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Motorcycle racing; 1949-1968 nostalgia


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#151 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 04:23

:wave: Go to "the eBay thread" here and look at post 302 , lots of pix !!!

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#152 oldgit

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 18:03

Yo Bernard.
Yes, you're correct. I saw Peter Hole at Tweseldown, freezing January 1963 it must have been - what a performance. 'Metisse' frames were made by a couple of brothers in the Soton area I recall - more usually Triumph engines? 'Scrambling' became 'motocross' about this same time, as heavy four-strokes were replaced by lightweight two-strokes.
Later, I also remember Vic Eastwood vainly & gallantly trying to hold back the tide on a works 500 Matchless, but Dave Bickers usually pipped him on a CZ 'bee in a jamjar'.
I only saw it on TV (live) but will never forget - Jeff Smith on a 500 BSA in a marathon battle with Bickers. Smith incredibly won (just). Bickers was small & wiry. Smith was built like 'a brick outhouse', but tough & tenacious. No way was any bugger going to pass him! He went on of course to a world championship, a Heifetz of the motorcycle. I read he is 70 now & living in Wisconsin. Murray Walker rated the Smith-Bickers duel as an all-time classic. Right, but is there a DVD? I'd love to see it again. Oldgit

#153 knickerbrook

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 21:35

Here's a wierd looking racer from 1966. What is it and who rode it?

Posted Image

#154 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 21:45

I was almost tempted to say it resembles the 'Kneeler' Norton practised at the IoM TT by Ray Amm, but that dates to 1953. Perhaps it's a sprint bike? My era but I just don't know. :|

#155 pmbboy

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 22:07

Originally posted by knickerbrook
Here's a wierd looking racer from 1966. What is it and who rode it?

Posted Image


It is a 350 Norton built and ridden by South African Ray Flack.

#156 pmbboy

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 22:11

Originally posted by pmbboy
Try this rider for who is it? Maybe it will last longer than my previous picture.Posted Image

I do not think any one will guess this rider now, it is John Samways who rode for my father Doug Aldridge in 1967 and 1969.
He had moderate success in both years but then decided to pursue his gunsmith carrear in the USA.
cheers
Peter.

#157 knickerbrook

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 22:13

Well Paul - it IS a Kneeler Norton :clap: a 350 Manx in fact - and by coincidence, built and ridden by another rider called Ray!! But this one was built in 1966. I'm not sure if it ever got raced in anger (apparently, the Ray Amm one got no further than practise sessions?). According to the test report I have on it, Dave Degens also had a go on it. Perhaps others can throw more light on it?

#158 pmbboy

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 23:01

Can anyone guess who this rider is.I am not sure.
Picture taken circa 1961 South Africa.
Posted Image
cheers
Peter

#159 oldgit

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:21

Re the scrambling 4-stroke days;

sorry Berhard, Paul Rochdale & Macca, I overlooked your previous relevant remarks. "What went wrong?" In a way, nothing. Perhaps the technology moved on to a new style of rider & racing that just doesn't appeal to us older generation, I'd guess. And the crowds today just don't know what they've missed.

To return like all old bores to my own query - about a very special Manx 350 campaigned by Reg Dearden. Yes, it was he, I finally remembered: a few synapses fired & I Googled the rest.

This always stuck at the back of my mind - Dearden prepared (late 1950s) this 350 which riders discovered would rev to 10,000 (claimed). Dreams? But, it did keep winning - the pudden's proof. That all ended when the crankcases were replaced. Now why would this be?

The rev limit of a big single is set by the destructive forces of speeding the heavy piston, then stopping & reversing its direction - a huge strain on the conrod assembly as revs rise. Even titanium rods & one-piece forged flywheel assemblies have a limit.

As an eminent IATE (Ignorant Armchair Theoretical Engineer), I suggest: Manx engines were more hand than mass-produced, so dimensions might vary in small but significant ways, as in this example. Perhaps the crankcase walls were slightly thinner/thicker than the norm? Speculating, might this have had an enhancing effect at ultra-high revs? Like. that large piston hammering up & down also increased & decreased c/case gas pressures. The normal c/case exhausting provision might not be coping as intended once over the designed rev limit. Was a secondary harmonic of shock waves set up?

Maybe with Dearden's engine, he had stumbled on an extreme 'sweet spot' harmonic that somehow eased or cushioned the reversing forces - as similarly with much later two-stroke tuned exhaust technology. Significantly, Dearden claimed this was discovered accidentally, when a rider muffed a gearchange & saw the rev counter spin past 8,000 (but the engine didn't self-destruct).

Yes, it figures. Who would experiment on the bench with such dangerously high revs? Get it wrong once & you'd have some horribly expensive Manx bits to buy. Tuning is tough enough without - many hours of hard work, the most usual reward, 'four-fifths of sweet Fanny Adams' (Joe Craig).

Any other similar cases, or thoughts? Oldgit

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#160 knickerbrook

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:43

Regarding that mystery rider - looks like a G50 - I'm not very well up on that period, but could it be Jim Redman?

#161 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 22:06

I've just browsed through Jim Redman's autobiography and for most of his career he wore a plain silver helmet. Earlier on his helmet had a transfer at the front but never a pale stripe across the top and around the rim. Me? I haven't a clue... :confused:

#162 Bernard

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 16:08

pmb boy

Errol Cowan ?

#163 T54

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 16:38

Just as a matter of interest, does anybody on this forum know anything about the alleged twin cylinder Bultaco TSS.



Alain Barbaroux built a twin-cylinder Bultaco 500cc set in a Norton Manx frame in 1968. It was called "Barbulton" and was built in the Sud Aviation shops. Alain Barbaroux got killed shortly after the bike was completed, so the project died. I do not know what happened to the bike, but it was very well done and apparently with some support form the works. I do not have a picture of it at this time.

T54

#164 T54

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 21:17

The Ray Amm Norton kneeler was used to set speed records at Monthlery in 1953 and was the basic inspiration for this fantasy bike which I designed for the Yamaha International Magazine in 1975. Note that it wears Hurley Wilvert's famous # 39, as Hurley was/is a very good friend:

Posted Image

Regards,

T54

#165 pmbboy

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 21:49

Originally posted by Bernard
pmb boy

Errol Cowan ?


No I am sure it is not Errol Cowan, my father who had this picture in his collection said it was Bruce Beale from Rhodesia. I looked at the picture and thought it might have been another Rhodesian rider Shaun Robinson but the more I look at it I am sure it is Bruce Beale. The picture was taken at the Roy Hesketh circuit in Pietermaritzburg and I was hoping that when someone saw the picture they would confirm that it was Bruce Beale. Maybe someone will.

cheers
Peter

#166 TTMarshal

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 23:02

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
Post 6.1 is definitely Tommy Robb pushing an early 250cc Honda twin.

Post 6.2 is a damaged Manx Norton with a Peel 'Mountain Mile' fairing, the best looking of all 50s and 60s fairings.

Post 6.3 - Helmut Fath? I'm not so sure.

Post 6.3 shows the German Heiner Butz, Asphisheim

#167 TTMarshal

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 23:26

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
Can anyone please help me with the exact date of the 1962 Junior TT race on the Island in which Tom Phillis lost his life? Thanks.

On June 6th 1962 350cc race, Laurel Banks, Isle of Man. His widow lives in Australia. Last june she wrote me a letter.

#168 TTMarshal

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 23:37

On my Homepage click the button "Hobbies/Links" and click the second Link from above. You will find a lot of pictures from former racers.Enjoy it.

#169 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 09:34

Thank you TTMarshal.
http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=17273800

#170 Bernard

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 12:28

pmb boy

Shaun and Tommy Robinson visited me about 8 years ago when they were in England but have not heard from them for a while

#171 pmbboy

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 22:49

Originally posted by Bernard
pmb boy

Shaun and Tommy Robinson visited me about 8 years ago when they were in England but have not heard from them for a while

Bernard, the more I look at the photo I am sure it is Bruce Beale.
Here is another of my father Doug's photos again taken at the Roy Hesketh circuit.
The two riders are Tommy Robinson and Jim Redman.
Posted Image
cheers
Peter

#172 TTMarshal

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 23:49

Who, where, when ?

[IMG]http://img150.images...25cc1kk8.th.jpg[/IMG]

#173 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 14:40

Romolo Furri, 1956, Gilera 125cc twin, First round of the Itaian Championship at Monza (Sharp intake of breath!)

#174 T54

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 17:23

Those Gilera 125's were the prettiest GP bikes ever... :clap:

#175 Bernard

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 20:54

Thanks PMB. thats a great picture. Tommy told me a horrible story about Ian Burne being killed on a beach in Mozambique somewhere by a robber . I once travelled back on the boat from the IOM with Ian so that came as a big shock

#176 T54

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 21:59

Romolo Furri, 1956, Gilera 125cc twin


Uh Paul, may be "Romolo FERRI"? :wave:

#177 TTMarshal

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 22:54

Congrats, 100%

#178 TTMarshal

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 23:15

Another one:
Who, year, where?

[IMG]http://img186.images...tscanyh3.th.jpg [/IMG]

#179 pmbboy

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 23:21

Originally posted by Bernard
Thanks PMB. thats a great picture. Tommy told me a horrible story about Ian Burne being killed on a beach in Mozambique somewhere by a robber . I once travelled back on the boat from the IOM with Ian so that came as a big shock


Bernard,
I do remember my father telling us the sorry tale of Ian Burne. I think when he was killed he had fallen on hard times.It was a real tragedy as he was a very talented rider and should have achieved much more in the racing he did in Europe.
cheers
Peter

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#180 pmbboy

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 23:24

Originally posted by TTMarshal
Another one:
Who, year, where?

[IMG]http://img186.images...tscanyh3.th.jpg [/IMG]

I think it is Jack Ahearn 1958 Salzburg Austria.

cheers
Peter.

#181 TTMarshal

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 23:31

No, it is not Jack Ahearn

#182 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:16

Straw clutcher here. Ray Amm used to wear his helmet at odd angles, and this rider's helmet is a bit skew-wiff with his goggles. Ray Amm?

#183 Bernard

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:45

John Hempleman ? Dennis Fry?

#184 pmbboy

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 13:39

Originally posted by TTMarshal
No, it is not Jack Ahearn


Let's try Ken Kavanagh.
cheers
Peter

#185 TTMarshal

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 14:56

Well done Bernard: The picture shows John Hempleman,New Zealand, on his Norton, , in the 1959 500cc Race in Schleiz (East Germany)

#186 TTMarshal

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 15:16

Please try this, who is the rider??

[IMG]http://img262.images...tscanvc5.th.jpg[/IMG]

#187 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 17:03

Bernd

I've PM'd you.

Paul

#188 TTMarshal

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 17:47

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
Bernd

I've PM'd you.

Paul

I have answered Paul.

#189 Bernard

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 21:46

It looks like a G45 Matchless and the only one I could think who rode one continuing the NZ theme was Peter Murphy but its only a guess

#190 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 21:59

It's certainly a Matchless G45 and German riders frequently wore helmets painted white with a black band. The Continental '1' on the numberplate suggests this also. Mystified (but intrigued) again.

#191 T54

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 22:16

Bob Brown (G45) at Solitude in 1955? (just a guess...)

#192 TTMarshal

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 22:16

The picture shows the German Ernst Hiller 1955 in Schleiz on a G45 Matchless.

#193 TTMarshal

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 22:27

Originally posted by T54
Bob Brown (G45) at Solitude in 1955? (just a guess...)

This is Bob Brown, T54, very similar.

[IMG]http://img263.images...lastscangp7.jpg[/IMG]

#194 TTMarshal

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 22:48

Without helmets and leathers. Any idea who these guys are??

[IMG]http://img263.images...lastscanpz6.jpg[/IMG]

#195 T54

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 23:56

Flock'o Brits having a jolly good time? :cool:

#196 TTMarshal

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 11:54

Originally posted by T54
Flock'o Brits having a jolly good time? :cool:


Location: Rosevilla guesthouse, Isle of Man 1955. Back row L to R:Allen Burt, Gerald Roberts (Canada), Bill Collett (NZ), Fred Cook (NZ) and Bob Brown.
Front L to R: John Hemplemann (NZ), Richie Thomson and a typically well-dressed Maurie Quincey.

My next pictures will show again riders and their machines. :wave:

If I should stop it, please drop me a line. Pictures enough for the next few years ;)

#197 Martin Roessler

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 12:22

hey bulli...how's things :wave:
cheers marty

#198 TTMarshal

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 12:48

Originally posted by Martin Roessler
hey bulli...how's things :wave:
cheers marty

Wow, Hallo Martin, ich habe schon gelesen, dass Du hier im forum unterwegs bist.Hast Du meine DVD schon reingepfiffen?? :clap: Man liest voneinander.Very good Nostalgia Forum, it is unbelievable, but the lads here know everyting about racing, wow.I am impressed.I assume they knwo the answer of the question : What colour were Mike Hailwoods socks when he won his last TT :lol:

Keep on running :wave:

Bernd

#199 bigrog

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 21:51

Originally posted by T54
The Ray Amm Norton kneeler was used to set speed records at Monthlery in 1953 and was the basic inspiration for this fantasy bike which I designed for the Yamaha International Magazine in 1975. Note that it wears Hurley Wilvert's famous # 39, as Hurley was/is a very good friend:

Posted Image

Regards,

T54


T54,These drawings impress me so much as they are over thirty years old. This thing still looks ultra-modern today. It should look like the bikes of today and yet it still looks futuristic and different even now. It is odd that motorcycle chassis design has just not gone the way we thought it might. Monocoque construction hasn't really happened and modern design of MotoGP bikes concentrates still on the 'twin beam' chassis that became fashionable in the eighties rather than true monocoques. Hub centre steering is still not accepted and we stick with fork sliders which change steering geometry hugely which may help the bike turn in but always at the expense of stability. I suppose kneelers were always going to be difficult to use because, unlike a sidecar, bikes change direction in multi-planes and the rider needs to move his weight around constantly and kneeling restricts this. But I still think, in many ways this bike still looks ultra modern because it still is. Chassis design on two wheels seems so slow to change. What are your thoughts?

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#200 T54

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 23:01

The Japanese and the people working for them, British, American, German and French engineers have over the years, determined the direction in which racing technology has evolved. Frankly, I am not competent enough to judge if that direction is good or bad, I can only think that raising the CG to get greater cornering clearance instead of lowering it to use less angle for equal speed sounds to me like the wrong approach. However, today, a single person cannot have enough knowledge and talent to do what it takes to get a GP bike to the top, so I prefer to not say too much as the technology by-passed my limited knowledge a long time ago.

As far as center-hub steering, I believe that there are better ways to achieve the desired effect today, such as wide-base double A-arms with a rigid upright as I sketched in this project for the 125cc Gilera:

Posted Image

There you can see some of the possible advantages of such a system that can incorporate the brake calipers, a variable ratio steering depending on the track design, a fully adjustable trail and caster as well as the use of a much more sophisticated single shock/spring unit, while providing less unsprung weight. While something similar has been produced since my original 1977 drawings, no one as yet has fully used the available width of the driver's shoulders to design the widest possible wishbones, so the actual result by Fior and others may be tainted by a lack of rigidity and leverage of the system.
In my opinion of course!

Anyway if you like this, you could have a looksie here , as more of the same is shown...
Regards,

T54