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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8751 Russell Burrows

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 13:59

Yes, happy birthday to the Mint.

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#8752 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 13:05

Too easy for a WWW?
Posted Image
Photo courtesy of Uncle A J)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 30 April 2013 - 13:17.


#8753 knickerbrook

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 13:45

Great shot!
Dan's Nortons were not the most well-presented were they?
(And he seemed to continue to paint his numbers on long after most had gone over to stick-ons!).

#8754 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 14:57

Isn't this the factory framed bike with Cerianis and Lockeed brakes?
Posted Image
(Another pic from Uncle AJ)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 30 April 2013 - 14:58.


#8755 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 15:00

Great shot!
Dan's Nortons were not the most well-presented were they?
(And he seemed to continue to paint his numbers on long after most had gone over to stick-ons!).

Yeah, both of them seem pretty well used. I recall Croxford telling me his 7R was the best bike he ever owned.

#8756 GD66

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:58

Isn't this the factory framed bike with Cerianis and Lockeed brakes?



Reckon so, Colin Lyster modification innit ?

Who's the rider of the Jim Ball 7R behind the lad ?

Edited by GD66, 01 May 2013 - 07:00.


#8757 GD66

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:59

I recall Croxford telling me his 7R was the best bike he ever crashed.



Fixed that one for you, Russell ! :lol:


#8758 larryd

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:48

Reckon so, Colin Lyster modification innit ?

Who's the rider of the Jim Ball 7R behind the lad ?


Looks a bit like Alan Shep, but I don't ever remember him riding Ball's bikes ??

:confused: :confused:

#8759 Russell Burrows

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 13:23

Reckon so, Colin Lyster modification innit ?

Who's the rider of the Jim Ball 7R behind the lad ?

Lyster constructed his own ultra small diameter tube frame for this beastie, clearly not this one. Did he also make the brakes ?

Looks a bit like Alan Shep, but I don't ever remember him riding Ball's bikes ??

:confused: :confused:

I thought he rode Jim Ball's bikes before about '63, Larry, - possibly the same ones later raced by Stuart Graham? It does look like Alan in the pic, almost certainly isn't though. It's from '67, a time when Alan was using the 300 MZ (or had he been forced to retire by then?) or whatever size it was supposed to be. Edit: I'm reminded, Larry, that he also rode for Geoff Monty, as well as for the AMC factory (maybe same bikes?). I'm a bit vague though on the chronology prior to him racing Kirby's G50.

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Edited by Russell Burrows, 01 May 2013 - 15:58.


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#8760 Russell Burrows

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 16:05

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#8761 pmbboy

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 16:39

Posted Image


Hi,
Looks like Hartle on a Triumph Metisse and Butcher on the Dunstall Domiracer
Mallory 67

Pete


#8762 Russell Burrows

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 17:19

Hi,
Looks like Hartle on a Triumph Metisse and Butcher on the Dunstall Domiracer
Mallory 67

Pete

Yes, I agree, John and Rex. I'm pretty certain it's Oulton park though, Peter. I was wondering about that megaphone on Hartle's bike - too big maybe to be fitted to a twin ? Could it be G50 Mettise ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 01 May 2013 - 20:37.


#8763 Russell Burrows

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 17:34

This one looks in much better nick, Barry. Rex at Oulton Park, 67, with that bloke from the Likely Lads walking over to have a shufti.
Posted Image
(Thanks again to Uncle AJ for the pic)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 01 May 2013 - 19:22.


#8764 GD66

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 22:07

Lyster constructed his own ultra small diameter tube frame for this beastie, clearly not this one. Did he also make the brakes ?




The Lyster frame was for the 500, but I'm sure Colin also did the front-end mods for the 350 four seen here.


BTW who is Uncle AJ, Russell ? Loving his collection of great b&w race pics !

Edited by GD66, 01 May 2013 - 22:08.


#8765 Russell Burrows

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 22:27

The Lyster frame was for the 500, but I'm sure Colin also did the front-end mods for the 350 four seen here.

BTW who is Uncle AJ, Russell ? Loving his collection of great b&w race pics !


The old minces aren't what they were Glenn, but unless I'm horribly mistaken this is the 500. Wasn't the 350 around this period ('67 ) the 297 six?

Tell you about my uncle AJ a bit later ;)

Edited by Russell Burrows, 01 May 2013 - 22:46.


#8766 GD66

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 22:43

I believe that bike to be the 350 four now owned by Bob Heath.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by GD66, 01 May 2013 - 22:53.


#8767 Russell Burrows

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 23:05

I believe that bike to be the 350 four now owned by Bob Heath.


I now believe it too. Apologies for getting it all arse about face. I had no recollection of the smaller bikes being fitted with discs et al. I might have checked out the shade of the number backround too. :blush: Thanks for sorting that, Glenn.


#8768 GD66

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:31

That's the only one I can remember with discs. Think that 350 four was kept in the UK for domestic Internationals, it certainly popped up a few times here and there after the sixes were introduced.
Here is a pic of Dale Wylie on his Lyster G50 from 1969/70, note the similarity of the front end.
Posted Image


#8769 kz71

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:57

That's the only one I can remember with discs. Think that 350 four was kept in the UK for domestic Internationals, it certainly popped up a few times here and there after the sixes were introduced.
Here is a pic of Dale Wylie on his Lyster G50 from 1969/70, note the similarity of the front end.
Posted Image



Yep, those are Lyster calipers and discs. Gary Boote had some molds done and made his own around 74-75. He even tried them (unsuccessfully) with locally made alu discs.

#8770 knickerbrook

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 13:25

Could the rider on the Jim Ball 7R be a young Brian Ball (son?) with a previous helmet design to the one we are familiar with?
Certainly looks like him.

#8771 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:25

I wonder how the mid fifties Manx and the Bulseizo got on in this one? Posted Image
(Photo courtesy of Uncle AJ)

#8772 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:28

Posted Image
Good shot, aye. (Courtesy of Uncle AJ) The earlier mention of Dave 'Crashford" (bit harsh, maybe) reminds me that this guy earned a reputation for being quick and staying upright. I watched a lot of racing when a kid in the sixties and I don't think I can recall him ever falling off, although it must have happened ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 03 May 2013 - 11:23.


#8773 Tonka

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 21:28

Rex Butcher was another rider who could jump from bike to bike and keep the results coming in. He had at least one good season on a 250 Suzuki 250, just before the production Yamahas arrived.

I think he retired in the early/mid 70's. I bumped into him at Brands in the early 80's, when he was watching a national event.

He also did well on a 350 Kawasaki in 68

http://books.google....ved=0CEMQ6AEwDA


Edited by Tonka, 03 May 2013 - 21:32.


#8774 Russell Burrows

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:13

Rex Butcher was another rider who could jump from bike to bike and keep the results coming in. He had at least one good season on a 250 Suzuki 250, just before the production Yamahas arrived.

I think he retired in the early/mid 70's. I bumped into him at Brands in the early 80's, when he was watching a national event.

He also did well on a 350 Kawasaki in 68

http://books.google....ved=0CEMQ6AEwDA

Yes, a good rider who was perceived as safe. He was alleged to have been selected to ride the TR2 for Bill Ivy's mum for this reason. I wonder if a similar calculation was made by Paul Dunstall after the loss of Fred Neville, Dave Downer and Syd Mizen ? In the same year as these pics were taken he went to Monza with Dunstall, coming back with a swag of 750 hour records. I think too that his stint on the GP circus was in the same year.

#8775 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 09:52

Yes, a good rider who was perceived as safe. He was alleged to have been selected to ride the TR2 for Bill Ivy's mum for this reason. I wonder if a similar calculation was made by Paul Dunstall after the loss of Fred Neville, Dave Downer and Syd Mizen ? In the same year as these pics were taken he went to Monza with Dunstall, coming back with a swag of 750 hour records. I think too that his stint on the GP circus was in the same year.

Rex was into flying after his racing career ended. Evidently he was/is a very competent pilot. Anyone know what he's up to these days?

#8776 fil2.8

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:38

Rex was into flying after his racing career ended. Evidently he was/is a very competent pilot. Anyone know what he's up to these days?



Plays a bit of golf and generally enjoying life , aged 71 now


#8777 Russell Burrows

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 16:19

Posted Image
Thanks again to good old Uncle AJ for the pic)

#8778 omobono

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 20:43

Posted Image


Good Evening WWW

#8779 Russell Burrows

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 21:35

Good Evening WWW[/quote]
Hi, Gilberto Milani on the factory Aermacchi chasing someone who just might might be Billy McCosh on his 7R, Ramsey Hairpin '67?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 04 May 2013 - 21:39.


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#8780 billlawrence

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:42

Posted Image
Thanks again to good old Uncle AJ for the pic)

Who is the other chap with Minter Russ? Bill Lawrence

#8781 omobono

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:18

Good Evening WWW
Hi, Gilberto Milani on the factory Aermacchi chasing someone who just might might be Billy McCosh on his 7R, Ramsey Hairpin '67?



Yes, spot on 1967 Junior it is, when the course lap record was broken on an oversize 250 from a standing start !!

#8782 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:48

Who is the other chap with Minter Russ? Bill Lawrence

I don't Know, Bill. Some of these pics include blokes from either heats (did they have such things at Oulton Park ?) or the back end of the grid. What do you rekon he's riding ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 05 May 2013 - 09:50.


#8783 pmbboy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:23

I don't Know, Bill. Some of these pics include blokes from either heats (did they have such things at Oulton Park ?) or the back end of the grid. What do you rekon he's riding ?


Hi,
I wonder if it is a 500 Triumph similar to the Percy Tait model possibly one of the factory test riders or maybe a home brewed look a like.

Pete


#8784 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 13:41

Hi,
I wonder if it is a 500 Triumph similar to the Percy Tait model possibly one of the factory test riders or maybe a home brewed look a like.

Pete

Yes, I immediately thought it resembled Percy's bike. Looks like it might remain a mystery.

#8785 billlawrence

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:00

Hi,
I wonder if it is a 500 Triumph similar to the Percy Tait model possibly one of the factory test riders or maybe a home brewed look a like.

Pete

Yes at first glance it looks like a Tait Triumph but look how the fairing bulges out on the side wouldnt have thought a Triumph twin would need that sort of clearance maybe its some sort of two stroke or a home made four ? .
Bill Lawrence

#8786 GD66

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:18

Been scratching my scone as well Bill, sure doesn't look like a Triumph motor hanging in behind that fairing and although it seems to have a long, tapered megaphone the motor looks like an aircooled two-stroke. The tank also is a strange shape, looks to taper downwards half way back, like the one on Alan Baker's Dunstall Kawasaki. Forks look more Norton than Triumph as well. Good excuse to slip in a pic of Paul Smart on his lovely little Targa Oondred... :cool:
Posted Image


Edited by GD66, 06 May 2013 - 02:25.


#8787 tonyed

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:19

[quote name='GD66' post='6254308' date='May 6 2013, 03:18']Been scratching my scone as well Bill, sure doesn't look like a Triumph motor hanging in behind that fairing and although it seems to have a long, tapered megaphone the motor looks like an aircooled two-stroke. The tank also is a strange shape, looks to taper downwards half way back, like the one on Alan Baker's Dunstall Kawasaki. Forks look more Norton than Triumph as well.

Don't forget that Sir Percys’ Triumph had the oil tank ahead of the engine behind the front wheel. Could this be what we are observing on a similar Triumph machine?

Also at the very top left of the piccie to the right of the two spectators is a dark V shaped object I think might be the Loch Ness Monster. :clap:

These old photos are fascinating. :smoking:

Edited by tonyed, 06 May 2013 - 06:20.


#8788 fil2.8

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:01

Been scratching my scone as well Bill, sure doesn't look like a Triumph motor hanging in behind that fairing and although it seems to have a long, tapered megaphone the motor looks like an aircooled two-stroke. The tank also is a strange shape, looks to taper downwards half way back, like the one on Alan Baker's Dunstall Kawasaki. Forks look more Norton than Triumph as well. Good excuse to slip in a pic of Paul Smart on his lovely little Targa Oondred... :cool:
Posted Image




Going inside of Tom Phillips ?? :wave:


#8789 billlawrence

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:59

Been scratching my scone as well Bill, sure doesn't look like a Triumph motor hanging in behind that fairing and although it seems to have a long, tapered megaphone the motor looks like an aircooled two-stroke. The tank also is a strange shape, looks to taper downwards half way back, like the one on Alan Baker's Dunstall Kawasaki. Forks look more Norton than Triumph as well. Good excuse to slip in a pic of Paul Smart on his lovely little Targa Oondred... :cool:
Posted Image

HI Glen i dont think it is a long tapered megaphone it dosnt line up with the bikes exhaust I think its the marshals foot behind the riders boot Bill Lawrence

#8790 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 21:18

Posted Image

Is there something about the tank/seat on the 'Triumph' in the earlier pic that resembles the arrangement on this one? Seems to me there might be. An oil tank/cooler behind the front wheel too. Since this photo was among Uncle's collection, albeit from a few years later, I wonder if it's a pic of the same bike in its then latest incarnation ? Flimsy evidence? I agree. There are two air scoops on the front stopper of the earlier bike, so it's probably fitted with an expensive 4ls brake, perhaps the same as the Fontana on Smart’s factory T100? Norton forks too. For me though there something about it that says it’s a homemade special. Then there’s the anonymous rider…..

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 May 2013 - 08:20.


#8791 Tonka

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 22:04

The *Negus* bike above - any connection with this chap ?

http://www.zoominfo....Negus/589446846

Richard Negus once built and owned very sucessful Racing Norton Commandos, that were known to occasionally beat the Norton works efforts, one making 2nd place at the Barcelona 24 hour race (the factory bikes had fallen by the wayside early on in the race)





#8792 Russell Burrows

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:22

The *Negus* bike above - any connection with this chap ?

http://www.zoominfo....Negus/589446846

Yes, unlikely there's not a connection.

#8793 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 13:36

Posted Image
Not a bad shot?

#8794 GD66

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 13:38

Posted Image
I wonder if it's a pic of the same bike in its then latest incarnation ?



Good question ! Looks like a fairly flimsy twin-downtube frame with the engine rotated forward a few degrees for a start. Triumph front hub with an 8" twin-leader, a far from convincing brake for a race bike. What about the state of the chain where it's feeding onto the rear sprocket? It's a wonder someone on here hasn't tumbled across this unusual creation at some stage...


#8795 GD66

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 13:39

Not a bad shot?



A beauty. Misano ?


#8796 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 13:50

A beauty. Misano ?

No, Glenn it's Austria - Tulln, the the airfield circuit, at least I think it is. The structure behind though does look like a road bridge, as in part of the old Salzburg GP road circuit ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 May 2013 - 14:33.


#8797 Classicpics

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 16:08

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Stylish John on a Rickman and Sir Percy on his 500 Triumph

#8798 Classicpics

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 16:10

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#8799 RC162

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 17:25

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Stylish John on a Rickman and Sir Percy on his 500 Triumph


Has anyone a picture of Percy on his GP 500 Triumph clearly showing the drum front brake and the disc rear brake ?


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#8800 GD66

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 22:52

Is that for your mate's replica ? The front is a conventional 9" Fontana, pics of the rear disc are very thin on the ground but I will have a look through some old mags.
Posted Image
How's that project going, by the way ?

Edited by GD66, 08 May 2013 - 23:03.