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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8601 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:36


Moto Guzzi really probed both sides of the spectrum, didn't they. Their V8 was an attempt to win with brute force, whereas their brilliant single cylinder 350 relied on power to weight and handling for the success it achieved. Two very different philosophies, with the relatively underpowered 350 finding by far the greater success.

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#8602 germanty

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:05

I wonder if it's genuinely unrestored?
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A fabulous machine. Where was this pic taken and what year? (I know the flag is a bit of a give away).
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#8603 GD66

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:27

TT '57 ?

#8604 Russell Burrows

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:59

A fabulous machine. Where was this pic taken and what year? (I know the flag is a bit of a give away).

The Austin A50 too. Looks a bit like Douglas prom in what must be '57? Is it me or is there something not entirely kosher about this example ? Has it really been stashed away somewhere with its bashed about fairing and Avon rubber, or is someone tying to make it appear like this?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 15 March 2013 - 10:01.


#8605 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:56

The Austin A50 too. Looks a bit like Douglas prom in what must be '57? Is it me or is there something not entirely kosher about this example ? Has it really been stashed away somewhere with its bashed about fairing and Avon rubber, or is someone tying to make it appear like this?

Certainly looks that way Russ. Frame looks like it's freshly painted and the shock looks brand new. Maybe the fairing is supposed to give it the battle scarred look.

#8606 germanty

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:33

The Austin A50 too. Looks a bit like Douglas prom in what must be '57? Is it me or is there something not entirely kosher about this example ? Has it really been stashed away somewhere with its bashed about fairing and Avon rubber, or is someone tying to make it appear like this?



View the http://guzzista.wetp...Guzzi V8 WANTED site to hear the sound. Didn't Sammy Miller drop his model at Montlhery in 2008?
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#8607 Russell Burrows

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:17

Certainly looks that way Russ. Frame looks like it's freshly painted and the shock looks brand new. Maybe the fairing is supposed to give it the battle scarred look.

View the http://guzzista.wetp...Guzzi V8 WANTED site to hear the sound. Didn't Sammy Miller drop his model at Montlhery in 2008?
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Yes Sarge, since there were only ever a handful made, one assumes they're all traceable?

Thanks for the link, germanty. Where would racing have been back then without the Italian factories; I wonder what percentage of the dosh they made building bikes was spent on their racing budget?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 15 March 2013 - 14:50.


#8608 GD66

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:36

Didn't Sammy Miller drop his model at Montlhery in 2008?




It was his Kay Engineering Gilera that Sammy fired up the road at Montlhery.

#8609 bella

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 19:14

It was his Kay Engineering Gilera that Sammy fired up the road at Montlhery.

I've seen a youtube clip of someone crashing the V8 at a recent TT whilst on a demo run, dont know who or when though.

#8610 Russell Burrows

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 21:06

Can anyone WWW this little shot?
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#8611 GD66

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 22:49

I've seen a youtube clip of someone crashing the V8 at a recent TT whilst on a demo run, dont know who or when though.



Todero's son had one at the TT a couple of years back and crashed it at Braddan Bridge.


#8612 billlawrence

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:24

Can anyone WWW this little shot?
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Could the chap on the right be Frank Reynolds 1962 Manx Bill Lawrence

#8613 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:17

Could the chap on the right be Frank Reynolds 1962 Manx Bill Lawrence

It could, Bill, I'm dead impressed. It's Frank after his Manx win, although that was '61. This race was run in some of the worst conditions ever seen, with rain and gales battering riders throughout. As you probably recall, fairings were then banned in the Manx; the appalling conditions may have led the organisers to rescind that rule for the following year. Robin Dawson, the bloke shaking Frank's hand, was runner up and would go on to win in '62

Edited by Russell Burrows, 16 March 2013 - 10:19.


#8614 germanty

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 17:26

It could, Bill, I'm dead impressed. It's Frank after his Manx win, although that was '61. This race was run in some of the worst conditions ever seen, with rain and gales battering riders throughout. As you probably recall, fairings were then banned in the Manx; the appalling conditions may have led the organisers to rescind that rule for the following year. Robin Dawson, the bloke shaking Frank's hand, was runner up and would go on to win in '62


I should have recognised Robin Dawson. I was at the Manx in 1961 and miserable it was as I remember.
In the 1970's I needed an engineering job done and found a small business near my office in Primrose Hill near Regents Park in London.
I think it was called Dawson and Shanahan? As I entered the shop his pictures were all over the wall.
His 2nd place in the Junior in 1961 was 10mph slower than his win the following year.
Wasn't the TT run in bad weather also?

#8615 Paul Collins

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 21:17

I should have recognised Robin Dawson. I was at the Manx in 1961 and miserable it was as I remember.
In the 1970's I needed an engineering job done and found a small business near my office in Primrose Hill near Regents Park in London.
I think it was called Dawson and Shanahan? As I entered the shop his pictures were all over the wall.
His 2nd place in the Junior in 1961 was 10mph slower than his win the following year.
Wasn't the TT run in bad weather also?


Was this the race Fred Neville was leading until his accident?

#8616 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 23:44

Was this the race Fred Neville was leading until his accident?


It was Paul. Fred had led for almost the entire race until crashing at Appeldene on the last lap when leading by a couple of minutes.


#8617 Russell Burrows

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 23:57

I should have recognised Robin Dawson. I was at the Manx in 1961 and miserable it was as I remember.
In the 1970's I needed an engineering job done and found a small business near my office in Primrose Hill near Regents Park in London.
I think it was called Dawson and Shanahan? As I entered the shop his pictures were all over the wall.
His 2nd place in the Junior in 1961 was 10mph slower than his win the following year.
Wasn't the TT run in bad weather also?


Were you riding, germanty? Do you recall much about the race? I recall reading that Robin died about five or six years back? I think too that he retired after the Manx, having promised his then beloved that he would knock racing on the head once he had won on the Island. I see Readie averaged around 95 in the '61 Junior TT, so presumably it wasn't wet.


#8618 GD66

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 00:20

True.

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#8619 germanty

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:28

Were you riding, germanty? Do you recall much about the race? I recall reading that Robin died about five or six years back? I think too that he retired after the Manx, having promised his then beloved that he would knock racing on the head once he had won on the Island. I see Readie averaged around 95 in the '61 Junior TT, so presumably it wasn't wet.


Afraid the old grey matter is playing up again. Its of course the 1959 Senior that was wet.
I think this picture of Roy Ingram pushing in to finish whilst Derek Powell rides past epitomises this race. Winner Surtees looked like a drowned rat at the end.

Robin did move away - not sure where though. I am given to understand he sold his is business for a lot of money. Two bed Terrace houses sell where he had his business for 5 million +

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#8620 GD66

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:36

Wonder what happened there ? I had a look on the (admittedly-dubious) TT database, it lists Derek Powell as fourth, and Roy Ingram as a dnf. So either that's taken with a lap to go, or Roy may have cut out the Governor's Bridge twisty, and been de-listed from the result. If so, rather soul-destroying...
Fantastic, atmospheric pic, all the same. Cheers, Germ.

#8621 roger9650

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:53

Seeing frank Reynolds reminds me that I bought a 350 Goldie from his shop in Middlesbrough in 1968. Spent a fortune putting it into race trim, and in doing so met Doug Marshall (MGP/TT rider & tuner) who had a workshop in Marske by the Sea. What a character!. My big mistake was not heeding his advice; when I turned up with the Goldie and asked him what he could do he pulled out and flicked his cigarette lighter! His biography on the IOMTT website is worth reading. As for me I quickly realised my limitations and called it a day, sold the bike for peanuts, and still regretting it.

Edited by roger9650, 17 March 2013 - 12:06.


#8622 Russell Burrows

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 13:06

Seeing frank Reynolds reminds me that I bought a 350 Goldie from his shop in Middlesbrough in 1968. Spent a fortune putting it into race trim, and in doing so met Doug Marshall (MGP/TT rider & tuner) who had a workshop in Marske by the Sea. What a character!. My big mistake was not heeding his advice; when I turned up with the Goldie and asked him what he could do he pulled out and flicked his cigarette lighter! His biography on the IOMTT website is worth reading. As for me I quickly realised my limitations and called it a day, sold the bike for peanuts, and still regretting it.

Do you happen to know if Frank is still around?

#8623 Russell Burrows

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 13:14

Afraid the old grey matter is playing up again. Its of course the 1959 Senior that was wet.
I think this picture of Roy Ingram pushing in to finish whilst Derek Powell rides past epitomises this race. Winner Surtees looked like a drowned rat at the end.

Robin did move away - not sure where though. I am given to understand he sold his is business for a lot of money. Two bed Terrace houses sell where he had his business for 5 million +

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As a kid I remember having one of those Scholfield records of this race: 'down came the rain, blinding, torrential rain and down came the speeds', said Murray, or something along those lines  ;) At race end I think Surtees had to be lifted off the bike ?

Another good shot, germanty.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 17 March 2013 - 13:18.


#8624 Classicpics

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 13:47

As a kid I remember having one of those Scholfield records of this race: 'down came the rain, blinding, torrential rain and down came the speeds', said Murray, or something along those lines ;) At race end I think Surtees had to be lifted off the bike ?

Another good shot, germanty.

That's exactly right Russ, I still have the EP's and an LP of Mike with Peter Arnold!

#8625 Russell Burrows

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 16:54

That's exactly right Russ, I still have the EP's and an LP of Mike with Peter Arnold!

Blimey, Classic, and there's me not able to remember what I had for me tea last night.

#8626 Paul Collins

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 19:43

Do you happen to know if Frank is still around?


I'm sure I read that Frank passed away last year.

#8627 Paul Collins

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 19:48

Afraid the old grey matter is playing up again. Its of course the 1959 Senior that was wet.
I think this picture of Roy Ingram pushing in to finish whilst Derek Powell rides past epitomises this race. Winner Surtees looked like a drowned rat at the end.

Robin did move away - not sure where though. I am given to understand he sold his is business for a lot of money. Two bed Terrace houses sell where he had his business for 5 million +

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That photo is right outside my house, one more for my collection!! my lounge window fronts that pavement just out of shot to the right.

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Edited by Paul Collins, 17 March 2013 - 20:02.


#8628 billlawrence

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:03

I'm sure I read that Frank passed away last year.

Dosnt look like Frank raced in the TT after his Manx win did he do much after ? Bill Lawrence

#8629 Russell Burrows

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:26

Dosnt look like Frank raced in the TT after his Manx win did he do much after ? Bill Lawrence

The database shows he did the next two years at the TT. I suspect Frank was no spring chicken when he won the Manx. Perhaps too more of an island specialist than a scratcher. I have the info stashed somewhere so Ill check, but I don't think he featured much during Manx practice - this was dominated by Fred Neville who was tipped to win both races - so it seems the nature of the race, and lots of guts, helped him bag the win.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 18 March 2013 - 10:34.


#8630 Paul Collins

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 16:44

Dosnt look like Frank raced in the TT after his Manx win did he do much after ? Bill Lawrence


He did at least one TT as somewhere a photo exists of Ago with the MV in mid air as he passes a startled looking Frank over Ago's leap.

#8631 billlawrence

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:38

The database shows he did the next two years at the TT. I suspect Frank was no spring chicken when he won the Manx. Perhaps too more of an island specialist than a scratcher. I have the info stashed somewhere so Ill check, but I don't think he featured much during Manx practice - this was dominated by Fred Neville who was tipped to win both races - so it seems the nature of the race, and lots of guts, helped him bag the win.

Yes I missed him on the database must do something about my eyes some nice photos of Frank too Bill Lawrence

#8632 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 18:39

In case any of you FB refuseniks missed this. Good one, aye. (Photo courtesy of David Rennie)
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#8633 dixie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:16

In case any of you FB refuseniks missed this. Good one, aye. (Photo courtesy of David Rennie)
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I can almost taste the atmosphere.

#8634 picblanc

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 21:18

Great shot Thames vans & Duffle coats & Donkey jackets!! Mallory?

#8635 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 21:27

I can almost taste the atmosphere.

I think it's early on in '64. His other Manx is at the rear of the white Thames van with the open doors. (actually it had a red stripe along the side, as well as windows - is that a bit embarrassing to remember that ?.... think it probably is).

#8636 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 21:28

Great shot Thames vans & Duffle coats & Donkey jackets!! Mallory?

It is, isn't it. Definitely Mallory.

#8637 Classicpics

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 22:15

Looks like early morning practice, well 9am, had to wait 'till after the church service in the village had finished. if you listen carefully you can hear "The Mint" blipping the throttle.


#8638 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:49

WWW ? (photo via Moto Guapa)
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#8639 GD66

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 14:21

I think I can count six Gilera fours, two MV's, a Guzzi, a Be'em and, of course, Manxes galore. Must be '55? Were Standard Triumph big in Belgium?




Colnago won the Belgian 500 in '55, but John Surtees won in 1956: here's a pic of him with Domenico Agusta and a proud Jack Surtees : note the Vanguard advertising on the left...so your pic could be from '56, Russell.
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The other Euro pic looks like Dan Shorey on the right, but it would be unusual to find him on a G50 rather than a 500 Manx...

Edited by GD66, 20 March 2013 - 14:23.


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#8640 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 16:17

I think by '56, Glenn, the Gileras were fitted with what would be almost the last of their dustbin designs. The fours in the picture have the earlier fairings which were painted red with exposed aluminium, rather than the more famous red and white colour scheme of the later version with its much larger perspex screen, different cooling vents, and generally more aerodynamic appearance.

The Spanish shot is Banbury Dan. He rode 7R's and G50's for Tom Arter around 62/3. The other G50 pilot is a bit of a mystery to me

Edited by Russell Burrows, 20 March 2013 - 16:35.


#8641 Russell Burrows

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:12

I can get all bar one, I think.
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#8642 tonyed

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 17:59

1. Ago
10 Billy Nelson
2 Renzo Passolini
27 Kel Curruthers
3 Gunter Bartusz
24?
11 Dave Simmonds
4 ?
6 Franta Stazny
14 Dan Shorey
22 A German rider name escapes me

#8643 Rennmax

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 18:38

4 Ginger Molloy, 22 Karl Hoppe, 3 Heinz Rosner ?

Edited by Rennmax, 21 March 2013 - 18:42.


#8644 Paroni09

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 18:44

1. Ago
10 Billy Nelson
2 Renzo Passolini
27 Kel Curruthers
3 Gunter Bartusz
24?
11 Dave Simmonds
4 ?
6 Franta Stazny
14 Dan Shorey
22 A German rider name escapes me

Nice picture, Dutch TT Assen 350cc 1968.
4=Ginger Molloy Nzl, Bultaco, 22=Karl Hoppe D, Aermacchi.
24?

#8645 larryd

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 20:21

Nice picture, Dutch TT Assen 350cc 1968.
4=Ginger Molloy Nzl, Bultaco, 22=Karl Hoppe D, Aermacchi.
24?


24 Fred Stevens on the crook's Paton ?

#8646 Russell Burrows

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:27

Yes, Assen, 68. I think it goes like this: Ago, Nelson, Paso, Carruthers, Rosner, Simmonds, Molloy, Stastny, Bergamonti, German rider, probably Hoppe, Shorey.

#8647 Russell Burrows

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:35

24 Fred Stevens on the crook's Paton ?


I thought about Fred, but I think he had stopped riding Bill Hannah's Patons by '68, Larry. Perhaps retired entirely?


#8648 RC162

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:45

Yes, Assen, 68. I think it goes like this: Ago, Nelson, Paso, Carruthers, Rosner, Simmonds, Molloy, Stastny, Bergamonti, German rider, probably Hoppe, Shorey.


Saw Dan Shorey at Mallory yesterday at the VMCC/BHR test day. He looked really well and was taking a great interest in some of the bikes. Also I'm sure I saw Tony Jefferies in the pits at one point.

#8649 Paroni09

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:15

24 Fred Stevens on the crook's Paton ?


No, not Fred Stevens, its Angelo Bergamonti on a Hannah Paton no 24.

#8650 HEMEYLA

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 20:46

:clap:

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