42 replies to this topic

[David Birchall]

Since I mentioned on another thread that I had owned a Lotus Elite S2 and got a lot of response (Well, two anyway...) i thought that you might like to try identifying the principals in the attached photo. The guy who is repairing the aluminium bodywork on my Aston DB2 had this picture pinned on his wall. He aquired it in Forli, Italy in 1988. His wife was working in the Auto Club de Italia and this and thousands of other photos were thrown out at that time. He rescued a handfull.

[Sharman]

Can't recognise either but the Elite's had a hard life!!

[bradbury west]

But the bumpers and radiator intake cowl are a good fit, always a problem with such thin metal.

RL

PS I assume that the hole marks on the sun awning are from drawing pins locating the photo and not bullet holes..............

[RTH]

Lovely old photograph, looks as if it ought to have been out of a scene on the Mille Miglia I guess Elites would have just been too late for that before it ended.
They are such a beautiful delicate looking car . Anyone remember the studio photo in 1961 of a white Elite with a girl lying on the bonnet with a caption something like "Two of the most memorable shapes in the world "

I suspect a sports car today with a similar size look and weight today with modern running gear would still be highly desirable.

[David Birchall]

No bullet holes!!

If one of you geniuses can brighten the image the faces are clear in the original.

I thought the car looked to be in pretty good shape. What is interesting is that it has the NACA duct and racing tires so somebody was serious about what they were doing.

What is that car in the background?

[Frank S]

Originally posted by David Birchall
What is that car in the background?

Looks like a FIAT of the generation once advertised as "The second best shape in Italy". The first was Sofia Loren, ne?

[frogeye59]

Originally posted by Frank S

Looks like a FIAT of the generation once advertised as "The second best shape in Italy". The first was Sofia Loren, ne?

Not convinced the car in the background is a FIAT, I think the car beyond that is a FIAT 5/600 and the little coupe/cabrio looks tiny in comparison. It could be a Vespa/Glas/Goggomobile I reckon, just havent found which yet......

[David Birchall]

Does nobody have any idea who? What? Where? When?

[bill moffat]

My first thought was Targa Florio but, alas, no such luck.

The only Elite I could find entered for the Targa was in 1963. Even then the Claude Dubois-entered car failed to appear for the start. So unless it went for a recce complete with race numbers we need to look elsewhere...

[Alan Cox]

Possibly Mugello?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by frogeye59
Not convinced the car in the background is a FIAT, I think the car beyond that is a FIAT 5/600 and the little coupe/cabrio looks tiny in comparison. It could be a Vespa/Glas/Goggomobile I reckon, just havent found which yet......

My immediate thought was 'Glas'... no idea why...

[David McKinney]

I wanted to say 'Autobianchi'

[frogeye59]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I wanted to say 'Autobianchi'

I think you are right David, having googled, I'd have to say it looks very much like a variant of the FIAT 500 Based - Autobianchi Bianchina.

[Bjorn Kjer]

You wont get much closer with that guess : Autobianchi in 1961 made a smal 2 seater cabrio based on Fiat 500 parts. As to the Elite I cannot provide any news than the above ones , my sources cant help. A guess : Local race, the race no. is very thinly painted on the hood.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I wanted to say 'Autobianchi'

Yes, on looking at the enlarged photo I can see why...

This car is smaller than the Glas I had in mind, which was probably a 1962 or 1963 production. I thought the car on the footpath was an old Millecento originally, but in the enlargement it's clearly a 500.

Wolf would drive this one.

[roadmap]

Always fancied an early elite for touring events. Anybody any experience of doing these kind of events

[RTH]

The Elite in the photo looks as if it is left hand drive doesn't it ?

[Huw Jadvantich]

Norman Wisdom?

[David Birchall]

Good guess but I think Norman Wisdom was smaller than that guy. I suspect both men are Italian judging by their clothing. And the car does appear to be lhd.

I thought the convertible in the background is a Goggomobile.

[frogeye59]

Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich
Norman Wisdom?

Lost on me this Huw, is there a story behind Norman Wisdom having a LHD Elite ??

[David Birchall]

Originally posted by frogeye59


Lost on me this Huw, is there a story behind Norman Wisdom having a LHD Elite ??

I think huw is referring to the physical resemblance-which is close but I recall Wisdom being a very small man. I met him in about 1965 when I was working in a filling station on the A3 south of Guildford. A Bentley Continental pulled up and this little bloke stepped down from it and said "Fill her up". I said "YOUR NORMAN WISDOM!!" but I think he already knew that....

[frogeye59]

Originally posted by David Birchall


I think huw is referring to the physical resemblance-which is close but I recall Wisdom being a very small man. I met him in about 1965 when I was working in a filling station on the A3 south of Guildford. A Bentley Continental pulled up and this little bloke stepped down from it and said "Fill her up". I said "YOUR NORMAN WISDOM!!" but I think he already knew that....

Ahhh with you now !, shame, I was hoping someone was going to reveal little known rallying/racing exploits with "Mr Grimsdale" on the notes or spanners.....

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by frogeye59


Ahhh with you now !, shame, I was hoping someone was going to reveal little known rallying/racing exploits with "Mr Grimsdale" on the notes or spanners.....

I think the nearest Norman Wisdom came to motor sport would have been in Rivers Fletcher's home movie of NW sneaking through their shared boundary hedge and nicking AFRF's trophies that were being displayed on a table in his garden. A tedious bit of film, even the first time you saw it, but Rivers was using it at his talks for years, if not decades.

[Cirrus]

I have seen Norman Wisdom, clearly enjoying himself, at the Goodwood events.

Is he a closet enthusiast?

[David McKinney]

I'm sure his photo was in Autosport at the height of his fame in the '50s - in some sort of celebrity motor racing capacity

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I'm sure his photo was in Autosport at the height of his fame in the '50s - in some sort of celebrity motor racing capacity

OK, I stand corrected. But it's not him with the Elite!

[RTH]

Well it might just as well be Lord Lucan !..............Now I suppose someone will come up with a motorsport connection for him as well !!


...................actually didn't someone on here say that Lucan knew Graham Hill ?

[Huw Jadvantich]

Actually Norman Wisdom was a semi serious guess. Norman Wisdom was a car enthusiast, and a motor cycle enthusiast. I am aware that car manufacturers made special cars for him, and have seen items (no clear recollections though) where he has been involved in some way with motor sport.
Lord Lucan's main connection with motoring is that if you try to find references to the Ford Corsair you are most likely to find Lord Lucan's use of the vehicle as its main claim to fame!

[Frank S]

Originally posted by frogeye59


I think you are right David, having googled, I'd have to say it looks very much like a variant of the FIAT 500 Based - Autobianchi Bianchina.

Like this, a little?

[Ray Bell]

Just to show that not everyone has the same high opinion of Elites as some...

I found this on a website - http://content.time....1657783,00.html

1958 Lotus Elite - Fiberglass was the '50s carbon fiber — tough, versatile, lighter than steel and more affordable than aluminum. The Kaiser Darrin and Corvette sports cars were wrapped in fiberglass bodies, for instance. Colin Chapman, the founding engineer of Lotus, was bonkers for weight savings. It was inevitable that he would be drawn to the material. And so, the Elite. Weighing just 1,100 lbs and powered by a punchy, 75-hp Coventry Climax engine, the Elite (Type 14) was a successful race car, winning its class at the 24 Hours of Le Mans six times. It was also a lovely little coupe, which made the moment when the suspension mounts punched through the stressed-skin monocoque all the more pathetic. The unreinforced fiberglass couldn't take the structural strain. In Chapman's cars, failure was always an option.

Americans!

[Rupertlt1]

Can anybody identify this #26 Lotus Elite?

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT

[RobMk2a]

Can anybody identify this #26 Lotus Elite?

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT

 

Its Roger Nathan in the Autosport World Cup. The white Elite was registered 8 MPG. (No. 12 is AT Foster in Dick Jacobs MG Midget). I think this is Roger's first Elite which was crashed at Brands Hatch in 1962. It was rebuilt with a new CBU for 1963 this was painted Jaguar Blue and still registered 8 MPG.  (See Roger's book - Roger Nathan An Adventurous Life) Rob 

 

Note Roger was entered as part of the British B Team, there was a British A Team and Dutch Team but apparently no German Team. 

Edited by RobMk2a, 28 October 2018 - 21:35.

[Bloggsworth]

In the time I worked at Panshanger and Delemare Road I never saw an Elite with dampers punched through the turrets. Incidentally, the myth of glass-fibre being lighter than steel for building cars is borne out by the fact that my Elan +2 weighed significantly more than my Opel Manta GTE, certainly more than the weight of the backbone chassis.

[Rupertlt1]

Some evidence:

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

Didn't Lotus change from Maximar to Bristol for body supplier as a result of this sort of thing?

 

Can somebody repost the photograph that started this thread? Much of the discussion is now pointless. 

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 29 October 2018 - 11:27.

[RobMk2a]

Its Roger Nathan in the Autosport World Cup. The white Elite was registered 8 MPG. (No. 12 is AT Foster in Dick Jacobs MG Midget). I think this is Roger's first Elite which was crashed at Brands Hatch in 1962. It was rebuilt with a new CBU for 1963 this was painted Jaguar Blue and still registered 8 MPG.  (See Roger's book - Roger Nathan An Adventurous Life) Rob 

 

Note Roger was entered as part of the British B Team, there was a British A Team and Dutch Team but apparently no German Team. 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

See link to Revs - Roger Nathan is seen driving an Elite 60 TPD at Autosport 3 hours 29th Sept 1962 - is this Paddy McNally's car which was lent to Roger after the Brands Hatch crash? 
 

[pmurray]

Hi Rupert,

 

Maximar were a boat-building company with a good reputation for fibreglass hulls.  Dennis Ortenburger in his book “The Lotus Elite” mentions that Maximar did have some early quality problems with seams delaminating and differentials breaking loose but that once the structural flaws were corrected Maximar bodies were the lightest of all shells.  The change to Bristol came when Chapman was chasing cost reductions and Maximar were having to devote extra hours to perfecting their product.  Dennis mentioned that a few years after they ended making shells for Lotus Maximar closed.  The contract was then given (circa late 1959 / early 1960?) to Bristol Plastics, a division of Bristol Aircraft which had some automotive experience but their early shells had differential boxes that were incorrectly laid up and diffs were tearing out.  The problem was corrected and Bristol shells were probably the strongest but heaviest and the finish was better.

[David Birchall]

Some evidence:

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

Didn't Lotus change from Maximar to Bristol for body supplier as a result of this sort of thing?

 

Can somebody repost the photograph that started this thread? Much of the discussion is now pointless. 

 

RGDS RLT

I will see if I can find my copy of the photo-I cannot find the scan.

[ed holly]

Elite EB1405 has been in my care now for some years after buying it from John Partridge in Canberra. I am sure it was raced in period as it had all the hallmarks needed, close ratio MG gearbox, Alloy calipers all round, big fuel filler, lowish diff ratio. Here is what I guess was the registration certificate for the car before it left the UK. Does anyone recognise a name there that might be associated with racing. One strange thing someone did was to put a bulge in the bonnet along with a NACA duct - the bulge was to clear some Solex carbies, why anyone would use Solexes I have no idea. Any help greatly appreciated. Also a before and after shot of the car. Although the car in the before shot is white, I think is was a lavender colour from the factory, so it may have raced either lavender or white. Note the bulge in the bonnet, which was blanked off. The before shot doesn't show quite extensive damage done at Lakeside about 30 years ago and it didn't turn a wheel under its own power till about a year ago.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ed holly, 03 November 2018 - 06:59.

[Peter Morley]

That is indeed an old UK registration document - known as a buff log book because of its colour.

 

Climax only sold engines with SU carbs, so Webers were fitted after they had sold the engine (either by Lotus or a subsequent owner).

Presumably Solexs were fitted because they were available/cheaper than Webers and thought to be an improvement on SUs, which is probably true.

[RobMk2a]

Elite EB1405 has been in my care now for some years after buying it from John Partridge in Canberra. I am sure it was raced in period as it had all the hallmarks needed, close ratio MG gearbox, Alloy calipers all round, big fuel filler, lowish diff ratio. Here is what I guess was the registration certificate for the car before it left the UK. Does anyone recognise a name there that might be associated with racing. One strange thing someone did was to put a bulge in the bonnet along with a NACA duct - the bulge was to clear some Solex carbies, why anyone would use Solexes I have no idea. Any help greatly appreciated. Also a before and after shot of the car. Although the car in the before shot is white, I think is was a lavender colour from the factory, so it may have raced either lavender or white. Note the bulge in the bonnet, which was blanked off. The before shot doesn't show quite extensive damage done at Lakeside about 30 years ago and it didn't turn a wheel under its own power till about a year ago.

 

 

 

 

Ed - do you have the name of the first owner(s). Rob 

[Rupertlt1]

Have you checked with the Elite Register?

 

EWROwners@comcast.net

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 November 2018 - 18:05.

[Garsted]

I see from the log book that at some point it had a 1488cc engine. Would that be an FWB? May that also explain the added lump in the bonnet? ( I don't know if the FWB was taller).

 

Steve

[Bloggsworth]

Bob Curl built an Elite for himself in 63/64 with a 1500 Ford engine, painted mid-green with a white roof. Last time I saw it it was on the Kelvadon forecourt. He later built a couple of twin-cam Elites, one for himself and one for Mike Adda who used it to win the Motoring News Championship in IIRC 1971, beating a raft of 23Bs McLarens and others - I wonder where they are now?

Edited by Bloggsworth, 03 November 2018 - 19:55.