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Why do people call Lewis the First Black Driver...?


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#1 Lorran

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:23

... in f1? To me colour makes no difference. However, it is obvious to those who know mixed race people that Montoya is part black.

Lewis is half black and half white and in all likelihood he is just as black as Montoya.

How is it that the media has completely ignored Montoya and is focusing on Lewis?

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#2 The Kanisteri

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:24

I like to add there were lot of black drivers in F1 early 50's.
Especially after the GP.

#3 Clatter

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:28

Because when they refer to black, what they really mean is Afro/Caribbean. I think JPM would have been classed as Latino. Karthikeyan is classed as Asian.

It's all a load of BS.

#4 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:28

you really cant see the difference?

Posted Image

Posted Image

#5 Dudley

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:30

Hamilton is not in any rational sense "black".

But then neither is Hallie "First white woman to be first black woman to win an oscar" Berry.

#6 The Kanisteri

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:36

Originally posted by Dudley

But then neither is Hallie "First white woman to be first black woman to win an oscar" Berry.


I had to check if you were wrong. Michael Jackson has won Emmy and Grammy awards, never Oscar. So you were right! :lol:

#7 clampett

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:41

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
you really cant see the difference?

Posted Image

Posted Image


I see two differences:

1. One of the pictures is black and white, the other is colorized
2. One picture portrays JPM, the other portays Hamilton

#8 jokuvaan

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:48

Karthikeyan aint from Beverly Hills either.

#9 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:51

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#10 jonpollak

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:54

Originally posted by Dudley
Hamilton is not in any rational sense "black".

So then...by "black" you mean a ghetto livin, crack smokin',hoe slappin', rap listnin',child abusin' nigger?


Jp

#11 Lorran

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:56

Montoya clearly has afro/hispanic ancestory

#12 Lorran

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 14:57

Originally posted by jonpollak

So then...by "black" you mean a ghetto livin, crack smokin',hoe slappin', rap listnin',child abusin' nigger?



Jp


Look i didnt want this topic to degenerate into rude and abusive behaviour.

#13 lustigson

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:03

Originally posted by Lorran
Why do people call Lewis the First Black Driver...?

And why is it important? :confused:

#14 SoBizarre

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:11

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
you really cant see the difference?

http://wildsoft.ru/i... Juan Pablo.jpg

http://www.renaultsp...ltonbahrain.JPG



Why don't you buy yourself some webspace, where you'll be paying for bandwidth. Then you can post all the pictures you want, and watch your bandwidth being eaten up with every showing of this topic.

What you doing now is simply LAME.

#15 Rich

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:12

In the context of an international sport that aspires to represent its fan base, it is important. Just like it was important for Tiger, Calvin Peete and others to compete on the US pro golf tour. It's a sport for the people of that country, and black people form a significant percentage of that population. A pro tour without any black players is a skewed situation. I'm not saying representation should be strictly by quota, but it is important to have some kind of representation.

I agree that it shouldn't be made into a big deal, and Lewis' skin colour shouldn't receive more attention than his driving ability. But it's nevertheless good to see it happening.

#16 Cosmograph

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:17

Well, Tiger Woods is equally Asian/Thai from this mothers side. Has anyone ever referred to him as "Asian".

Same with Naomi Campbell IIRC. Realistically, people see what they want to see. In this case, Lewis can be "claimed" by a certain minority as representing their aspirations. Its good to see that people are offered opportunities based upon talent alone. Although, being British is certainly a huge factor in his favour IMO.

#17 Jordan191

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:17

Why is Lewis being 'black' even relevant in a global realm where we've had Indians, Malaysians, countless Orientals , etc for years.

What are we just waiting for him to make a Black Panther sign on the podium or something?

#18 Fortymark

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:20

First "Black" driver should be a fellow from Ghana or Nigeria etc.
Lewis is british and not even 100% "black" :drunk:

#19 vitivati

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:29

Great, it has now been proven that Lewis is not black!

White power!! :drunk:

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#20 Keir

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:37

By "Black", you must mean of the negroid race ??

One of the three races on this planet Earth, the others being, caucasian and mogoloid.

..... but as time has gone on, people from one race have co-mingled with others of different races creating this relatively new obsession of pigeon holeing people into groups and subgroups.

For me it's all "much ado about nothing."

When asked what race one belongs to, one should reply HUMAN.

And let's leave it like that !!!

#21 Rich

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:42

Originally posted by Jordan191
Why is Lewis being 'black' even relevant in a global realm where we've had Indians, Malaysians, countless Orientals , etc for years.


Because not all non-whites are lumped into one generic category. The Japanese have a long history of involvement in international motor sports, both on the technical side and with drivers/riders. Blacks have neither. When was the last time an African engine or chassis powered a car or bike to victory in a GP?

Same deal with India. Thus, blacks and Indians competing at the highest levels in motor sports is somewhat different from a Japanese team, manufacturer or driver/rider.

It's not about skin colour, it's about introducing the sport to new cultures, and reflecting those cultures within the sport. The Japanese are hardly a 'new' culture in F1. Blacks and Indians certainly are. It's encouraging to see them reflected in the sport.

For the same reason, I think it was important for Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, Denny Hulme, Chris Amon, Jody Scheckter and other Aus/NZ/SA drivers to break into F1 in the past. It wasn't about them being white. It was about the appeal of a European sport spreading to new cultures/regions of the world, and those regions/cultures in turn seeing themselves reflected in the sport.

Going beyond motor racing, it is great to see countries like Canada and the Netherlands competing in the cricket world cup. It's not necessarily about skin colour, but about the sport building a wider pool of participants.

Lewis may not be a pukka African. But he is black, and thus may inspire a whole bunch of African kids to try out a sport which, until now, had seemed off-limits to them. If F1 (and motor sports in general) want to have genuinely global appeal, then they need to reflect the target market.

#22 Oblivion

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:44

I think it's just to raise the interest of the people non addicted to racing before. As for me Lewis is as black as Mindland F1 was Russian...

#23 carbonfibre

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 15:50

Exactly.

I think 99,9% of the F1 viewers do not care about the fact that Hamilton is black or white etc. I want to see good and fast drivers.

#24 jonpollak

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:01

Originally posted by Lorran


Look i didnt want this topic to degenerate into rude and abusive behaviour.


Sorry...just tired of myopic racists
Jp

#25 Timstr11

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:02

You guys are forgetting one extremely important thing:
How the man identifies himself.

In all interviews he identifies himself as black. Period.

#26 RDM

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:05

Originally posted by carbonfibre
Exactly.

I think 99,9% of the F1 viewers care about the fact that Hamilton is black or white etc. I want to see good and fast drivers.

I presume you are missing the words "do not" after the word "viewers"?

If so, amen to that. Whilst it would be false to be so utterly PC that we go out of our way not to mention it, equally - and I agree with Ron Dennis for once - let's quickly acknowledge he has a different background from most F1 drivers...and then rapidly move on and concentrate ONLY on his various merits as a driver.

#27 Fortymark

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:09

What´s Ron new nickname for him....

#28 carbonfibre

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:17

Originally posted by RDM

I presume you are missing the words "do not" after the word "viewers"?

If so, amen to that. Whilst it would be false to be so utterly PC that we go out of our way not to mention it, equally - and I agree with Ron Dennis for once - let's quickly acknowledge he has a different background from most F1 drivers...and then rapidly move on and concentrate ONLY on his various merits as a driver.

Hehe yes i forgot the "do not" after the viewers. :) I will fix it.

#29 RDM

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:17

Originally posted by Fortymark
What´s Ron new nickname for him....

Is this the opening line for a joke?

(Although many of your posts could arguably be placed in that same category) :)

#30 Lorran

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:18

Originally posted by Timstr11
You guys are forgetting one extremely important thing:
How the man identifies himself.

In all interviews he identifies himself as black. Period.


Good point, but actually in terms of the media that has been proven irrelevant.

I say that because Tiger Woods made the point to the media that "i am not black". he was pointing out his mixed heritage. He was completely ignored!

For the purposes of this discussion I'll admit that I too am mixed race. For me it doesn't matter that I'm classified as black, its completely fine. In fact the point of this topic wasn't even about whether Lewis should be classified as anything other than black.

The point is that Montoya is afro/hispanic (I'm pretty sure of this) and it isn't a media issue. Whereas with Hamilton, 90% of the interview's so far, the question is always asked, ..."how does it feel to be the first black driver...?" Its putting unnecessary pressure on Lewis and it's not fair or even accurate.

#31 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:23

Originally posted by Rich


Lewis may not be a pukka African. But he is black, and thus may inspire a whole bunch of African kids to try out a sport which, until now, had seemed off-limits to them.



I had no idea motorsport suddenly became affordable.

#32 BorderReiver

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:27

It all depends on how you define "black".

I think the most widespread definition of the word is of someone who is, in a large percentage of his/her hereditory, of Afro-Carribean ancestry.

Mr Hamilton complies with that definition, and more importantly (as Timstr11 pointed out) he would define himself as such.

So, yes, he's black. Which might upset certain people on this thread who seem to think that only white kids can drive and have to actually label a Formula One driver as white (in the towering face of logic and reason) just to appease your latent racism.

You guys must have horrendously expensive laundry bills for all those white robes and hoods . . .

#33 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:33

Lets face it guys. Motorsport has always been a sport for white people. Therefore for a black person to break into the ranks will generate some interest.
I remember way back in the 80s when Willy T Ribbs was touted as a prospective F1 driver and a lot of interest was generated because of the fact that he was black..I guess he just wasn't good enough.

I am black BTW. :)

#34 BorderReiver

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:35

Originally posted by Fatgadget
Lets face it guys. Motorsport has always been a sport for white people. Therefore for a black person to break into the ranks will generate some interest.
I remember way back in the 80s when Willy T Ribbs was touted as a prospective F1 driver and a lot of interest was generated because of the fact that he was black..I guess he just wasn't good enough.

I am black BTW. :)


Whatever happened to Willy T Ribbs? I sort of lost track of him after that nasty accident involving one of his mechanics. It would be interesting to know where he ended up.

Incidentally, and just out of interest Fatgadget, as a black guy, would you define Hamilton as black? And how about Montoya (who I'd define as Hispanic)?

#35 F1Johnny

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:43

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Whatever happened to Willy T Ribbs? I sort of lost track of him after that nasty accident involving one of his mechanics. It would be interesting to know where he ended up.

Incidentally, and just out of interest Fatgadget, as a black guy, would you define Hamilton as black? And how about Montoya (who I'd define as Hispanic)?


Not Fatgadget, but have similar "qualifications".

I would define Hamilton as black and I agree with your take on Montoya.

I find it more interesting that Lewis has Caribbean roots as I am from Jamaica, but that's it. Many of our motosports guys here are white or at least appear white, but if they made it to F1, I would be just as excited.

#36 jonpollak

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:44

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



I had no idea motorsport suddenly became affordable.

:lol:
Well...If Jutta swerves off the road into an encampment and the first person to get to her is an African Sports Minister...
I am sure they will pull that perennially smiling kid in the bright yellow tee shirt behind the wheel for a photo op before they agree to pull her out of the side of the village.

Jp

#37 mclarensmps

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:46

I'm sorry to break it to you guys, but simply put:

Lewis' skin colour is black and, therefore, he is referred to as black.

What his heritage may be, doesnt even matter.

When people begin to judge others by their skin colour, they couldnt care less whether they were half albino half nigerian, or whatever.

Simply put, it is difficult for a person of that skin colour to break into what are regarded as the "elite" ranks of predominantly "white" monopolized professionals.

Therefore, having someone like Hamilton, with black skin colour, break into the ranks of F1 IS a big deal for everyone, and in a good way.

#38 BorderReiver

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:50

Originally posted by F1Johnny


Not Fatgadget, but have similar "qualifications".

I would define Hamilton as black and I agree with your take on Montoya.

I find it more interesting that Lewis has Caribbean roots as I am from Jamaica, but that's it. Many of our motosports guys here are white or at least appear white, but if they made it to F1, I would be just as excited.


Cheers Johnny, game set and match as far as I'm concerned :D.

#39 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:51

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Whatever happened to Willy T Ribbs? I sort of lost track of him after that nasty accident involving one of his mechanics. It would be interesting to know where he ended up.

Incidentally, and just out of interest Fatgadget, as a black guy, would you define Hamilton as black? And how about Montoya (who I'd define as Hispanic)?


To be honest with you I just consider him as Lewis Hamilton. An Englishman whose father is black and his mother is white.
As for Montoya,well,he is a Latino isn't he? :D

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#40 Dudley

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:54

Originally posted by jonpollak


Sorry...just tired of myopic racists
Jp


You're the only one to make a racist comment in this thread.

Originally posted by Rich
I'm not saying representation should be strictly by quota, but it is important to have some kind of representation.


No it isn't.

It's important to try and have the best 22 drivers in the world.

Anything else is completely 100% irrelevent as an aim.

Lewis' skin colour is black and, therefore, he is referred to as black.


No, it's light brown.

Simply put, it is difficult for a person of that skin colour to break into what are regarded as the "elite" ranks of predominantly "white" monopolized professionals.


Yes, being funded for the last 12 years by Mercedes must have been hell.

#41 rce

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:59

Originally posted by Dudley

Originally posted by Rich
I'm not saying representation should be strictly by quota, but it is important to have some kind of representation.


No it isn't.

It's important to try and have the best 22 drivers in the world.

Anything else is completely 100% irrelevent as an aim.



Agreed.

#42 Haribo

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 16:59

Originally posted by F1Johnny


Not Fatgadget, but have similar "qualifications".

I would define Hamilton as black and I agree with your take on Montoya.

I find it more interesting that Lewis has Caribbean roots as I am from Jamaica, but that's it. Many of our motosports guys here are white or at least appear white, but if they made it to F1, I would be just as excited.


Agreed - as a black person myself I take the point that in a perfect world it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. However, there will be people from the black community who up until now have had no interest in Formula One who may suddendly decide to sit down and watch a race to watch how "the new black guy" gets on.

As a result it may stir an interest in members of the community - including those with money ;) to either seek out motorsport of some sort or encourage a company with roots in the black community to take up sponsorship of a driver.

Just as a side note - my Dad had never watched a game of golf in his life before Tiger appeared on the scene. He's thinking of getting himself clubs and lessons when he retires now.....

#43 BorderReiver

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:00

Originally posted by Dudley


You're the only one to make a racist comment in this thread.



No it isn't.

It's important to try and have the best 22 drivers in the world.

Anything else is completely 100% irrelevent as an aim.



No, it's light brown.



Yes, being funded for the last 12 years by Mercedes must have been hell.


So, tell us again, why isn't he black? (And Miss Berry for that matter).

Perhaps you'd like to write him a letter explaining that he's labouring under a delusion while you're at it?

#44 Rich

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:08

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I had no idea motorsport suddenly became affordable.


Karting is affordable.

#45 nestor

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:11

Originally posted by Lorran


Good point, but actually in terms of the media that has been proven irrelevant.

I say that because Tiger Woods made the point to the media that "i am not black". he was pointing out his mixed heritage. He was completely ignored!

For the purposes of this discussion I'll admit that I too am mixed race. For me it doesn't matter that I'm classified as black, its completely fine. In fact the point of this topic wasn't even about whether Lewis should be classified as anything other than black.

The point is that Montoya is afro/hispanic (I'm pretty sure of this) and it isn't a media issue. Whereas with Hamilton, 90% of the interview's so far, the question is always asked, ..."how does it feel to be the first black driver...?" Its putting unnecessary pressure on Lewis and it's not fair or even accurate.


So what is your point here , Montoya being afro/hispanic or lewis being black?

Who cares , and for your info , there is no such thing as afro/ hispanic , JPM is latin, period; and here is the US ( the world's capital of racism), there is no black hispanics, they call us "browns", and yes there is a diference between skin color of a black and a brown hispanic, black is more dark and flat color and the hair is pretty much afro all the time, hispanic browns are a bit ligther with flat hair most of the time, so ther you have it , anyway who cares about all that color crap , as long as they drive as fast as they can , is all good with me.

#46 mclarensmps

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:14

Dudley, the fact is that even if Mercedes chose to support and fund him, they chose to support and fund a black person (or light brown as you refer to it :confused: ) over a whole bunch of other white people.

I say kudos to them for doing it, regardless of how insecure a few people on here are thinking that others may be questioning whether THEY ARE PERSONALLY racist or not (and im sure nobody is doing that, so nobody has to sit here and justify themselves), the fact is, Mercedes gave Hamilton an opportunity that no black person has ever gotten before in F1 - atleast to my knowledge (and if someone else has gotten such an opportunity, i am not privy of it, but i dont claim to know everything).

So regardless of this, "we need 22 of the best drivers in the world on here" bs (Alex Yoong anyone?), F1 is either run by exceptionally talented people (MS, KR, FA to name a few), those who have made a name for themselves in another series (JV, JPM, MA etc) those who can dish out wads of cash for a drive regardless of whether it is out of their own pocket or if has been sponsorship (AY, TS - sort of, NK etc), those who have ancestry to boot (NPjr, NR etc), or a combination of these things. So far, none of these people have been black (said: light brown...).

By your logic Tiger Woods is also "light brown", why was it so difficult for him to work his way up the ranks before he finally got his break (and then proceeded to steamroll his mark on the game)?

Nobody is saying that racism exists on this board, however, in the professional world, it DOES exist, no matter how hard we try to convince ourselves that it doesnt.

#47 Rich

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:19

Originally posted by Dudley

No it isn't.

It's important to try and have the best 22 drivers in the world.

Anything else is completely 100% irrelevent as an aim.


Which is precisely why it's important to have kids from as many countries as possible competing. Otherwise they're not the best 22 drivers in the world. They're only the best 22 drivers from countries actively involved in F1 development.

#48 carbonfibre

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:48

Nono.

If someone is good he wil get into F1. Ofcourse it will be far more difficult to do that from non european contries. But still i can't see why having 22 differnent country drivers should help F1.

i want too see the best, i don't care where they are from.

#49 mclarensmps

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:52

....which is all well and good, but when a new avenue to entry is opened up, then a new basketful of potential talentpools also opens up. It just needs that first breakthrough, and this is what this particular instant is.

#50 HBoss

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 17:57

Because they have nothing else to do.