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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#8851 GD66

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:51

So, Solitude 1960 ?

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#8852 larryd

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 14:40

So, Solitude 1960 ?


Three-digit Lightweight numbers equals German races.

So, 1960 Solitude indeed !!


#8853 Russell Burrows

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 21:00

Some famous faces here:
Posted Image

#8854 GD66

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 22:22

Sneaky. I'll open the bidding : Syd Lawton picking up the trophy...

On the left, Reg Armstrong and... Bob Brown ?

No idea who the unimpressed soul in the middle could be.

#8855 Robin127

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 23:24

Sneaky. I'll open the bidding : Syd Lawton picking up the trophy...

On the left, Reg Armstrong and... Bob Brown ?

No idea who the unimpressed soul in the middle could be.



McIntyre?


#8856 germanty

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:14

Some famous faces here:
Posted Image


Could it be the 1953 North West 200? Syd Lawton won the 500cc, Bob Mac the 350cc and Arthur Wheeler the 250cc race.
Metropole Hotel in the background - crowd seem to fit? Armstrong on the left ?


#8857 Russell Burrows

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:41

Could it be the 1953 North West 200? Syd Lawton won the 500cc, Bob Mac the 350cc and Arthur Wheeler the 250cc race.
Metropole Hotel in the background - crowd seem to fit? Armstrong on the left ?

I think it could well be, germanty, well done. Why though is Reg there ?

#8858 GD66

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:48

First Irish rider home ?

#8859 Russell Burrows

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:09

First Irish rider home ?

Dubliner Reg in a UK race..... presumably then, as now, all dodgy stuff. Larry, where are you?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 25 July 2013 - 09:15.


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#8860 larryd

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 19:52

Dubliner Reg in a UK race..... presumably then, as now, all dodgy stuff. Larry, where are you?


Correct in every detail, germanty, but Russ has a few queries unanswered . . . . . . . .

Russ, you picked a very interesting race to quiz us on.

In 1953, for the first time, the North of Ireland Motor Club decided to give encouragement to private entrants, and put up a list of awards for non-manufacturer entries.

Reg Armstrong and Dickie Dale rode 500 Gilera 4s, but Dickie was entered by Austen Munks while Reg entered himself! Crafty or what?

So - 1st and 2nd in the 500 were the works-entered Nortons of Uncle Sid Lawton and Ken Kavanagh, while Reg, a poor third, won the private entrants' ( :lol: ) award - hence his presence in the pic.

Armstrong and Dale circulated together, in that order, in the opening laps, but Dickie got a stone in the goggles from Reg's back wheel and retired.

The race was noteworthy for another reason - it was the only racing start ever made by the Norton "Kneeler", ridden by Ray Amm. He retired on lap 3, but not before setting the fastest 350 lap of the day.

Finally, Russ, it may politically and geographically have been a UK race but in terms of the governance of the sport, it was run under the auspices of the Motor Cycle Union of Ireland.

As in Rugby Union, the Irish Governing Body governs the entire island of Ireland - the ACU has no say whatever in our events

That's it, I think
.

Edited by larryd, 25 July 2013 - 20:15.


#8861 Russell Burrows

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 21:30

Correct in every detail, germanty, but Russ has a few queries unanswered . . . . . . . .

Russ, you picked a very interesting race to quiz us on.

In 1953, for the first time, the North of Ireland Motor Club decided to give encouragement to private entrants, and put up a list of awards for non-manufacturer entries.

Reg Armstrong and Dickie Dale rode 500 Gilera 4s, but Dickie was entered by Austen Munks while Reg entered himself! Crafty or what?

So - 1st and 2nd in the 500 were the works-entered Nortons of Uncle Sid Lawton and Ken Kavanagh, while Reg, a poor third, won the private entrants' ( :lol: ) award - hence his presence in the pic.

Armstrong and Dale circulated together, in that order, in the opening laps, but Dickie got a stone in the goggles from Reg's back wheel and retired.

The race was noteworthy for another reason - it was the only racing start ever made by the Norton "Kneeler", ridden by Ray Amm. He retired on lap 3, but not before setting the fastest 350 lap of the day.

Finally, Russ, it may politically and geographically have been a UK race but in terms of the governance of the sport, it was run under the auspices of the Motor Cycle Union of Ireland.

As in Rugby Union, the Irish Governing Body governs the entire island of Ireland - the ACU has no say whatever in our events

That's it, I think
.

Thanks for the full and interesting response, Larry.

#8862 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 16:27

Who and what we got here I wonder ?
Posted Image

#8863 Rennmax

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 16:39

Who and what we got here I wonder ?
Posted Image


Yoshimi Katayama on the 'whispering death' square four, Assen '65 I guess

#8864 Paroni09

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 16:52

Yoshimi Katayama on the 'whispering death' square four, Assen '65 I guess

Yes, indeed, Dutch TT Assen 1965, 4th place.

#8865 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 20:04

Yoshimi Katayama on the 'whispering death' square four, Assen '65 I guess

Yes, indeed, Dutch TT Assen 1965, 4th place.

Yes gents, only from the warm up question category you understand, but not bad going all the same :smoking:

Edited by Russell Burrows, 02 August 2013 - 20:15.


#8866 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 21:27

Posted Image
How's about these blokes?

#8867 fil2.8

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 21:38

Well , it is on the old tower at Brands , overlooking South Bank ..........................., is the bloke on the left the MD of the sponsoring paper/ciggie firm , Russ ?? , the rider , a Mint type lid mmmmm :confused:

#8868 Herr Wankel

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 21:38

Posted Image
How's about these blokes?


Degner on the right,don't know about the boxer

HW

#8869 Bernard

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 21:59

As a kid at school one of these was my first Racing hero whose results I followed..Any ideas

http://i39.servimg.c...70/norton10.jpg

#8870 fil2.8

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 22:35

Degner on the right,don't know about the boxer

HW




Of course , its Freddie Mills , with Peter Arnold who did the mike , behind ??

#8871 Russell Burrows

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 23:03

Yes, gents, the former light heavyweight Word Champ with Degner at Brands sometime in the sixties. This couldn't have been too long before Freddie shot himself - or did he...? Isn't there a school of thought that believes Ernst also killed himself ?

#8872 GD66

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 00:30

I thought it might have been a Hutchinson 100 meeting, but Degner doesn't feature in the winners list there : the only place he features is a win on the Suzuki 50 in 1962. Can't say I recall ever seeing a pic of him at Brands before.

The Freddie Mills story is another matter entirely...

And Ray Battersby's slant on Degner's death, without wishing to derail the thread, can be found here

http://forums.cyclew...ad.php?t=249421

Edited by GD66, 03 August 2013 - 01:37.


#8873 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 01:17

As a kid at school one of these was my first Racing hero whose results I followed..Any ideas

http://i39.servimg.c...70/norton10.jpg

You've stumped me, Bernard. I suspect he's not a Brit?

#8874 Bernard

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:45

You've stumped me, Bernard. I suspect he's not a Brit?


Correct

#8875 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 10:08

Correct

Erm.....Jacques Collot, maybe ?

#8876 Bernard

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:43

Erm.....Jacques Collot, maybe ?


Jacques Insermini on the right and the left...His picture in the first copy of Motorcycle News I ever bought (it had been MotorCycling until then) cornering on a Manx at the Spanish Grand Prix at Monjuich Park ..Jean Pierre Bayle

#8877 haroldh

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 15:17

Hi Folks
just had an email from Lothar Mildebrath about site with lots of interesting old stuff - photos seems new too!

http://www.lamaneta....oguapaFOTO.html

In the link are photos of sidecars @ Barcelona-Montjuic 1962. Apparently H Scholes ( number 7) is there. I know he finished 5th but any other details or reports would be nice to see. Can anyone help? http://forums.autosp...fault/smile.gif

thanks
Haroldh

#8878 GD66

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:52

Jacques Insermini on the right and the left....Jean Pierre Bayle



Was Bayle related to the multi-skilled Jean Michel ?

Insermini was an interesting character : normally best-known for being Nanou's other half before Jack Findlay, but Peter Pawson told me Insermini was an early scuba diver, and taught Peter the disciplines required, so well that Peter was a commercial diver for a while in later years. It is said Insermini used to fund his racing lifestyle from treasure recovered from sunken wrecks.

Edited by GD66, 05 August 2013 - 08:52.


#8879 Bernard

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:32

Was Bayle related to the multi-skilled Jean Michel ?

Insermini was an interesting character : normally best-known for being Nanou's other half before Jack Findlay, but Peter Pawson told me Insermini was an early scuba diver, and taught Peter the disciplines required, so well that Peter was a commercial diver for a while in later years. It is said Insermini used to fund his racing lifestyle from treasure recovered from sunken wrecks.


I wondered about Jean Michel over the years and have googled in various places but he has made no mention of any connection. Interesting about Insermini I am not sure if the Manx is his
or not but the trailer towers look intriguing after your comment about sunken treasure

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#8880 philippe7

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:56

There is no family connection between Jean-Pierre Bayle ( who was from the Bordeaux area ) and Jean-Michel ( from Manosque, on the french riviera )

Regarding Jacques Insermini, I'm surprised one of his "other" occupations after his racing days has not surfaced yet among this generally well informed group .... in the mid/late 70's he was one of the best known french actors in a very .....eeeer.... "specialized" sort of cinema, in a period which people now fondly look back to as "the golden age" of the kind :smoking:

#8881 Bernard

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:09

There is no family connection between Jean-Pierre Bayle ( who was from the Bordeaux area ) and Jean-Michel ( from Manosque, on the french riviera )

Regarding Jacques Insermini, I'm surprised one of his "other" occupations after his racing days has not surfaced yet among this generally well informed group .... in the mid/late 70's he was one of the best known french actors in a very .....eeeer.... "specialized" sort of cinema, in a period which people now fondly look back to as "the golden age" of the kind :smoking:

Phillippe !

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0409374/

Do you have any info about Jean Pierre as I didnt know he was from around Bordeaux

#8882 GD66

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:10

Ha ! Presumably NOT Monsieur Hulot's Holiday....what a giggle, quite a life !! :clap:

#8883 philippe7

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 21:18

Do you have any info about Jean Pierre as I didnt know he was from around Bordeaux



Bernard, I know close to nothing about Jean-Pierre Bayle since he raced long before I became interested - but the fact that he was from Bordeaux and was not related to Jean-Michel was confirmed to me by well-known french journo Jacques Bussillet, so hopefully he knows what he is talking about...

To show how little I know about Jean-Pierre Bayle, I wasn't even aware that he was murdered in Pessac ( suburb of Bordeaux ) and that the crime was never explained, nor the killer identified . Just found the following article on the website of the french daily newspaper "Sud Ouest" announcing a special issue about "16 famous crimes in the region that were never solved" and naming "the murder of former motorcycle champion Jean-Pierre Bayle" among those
http://www.sudouest....882136-3034.php

#8884 Bernard

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 21:31

Bernard, I know close to nothing about Jean-Pierre Bayle since he raced long before I became interested - but the fact that he was from Bordeaux and was not related to Jean-Michel was confirmed to me by well-known french journo Jacques Bussillet, so hopefully he knows what he is talking about...

To show how little I know about Jean-Pierre Bayle, I wasn't even aware that he was murdered in Pessac ( suburb of Bordeaux ) and that the crime was never explained, nor the killer identified . Just found the following article on the website of the french daily newspaper "Sud Ouest" announcing a special issue about "16 famous crimes in the region that were never solved" and naming "the murder of former motorcycle champion Jean-Pierre Bayle" among those
http://www.sudouest....882136-3034.php



Phillippe, many thanks that is an astonishing piece of info. As I assume you are French my other "hero" was also French Jo Rogliardo, who was a chef from Lyon we found out, on his BMW outfit with Marcel Godillot as passenger. All my peers at school had rock stars but a few of my buddies and I had motorcycle racers to follow usually by seeing their picture in the Motorcycle Press.

#8885 Bernard

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 22:43

Bernard, I know close to nothing about Jean-Pierre Bayle since he raced long before I became interested - but the fact that he was from Bordeaux and was not related to Jean-Michel was confirmed to me by well-known french journo Jacques Bussillet, so hopefully he knows what he is talking about...

To show how little I know about Jean-Pierre Bayle, I wasn't even aware that he was murdered in Pessac ( suburb of Bordeaux ) and that the crime was never explained, nor the killer identified . Just found the following article on the website of the french daily newspaper "Sud Ouest" announcing a special issue about "16 famous crimes in the region that were never solved" and naming "the murder of former motorcycle champion Jean-Pierre Bayle" among those
http://www.sudouest....882136-3034.php



http://ma-tvideo.fra...02d99b6b4s.html 4m 52s in the article is mentioned

#8886 Russell Burrows

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:21

;)

Hi Folks
just had an email from Lothar Mildebrath about site with lots of interesting old stuff - photos seems new too!

http://www.lamaneta....oguapaFOTO.html

In the link are photos of sidecars @ Barcelona-Montjuic 1962. Apparently H Scholes ( number 7) is there. I know he finished 5th but any other details or reports would be nice to see. Can anyone help? http://forums.autosp...fault/smile.gif

thanks
Haroldh

Harold, that's a nice shot of your dad. Good to see that further pics and info are being found. Yes, some excellent shots on the site - one or two look curiously familiar.  ;)

#8887 tonyed

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:46

;)
Harold, that's a nice shot of your dad. Good to see that further pics and info are being found. Yes, some excellent shots on the site - one or two look curiously familiar. ;)


http://www.lamaneta....bum/index.html#

On Santiagos' Ossa what is the cable operated open close quadrant aft of the carb? Not the throttle cable that is sat on the carb screw top, but it seems connected to the fuel tank via a filter (?)

#8888 HEMEYLA

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:15

Delivery control at the oilpump, crankshaft and bigend bearings are pressure lubricated.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 08 August 2013 - 14:16.


#8889 tonyed

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 17:51

Delivery control at the oilpump, crankshaft and bigend bearings are pressure lubricated.


I thought it might be as I seem to remember the oil tank being in the seat, it just seemed miles from where the oil was to be delivered to (my original post was during lunch time at work during the normal 8 hours of brain atrophy) but I suppose there must be an oil pump inboard which is driven off the internal ? looks like the clutch release mechanism, perhaps Santiago had to keep pumping the clutch to get oil pressure :confused: (only joking there).

I would have liked to see the Ossa up against the Morini, the two fastest 250 singles (discounting my 250 Greeves Silverstone of course). They are both photographed on this site. Did they ever clash around the streets of Francos Spain?

Edited by tonyed, 08 August 2013 - 17:56.


#8890 GD66

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 23:56

Looks like Morini took a couple of years off after Ago left, then only raced in the Italian championship.

http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/fast.html

#8891 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:10

Looks like Morini took a couple of years off after Ago left, then only raced in the Italian championship.

http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/fast.html

http://www.motomorin...nl/provini.html
A tiny taster of its engine note.

#8892 tonyed

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:38

http://www.motomorin...nl/provini.html
A tiny taster of its engine note.


How comes that the Morini, a 250 dohc single, sounds so different to the Moto3 bikes, also dohc 250 singles, thata just sound like flatulent bees? No comparison. :confused: The Morini sounds like a high reving four cylinder multi, then then again it is Italian not Jap or Austrian :cool:

#8893 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 17:01

How comes that the Morini, a 250 dohc single, sounds so different to the Moto3 bikes, also dohc 250 singles, thata just sound like flatulent bees? No comparison. :confused: The Morini sounds like a high reving four cylinder multi, then then again it is Italian not Jap or Austrian :cool:

Aren't they silenced ?

#8894 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 20:08

Posted ImagePosted Image
Posted Image
Why go to all the trouble of building a 'replica' and then make changes to the frame and other dimensions ?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 09 August 2013 - 20:36.


#8895 Russell Burrows

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:40

I don't think these have been up previously :
http://www.framepool...en/bin/1317796/

#8896 PaulMar

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 23:40

Aren't they silenced ?


It might also have something to do with that wonderful long gradually tapered megaphone!

#8897 tonyed

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 04:43

Aren't they silenced ?



If they aren't they should be - FOR EVER :clap:

#8898 Russell Burrows

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:31

In need of proofreading, but worth a gander nonetheless.
http://otleysquashcl...orks-greeves-at

Edited by Russell Burrows, 11 August 2013 - 21:54.


#8899 fastfitter

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:41

Posted Image



Don't know which is more impressive - the bike or the 'tache :)

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#8900 knickerbrook

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:55

In need of a decent proof reading, but worth a gander nonetheless.
http://otleysquashcl...orks-greeves-at

Yes, a good read Russ. Where the hell did you find that?