16

The guy facing the camera looks like Percy Tait

Yes to 15 Hugh Anderson



Yes, could be Percy. Readie between between him and the copper?

#8565 Paul Collins

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 22:23

Russel, I think the chap at the back is Hugh Anderson, at what looks like Glencrutchery road. If so, he rode a Norton in the 1960 and 1961 senior races.


Yep definately the start line, and literally just up the road from me, that house just visible in the left of shot was empty for years but now looks to have been renovated and re-occupied, perfect spot.

#8566 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:26

A clue then.
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#8567 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:28

Yep definately the start line, and literally just up the road from me, that house just visible in the left of shot was empty for years but now looks to have been renovated and re-occupied, perfect spot.


Was it once the cemetery keeper's cottage?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 09 March 2013 - 09:43.


#8568 larryd

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:31

A clue then.
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So you went to Salzburg for the clue, Russ?

It's the 1961 TT- a practice shot (no side numbers)

15 is indeed Hugh Andrson on his 500 Norton, and 43 Bertie Schneider on his 350.

I had started this reply before you posted your clue, Russ -- honest !!


:cool:

#8569 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:39

Well done, Larry. Didn't Bert have a career ending crash around '64?

#8570 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:54

I like this one.
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#8571 Robin127

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:56

A clue then.
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Is that the 250 "4"? aka "Whispering Death"


#8572 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 23:58

Yes, brave man, aye.

#8573 Paul Collins

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 00:21

Was it once the cemetery keepers cottage?


Yes I think so Russell, then it must have become un-occupied once the cemetery became maintained centrally from town, I think its occupied again now.

I remember when I used to sit up there on the road warming up a TZ350 at 5am in the morning along with about 60 other people doing the same and I used to look over at that house with curtains drawn tightly and think poor buggers where else in the world would anyone put up with this :D

Those moaning Mallory NIMBY's dont know they're born!!

Edited by Paul Collins, 09 March 2013 - 00:23.


#8574 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:42

I like this one.
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Me too. Looks like Gary Hocking talking to Mika Hakkinen's father. LOL. Is that the MV in the foreground?

Edited by SgtPepperoni, 09 March 2013 - 07:44.


#8575 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:34

Me too. Looks like Gary Hocking talking to Mika Hakkinen's father. LOL. Is that the MV in the foreground?

Yes, Gary in what must be '61 with the 'Privat' MV. I also immediately thought he was talking to a Hakkinen. Interesting vans too. Not everything across the western world back then had to look the same as everywhere else.
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Edited by Russell Burrows, 09 March 2013 - 10:36.


#8576 larryd

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:28

Yes, Gary in what must be '61 with the 'Privat' MV. I also immediately thought he was talking to a Hakkinen. Interesting vans too. Not everything across the western world back then had to look the same as everywhere else.
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Has to be Imatra??

#8577 Rennmax

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:04

Has to be Imatra??


Pretty sure it's Hockenheim, 'Magura' was famous then for their handlebars and levers in Germany

Edited by Rennmax, 09 March 2013 - 12:11.


#8578 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:20

Pretty sure it's Hockenheim, 'Magura' was famous then for their handlebars and levers in Germany

I agree Renn. Almost sure it's Hockenheim. I am open to correction, but I'm not sure if the track in Imatra existed at that time.
Magura are still involved in the motorsport scene, although more in motocross now I think. KTM fit their hydraulic clutch unit to their machines and their bars are probably the best in the business. They are also big in the bicycle side of things.

Edited by SgtPepperoni, 09 March 2013 - 12:21.


#8579 LittleChris

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 21:29

Blond chap looks more like he could be Mika Salo's dad than Mika Hakkinen's to me !!

Did Magura supply parts to the GP teams in which case they would have had a presence regardless of the circuit ? On that basis and continuing the Finnish connection, I wonder if this is Tampere 1962 rather than Hockenheim

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#8580 pmbboy

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 22:31

Just came across this picture it might cause some thought as to WWW
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#8581 billlawrence

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 00:31

Will give Jim Redman in South Africa a try Bill Lawrence

#8582 GD66

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:30

Jeez that's not a bad call, Bill. I think Jim did get his mitts on an RD56 for a short time there when he had a Yamaha shop.

#8583 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:20

Just came across this picture it might cause some thought as to WWW
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Yes, I agree with Biil. Jim Redman, and while I can't name the mechanic on the right of the machine changing the plugs, the guy on the left helping him, with the yamaha cap, is the Yamaha importer in South Africa, or at least he was then, Charlie Young. I had the pleasure of meeting him one year when I came over to SA for one of the TT's.
That pic looks like it was taken in about 1968/69. If I recall correctly, I read somewhere that Jim had a few outings on an RD56 which was sent over to SA at the time. Track looks like Roy Heskith in Petermaritzberg.

#8584 bella

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 14:47

Yes, I agree with Biil. Jim Redman, and while I can't name the mechanic on the right of the machine changing the plugs, the guy on the left helping him, with the yamaha cap, is the Yamaha importer in South Africa, or at least he was then, Charlie Young. I had the pleasure of meeting him one year when I came over to SA for one of the TT's.
That pic looks like it was taken in about 1968/69. If I recall correctly, I read somewhere that Jim had a few outings on an RD56 which was sent over to SA at the time. Track looks like Roy Heskith in Petermaritzberg.

I reckon its Redman as well, he raced Hailwood and his six a couple of times as I recall from his book.

#8585 pmbboy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 19:48

I reckon its Redman as well, he raced Hailwood and his six a couple of times as I recall from his book.


Hi All,
Well it did not take very long all answers correct, from my information it is Redman on the RD56 Yamaha supplied by Charlie Young the Yamaha importer for SA, that is Charlie Young changing the plugs, the venue is the wonderfull Roy Hesketh circuit in Pietermaritzburg and the year is 1968.
The best Yamaha had at this time was the TD1C and so to get an exworks RD56 obviously needed a few strings pulled but having Redman as the rider certainly helps, I seem to recall that maybe one of the local racers also had a ride on the RD56 maybe it was Tommy Johns.

cheers
Pete

#8586 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 20:09

Hi All,
Well it did not take very long all answers correct, from my information it is Redman on the RD56 Yamaha supplied by Charlie Young the Yamaha importer for SA, that is Charlie Young changing the plugs, the venue is the wonderfull Roy Hesketh circuit in Pietermaritzburg and the year is 1968.
The best Yamaha had at this time was the TD1C and so to get an exworks RD56 obviously needed a few strings pulled but having Redman as the rider certainly helps, I seem to recall that maybe one of the local racers also had a ride on the RD56 maybe it was Tommy Johns.

cheers
Pete

Thanks for that Pete. When I heard Jim was racing in SA on a RD56, which was Yamaha's works machine at the time, I wondered why a 6 times world champ would want to beat up on the local opposition, who quite obviously were all really a bunch of hobby racers on machinery that was vastly inferior. One would have thought his ego would have been satisfied with what he had already achieved. Obviously not.

Edited by SgtPepperoni, 12 March 2013 - 20:37.


#8587 Russell Burrows

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 23:55

A good shot from the other place. I'm pretty sure it's '64.
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#8588 billlawrence

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:00

Thanks for that Pete. When I heard Jim was racing in SA on a RD56, which was Yamaha's works machine at the time, I wondered why a 6 times world champ would want to beat up on the local opposition, who quite obviously were all really a bunch of hobby racers on machinery that was vastly inferior. One would have thought his ego would have been satisfied with what he had already achieved. Obviously not.

As I remember it Redman opened a motorcycle shop and couldnt get a Honda agency so got a Yamaha one .I supose the spectators would have been happy to see a works bike at their meetings .We used to go to see the MV and Honda works bikes at UK meetings .
Bill Lawrence

#8589 Herr Wankel

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:12

As I remember it Redman opened a motorcycle shop and couldnt get a Honda agency so got a Yamaha one .I supose the spectators would have been happy to see a works bike at their meetings .We used to go to see the MV and Honda works bikes at UK meetings .
Bill Lawrence


How many World Championships DO you need to get a Honda agency then ?

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#8590 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:00

As I remember it Redman opened a motorcycle shop and couldnt get a Honda agency so got a Yamaha one .I supose the spectators would have been happy to see a works bike at their meetings .We used to go to see the MV and Honda works bikes at UK meetings .
Bill Lawrence

Quite Bill, only, I think it's fair to say, it would have been a wonderful opportunity for Jim, who is a lovely fellow I might add, to support an up and coming South African. There were a couple of really good young 'uns as well, as that would have been about the time Kork Ballington and John Ekerold were cutting their teeth.
Anyway, it was what it was, and I'm sure the spectators loved watching Jim do his thing.

Edited by SgtPepperoni, 13 March 2013 - 10:00.


#8591 billlawrence

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:12

Quite Bill, only, I think it's fair to say, it would have been a wonderful opportunity for Jim, who is a lovely fellow I might add, to support an up and coming South African. There were a couple of really good young 'uns as well, as that would have been about the time Kork Ballington and John Ekerold were cutting their teeth.
Anyway, it was what it was, and I'm sure the spectators loved watching Jim do his thing.

Yes true Sarge They did have quite a few top riders at the time .By the way didnt Redman give a leg up to his brother in law Bruce Beale in to the Honda team ? a lot better riders around at the time I think .
Bill Lawrence

#8592 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:26

Yes true Sarge They did have quite a few top riders at the time .By the way didnt Redman give a leg up to his brother in law Bruce Beale in to the Honda team ? a lot better riders around at the time I think .
Bill Lawrence

Ah, the role of politics, perhaps nepotism too, might generate a lively discussion. I didn't know Beale was his brother in law?

#8593 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:27

A good shot from the other place. I'm pretty sure it's '64.
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Cracking shot of the Mint, Russ. Is that exiting clearways?

#8594 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:31

Yes true Sarge They did have quite a few top riders at the time .By the way didnt Redman give a leg up to his brother in law Bruce Beale in to the Honda team ? a lot better riders around at the time I think .
Bill Lawrence

Not sure about Beale, Bill, although he was certainly, like Jim, also from Rhodesia.

#8595 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:32

Cracking shot of the Mint, Russ. Is that exiting clearways?

Ah, you've missed that big right mitt, Sarge. He must be diving into a corner, not sure where though.

#8596 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:19

Ah, you've missed that big right mitt, Sarge. He must be diving into a corner, not sure where though.

:blush: I certainly did. :rotfl:

#8597 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:17

I think I can count six Gilera fours, two MV's, a Guzzi, a Be'em and, of course, Manxes galore. Must be '55? Were Standard Triumph big in Belgium?
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Edited by Russell Burrows, 13 March 2013 - 16:04.


#8598 fastfitter

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 19:45

I think I can count six Gilera fours, two MV's, a Guzzi, a Be'em and, of course, Manxes galore.



My ears are bleeding just thinking about it :drunk:


#8599 Russell Burrows

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 17:27

I wonder if it's genuinely unrestored?
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#8600 Robin127

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 21:49

I wonder if it's genuinely unrestored?
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The gear lever/linkage rod looks pretty new.