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Why do people call Lewis the First Black Driver...?


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#101 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 04:05

after 3 pages I can't wait any longer for someone to throw this in the ring

I would say Lewis is a mulatto
Yeah I'm ignant

Lewis is not black
he shares nothing with the majority of black peoples except that one of his parents is black

Sadly whether or not you are willing to state your true feelings or hide behind a veil of correctness, Lewis has nothing in common with most black men. Sure there are many great and well educated black men in the world, unfortunately most of them are not afforded the socio-economic benefits their light skin brothers have like Tiger Woods.
Look around the world Name some high profile black men (alive) besides Coffi Annan, Desmond Tuttu, Nelson Mandella,
Guys like Colin Powell slip through because you don't really know and you are afraid to ask because it shouldn't make a difference either way,
so by my rules
Colin Powell is not black
Al Sharpton/ Jessie Jackson are
Danny Ongias is not black
Willy T Ribbs is black
(ps to the person that question what happened to WTR ...he ran over a corner marshal running across the track and killed him
after that event he was unheard of for 5-6 years and did a short lived comeback if you will in the late nineties I believe ... I'll go as far as saying that in his carer he was replaced by none other that Dale Ernhardt himself for not showing up for a few tests!)

you can email me personally and have me decide for you if an individual qualifies as black or not

I'm not Italian because my daddy is and my last name ends in a vowel
I am American and I am white

Lewis Hamilton is British and he is a mulatto
or if you would like to be inert he of mixed race
anyone who says he's black is trying to leverage him for an agenda... :drunk:

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#102 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 04:24

Originally posted by Dudley
It's important to try and have the best 22 drivers in the world.


Since when did F1 have the best 22 racing drivers in the world!

It has 22 racing drivers who have done well enough out of the bunch drivers who from karts have gone through the European formula system F. Renault/F 3/F3000 GP2/dodgy Euro F3000 (Massa) or through the America formula system F. Atlantic/Indy Lights pre-200x whatever/CART(OWRS), and have worked suitably with their engineer to devise competent set-ups that suit their formula driving and have demonstrated excellent formula car technique.

As to whether their peak driving excellence is superior or inferior to sprint car champions for example is unclear, as to whether they jump into DTM and are bettered by non-F1ers with superior DTM car technique and set-ups seems to happen, in fact it's not even clear that they are the best of the formula drivers and are not bettered by those who were unable to progress beyond Bulgarian Formula Vee due to bugetary concerns for example.

#103 PassWind

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 04:40

Originally posted by BorderReiver


You're disgusting.



Some find it equally disturbing that Lewis is keyholed into certain group. He is British of African decent. Kevin Peiterson is British he is also from the region known as Africa.

Would the British people stand up and applaud a white guy being their number one 100m sprinter because of the rarity of his skin color in the national squad? As someone white who has been groomed to run in a sport where his color is the minority at the highest echelon, no they wouldn't they would focus on his skills, as we should of Lewis, again it does not matter that he is Black as you like to call him. Did Yoong get so much attention about his racial background no, did Narain no. It was purely about national boundries a guy from Maylasia a guy from India. I just cannot see how some people who are of African decent would simply not feel patronised about the whole deal.

Yes I find the carry on about the whole deal a little offensive myself. Oh BTW just because British think that the only Black people are of African/Carribean decent, does not make it universally so. The definition the British use is colloquial which is one in the same so I don't know why the Carribean inflection is there unless of course his forebears were from a Carib Indian/Negroe union which would make him Indian by definition, another first.

Again I should refer you to history and maybe you go and have a real good look at just what Moor means and where the word Negroe came from and just exactly if that really meant skin color specifically, because it doesn't and if children were more informed about their origins from a far earlier age there would be much less racial bigotry in the world including asinine media reporting which pretends to serve some barrier breaker. That you cannot understand that the term Black does not have the same universal understanding it is a little disappointing. If the media just said he is the first driver of Negroe decent then fine, black is derogatory in some countries yet politically correct in others.

The term Black has been used throughout Asia and the Pacific to refer to certain ethnic groups, there is no down payment on the term. It is used in Australia and is derogatory, it is incorrect under the model you got the word from the Age of Enlightenment where African were Blacks and Aboriginals were Browns.

Dravidians could also claim to own the term black, they are Indians BTW and if Narain has any Dravidian blood in him, if you use the US one drop rule then he was the first black driver in F1. In some countries people who are dark, colored or non white are Blacks so accordingly there have been many black people in F1.

Again you accussed me of lumping people into two categories when the issue of what is Black is simply stupid and not worth arguing about as we are all from the same stock in some point in history more than likely from a dark skinned group. It was a stupid claim by British press ignorant of the World and the fact F1 is international not knowing it would not go unoticed. By numerous other definitions he is not the first black F1 driver. The British can believe what they want, I would just like to see him race hard and win if he is good enough an impressive young man.

Now we have that all out of the way I prefer to see the world this way as put by Owen ‘Alik Shahadah "as a political term it was fiery and trendy but never was it an official racial classification of peoples who have a 120,000 year old history. Indians are from India, Chinese from China. There is no country called Blackia or Blackistan. Hence, the ancestry-nationality model is more respectful and accurate: African-American, African-British, African-Brazilian, and African-Caribbean." 'Alik Shahadah also objects that "in addition, because it is a term placed on us, we have no bases for its control, and hence they are able to say; 'Ancient Egyptians weren't black.' Black has no meaning; except the meaning they place on it, if and when they chose."

So Lewis is African-British as he was born there and so was his dad, his Grand Parents are African-Carribean, but anyway the Media got its money's worth out of it and its quite disgusting. That his skin is dark makes not a difference.

I do not like the term Black as it is a label as decribed above that is not sensitive to cultural background, how would white people like to be simply called whites its rude and outdated. Its not fear of racism its ensuring former peoples subjected to racisim are addressed accordingly as I would like to be addressed accordingly. Thats its accepted lingo in Britian does not certainly mean it is accepted the World over.

#104 PassWind

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 04:44

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc
after 3 pages I can't wait any longer for someone to throw this in the ring

I would say Lewis is a mulatto
Yeah I'm ignant

Lewis is not black
he shares nothing with the majority of black peoples except that one of his parents is black

Sadly whether or not you are willing to state your true feelings or hide behind a veil of correctness, Lewis has nothing in common with most black men. Sure there are many great and well educated black men in the world, unfortunately most of them are not afforded the socio-economic benefits their light skin brothers have like Tiger Woods.
Look around the world Name some high profile black men (alive) besides Coffi Annan, Desmond Tuttu, Nelson Mandella,
Guys like Colin Powell slip through because you don't really know and you are afraid to ask because it shouldn't make a difference either way,
so by my rules
Colin Powell is not black
Al Sharpton/ Jessie Jackson are
Danny Ongias is not black
Willy T Ribbs is black
(ps to the person that question what happened to WTR ...he ran over a corner marshal running across the track and killed him
after that event he was unheard of for 5-6 years and did a short lived comeback if you will in the late nineties I believe ... I'll go as far as saying that in his carer he was replaced by none other that Dale Ernhardt himself for not showing up for a few tests!)

you can email me personally and have me decide for you if an individual qualifies as black or not

I'm not Italian because my daddy is and my last name ends in a vowel
I am American and I am white

Lewis Hamilton is British and he is a mulatto
or if you would like to be inert he of mixed race
anyone who says he's black is trying to leverage him for an agenda... :drunk:




Well according to British census you are correct he is of mixed race, like Tiger Woods. Anywho wack a label on him anyway and see how much you can run with it in the media, Danica Patrick anyone?

#105 Deeq

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 05:41

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001


....Mexicans are from Arabs and so on...

More on the "so on" please :p ;)

I thought I knew at least little but nix...:stoned:

#106 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 08:30

Originally posted by Deeq

More on the "so on" please :p ;)

I thought I knew at least little but nix...:stoned:


Well it's quite simple, there are four fundamental human races on the planet. Over the millenia they've mixed with each other, broken off and estabblished their 'own' races. For example, I'm from the Kashmir region of Pakistan, I have pale white skin and green eyes but I have dark hair. I'm probably a product of original Semites (Arabs) whose blood lines spilled out from Arabia and throughout the world; thus making up my 'Pakistani' features but I've also probably got some European blood in me, probably as a result of Alexander the Great's men raping, having sex with some great great relative of mine and that has spilled down. Now my family consider themselves Pakistani's, but when half of my family have blonde hair and blue eyes and live IN Pakistan, you've really got to wonder! :lol:

Basically no one race is entirely pure. 85% of Israeli's came from a land called Khazaria (on the doorsteps of Russia, near Chechnya and Ingusheta, so they were basically white) and were conveted en mass to Judaism under the Kagan in the 7th or 8th Centuries and made up Europe's Jewry as they migrated out. Now many of them are settled in Israeli and call themselves 'Semitic' despite a large proportion of them being as white as a sheet! :lol:

If you dont believe me, there's a book called 'The Thirteenth Tribe' by a man called Arthur Koestler dedicated to the entire subject. Very good read.

#107 Timstr11

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 09:06

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc
after 3 pages I can't wait any longer for someone to throw this in the ring

I would say Lewis is a mulatto
Yeah I'm ignant

Lewis is not black
he shares nothing with the majority of black peoples except that one of his parents black


Sadly whether or not you are willing to state your true feelings or hide behind a veil of correctness, Lewis has nothing in common with most black men. Sure there are many great and well educated black men in the world, unfortunately most of them are not afforded the socio-economic benefits their light skin brothers have like Tiger Woods.
Look around the world Name some high profile black men (alive) besides Coffi Annan, Desmond Tuttu, Nelson Mandella,
Guys like Colin Powell slip through because you don't really know and you are afraid to ask because it shouldn't make a difference either way,
so by my rules
Colin Powell is not black
Al Sharpton/ Jessie Jackson are
Danny Ongias is not black
Willy T Ribbs is black
(ps to the person that question what happened to WTR ...he ran over a corner marshal running across the track and killed him
after that event he was unheard of for 5-6 years and did a short lived comeback if you will in the late nineties I believe ... I'll go as far as saying that in his carer he was replaced by none other that Dale Ernhardt himself for not showing up for a few tests!)

you can email me personally and have me decide for you if an individual qualifies as black or not

I'm not Italian because my daddy is and my last name ends in a vowel
I am American and I am white

Lewis Hamilton is British and he is a mulatto
or if you would like to be inert he of mixed race
anyone who says he's black is trying to leverage him for an agenda... :drunk:

These type of posts show how much prejudice there still is.

For you 'Black' is tied to someones socio-economic status.
Is that your definition of Black?
This is serious stereotyping.

Disgusting.

For your Information: Lewis identifies himself as Black.
Who are you to deny that?

#108 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 10:37

Lewis Hamilton is obviously a very confident, ambitious and personable young man. His sheer chutzpah in approaching Ron Dennis at an early age is evidence of that.

He also appears to be a very good driver.

As Calorus pointed out, British black/mixed race/coloured/whatever youngsters have, up till now, seen music, football (plus cricket and athletics) as ambitions to achieve.

It's only in the last decade or so that we have seen the rise of a significantly influential "black middle class" as the children and grandchildren of the "Windrush generation" have reached that aspirational level in any numbers. Perhaps Lewis' father falls into that category - I really have no idea.

African football was mentioned. It wasn't until the late 1970s that "home-grown" non-white soccer players started appearing at the top level in any numbers: black faces were almost as rare on the terraces as on the field then, despite the fact that Arthur Wharton had been "the first black professional footballer" nearly a century before.

We've had black, mixed race and Asian cricketers in the England cricket team for many years.

I really don't see what difference Hamilton's colour makes. He's British, he's good and a potential GP winner. Good luck to the lad :up:

#109 tidytracks

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 11:08

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Lewis Hamilton is obviously a very confident, ambitious and personable young man. His sheer chutzpah in approaching Ron Dennis at an early age is evidence of that.

I really don't see what difference Hamilton's colour makes. He's British, he's good and a potential GP winner. Good luck to the lad :up:


:up: :up: smartest thing said in this thread for a long time

#110 Rich

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 11:58

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I really don't see what difference Hamilton's colour makes.


It shouldn't make any difference to you. However, that doesn't necessarily apply universally. One needs to look at Hamilton's rise through young black African eyes, not older WASP eyes.

#111 Powersteer

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 12:09

Originally posted by Bubu's
DANNY ONGAIS,THE FIRST BLACK DRIVER IN F1

How on earth can a Hawaiian native be black (african)??????

:cool:

#112 Rich

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 12:32

Originally posted by Vitesse2
African football was mentioned. It wasn't until the late 1970s that "home-grown" non-white soccer players started appearing at the top level in any numbers: black faces were almost as rare on the terraces as on the field then, despite the fact that Arthur Wharton had been "the first black professional footballer" nearly a century before.


Change is a process, not an event. At one time, all English league players were not only white, but British too. Now, you have a league that also features black British players, black African players, white and black Euro players, and players of all colours and creeds from all over the world. There is no single defining moment when that happened. It was a gradual process.

George Berry's appearance at Wolves was just one event in many that marked the change. Berry didn't cause the multicultural multilingual league you have today, but he (and his skin colour) wasn't insignificant either. He wasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, 'just another Wolves player, his skin colour was irrelevant'.

Likewise, Hamilton's appearance in F1 is just one event in a gradual change that will hopefully see F1 going from its Eurocentric roots to becoming a truly international sport.

#113 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 12:51

Except he is European. I think any Blacks/Africans who have the finances to go racing, won't suddenly realise they can go racing.

#114 Rich

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 13:26

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Except he is European. I think any Blacks/Africans who have the finances to go racing, won't suddenly realise they can go racing.


As I say, change is a process, not an event. The day after George Berry debuted for Wolves, English footie fans didn't wake up to a league with Russian team owners, Dutch and Portuguese managers, and fully international multiracial squads. It still took decades after that, marked by a series of small steps - Argentinians Ricky Villa and Ossie Ardiles becoming the first foreign players to be signed after WC78, Viv Anderson becoming the first black player to represent England, Paul Ince becoming the first black England captain, and so on.

None of these events, on their own, created a sea change in British football. But they were clear roadsigns that the British game was shifting away from its white/British-only roots towards a more reprsentative and open structure.

The F1 transition will also take decades. It's started with Bernie promoting places like China, Turkey and Bahrain as new GP venues. It'll go further with Hamilton entering the scene. Give it another five or ten years, and there may be a 100% African driver. Give it another ten years after that, and we may have an Indian engine supplier, a Chinese tyre supplier, an African gearbox manufacturer and an Indonesian chassis/aero facility. Give it another five years after that and a Kenyan or South Korean could be President of the FIA, with the global television rights belonging to a Mexican or New Zealander.

I'm not saying these things will necessarily happen, just that they might. I don't see that as a bad thing at all. If we want F1 to be the pinnacle of world motor racing, then let's make it a truly 'world' sport like football is.

#115 estoril85

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 13:42

is he quick?

#116 SilverS2000

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 14:06

Originally posted by Rich


It shouldn't make any difference to you. However, that doesn't necessarily apply universally. One needs to look at Hamilton's rise through young black African eyes, not older WASP eyes.


This is the smartest thing said in this thread.

#117 Cosmograph

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 14:16

Originally posted by Rich


Which is precisely why it's important to have kids from as many countries as possible competing. Otherwise they're not the best 22 drivers in the world. They're only the best 22 drivers from countries actively involved in F1 development.


F1 isn't exactly Football, where a child from any country, no matter how impoverished, only needs a ball and a dream ....

I'd argue that a talented young driver from a small country probably has a harder time breaking in vs. the same driver from UK, Germany, Italy, Brazil, etc.

What's important is that Lewis has talent and is from the UK. Make him Canadian and I'm not sure he would have gotten the support to advance through his career (through last of sponsor interest). Good luck to him (especially with Ronbo talking about PDR being able to step in mid season if they made a "mistake" with Lewis).

#118 FrankB

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 14:29

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread and perhaps this has already been posted...

Possibly the answer to the question "Why do people call Lewis the First Black Driver...?" is because he is the first F1 driver to call himself black.

#119 BorderReiver

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 14:42

Originally posted by FrankB
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread and perhaps this has already been posted...

Possibly the answer to the question "Why do people call Lewis the First Black Driver...?" is because he is the first F1 driver to call himself black.


Exactly

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#120 Timstr11

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 14:58

Originally posted by FrankB
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread and perhaps this has already been posted...

Possibly the answer to the question "Why do people call Lewis the First Black Driver...?" is because he is the first F1 driver to call himself black.

I've said that twice already :up:
Pointless thread.

#121 FrankB

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 15:07

Originally posted by Timstr11
I've said that twice already :up:

Like I said... I hadn't read every post in the thread.

Originally posted by Timstr11
Pointless thread.

From your post No 26 onwards... I couldn't agree more.

#122 Imperial

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 15:09

Originally posted by Rich


Conversely, why weren't there howls of protest when attention was drawn to Kubica's nationality?


How much has either driver struggled to get to F1? That's the question.

Lewis has an abundance of talent, his father/step-mother worked very hard to fund his sporting activities, then he was basically picked up by Mclaren at a very young age.

Mclaren apparently gave no financial assistance during his early career, but once his talent and success became apparent it is surely possible Mclaren started providing some financial assistance, whether in the way of a cheque here and there or by helping him out with sponsors. Ron has taken great pains to point out Lewis' colour has never been relevant to him, and based on Lewis' talent I have every reason to believe Ron. That means Lewis has never really had a huge struggle on his hands to rise to the top of the motorsport pile (in terms of reaching the perceived pinnacle of the varying formulae). His family may have worked hard for him, and I am sure they did, but they had the opportunities to do so.

Now take the example of Kubica.

This is a kid who grew up in what was still a Communist regime in the 1980's. Just because Poland is in the EU now, people tend to forget quite quickly that it's only a matter of years since Communism ended in Poland.

Having relatives from Poland, I know exactly how the regime used to operate. When Kubica was growing up there will simply have been no opportunities for his parents to amass large sums of money for him to go pursuing his motor racing dream. Kubica and his family must have faced a huge struggle, particularly in his early years, to try and help him achieve a career in motorsport. I have no idea how he did it, but he has done.

I think Kubica's story is even more amazing than Hamilton's. Lewis may be the first black/half-caste driver in F1, but it certainly can't be because others before him have not had the financial opportunities to do so, or the required skill, and F1 is certainly an "equal opportunities employer" - so there could never be suggestions that black men have not been made to feel welcome in F1.

As you said elsewhere Rich, maybe Lewis' entry to F1 will provide a big interest to what in my job we call BME communities (Black and Ethnic Minorities) and we may see a rise in numbers in maybe 10 years time (as kids will just be starting out after watching Lewis in F1).

In Robert's case, he is the first Polish F1 driver, simply because it has never ever been possible for a Polish man or woman to even have the chance to do it before. I can't even name one more Polish race driver at all after Robert.

What I like about both drivers is that neither of them has ever used their background to gain leverage or complain about any kind of struggle they may have had to endure.

I maintain Kubica's struggle, especially financially, must have been far far harder than Lewis', but it's still great to see drivers like this entering F1.

Hopefully long gone are the days when jokers like Pedro Diniz can enter F1 off the back of their fathers owning a supermarket chain.

#123 giacomo

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 16:46

A long and fruitless discussion.

Actually there are no such things like "black", "asian", "hispanic", "caucasian" or whatever races existent. All those classifications are racist.

Science knows only one race concerning mankind: Homo sapiens sapiens, the modern human race.

#124 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:03

Originally posted by Timstr11

These type of posts show how much prejudice there still is.

where is the prejudice in my rant
am I being prjudice if I say the woman with the wine stain on her face
or the guy with the glass eye?
so if I say the black guy that makes me prejudice or stereotyping?

For you 'Black' is tied to someones socio-economic status.
Is that your definition of Black?
This is serious stereotyping.

no that is not what I meant or said
what I was trying to parlay was
how does any one who is my defintion of black relate to Lewis
A wide nosed, purple brown skinned, large lipped black person has nothing in common with lewis other than being non white
Lewis is not opening any doors for what was refered to as a "blue gum" back in the days

Disgusting.

For your Information: Lewis identifies himself as Black.
Who are you to deny that?


Nobody... but if I were in his shoes I'd do the same... look what it did for tiger woods
if tiger woods worked the asian angle instead of the black thing do you think he would have gotten that first endorsement from nike for some 40 odd million

I'd like to appologize for using the term "blue gum" because most are sure to be offended by it simply for it's use being perpetuated in this forum
I simply used it here to make a point
if you are offended by it think of the image it conjures and not what it's use means to you

on this note
A Redbone will never commercially make it big time
A High Yellow will only open doors for other H.Y.'s
and a Blue Gum will only have carte blanche once the white race is itself mixed

now that sir that is

Disgusting.

stereotypical racially biased statement
...but it holds true nonetheless

I hope Lewis succeeds because of the oppurtunities afforded him on his way up makes it inevitable

I'd love to see a Will T Ribbs in F1 instead of a Scott Speed

Go to a regional drag race in the US and see how many Black racers and fans there are
and then look how many show up at the national level

the problem is a whole lot deeper than someone who is accepting of diversity and willing to make distictions in a persons ethnic/racial background
and the people who drive the economies who conjure up "political correctness" catch phrases and do nothing to advance the people they seemingly are trying to "help"

You want to know who is opening doors for "Blacks" and "Blacks" can relate to...

Serena and Venus Williams thats who
they are Blacker than Black in every stereotypical barometer that you can conjure up
thier attitude, thier dress, thier marketing schemes, thier language, etc...

they didn't come into the whitemans world of tennis to fit in they came into it to decimate it with thier own style and ways

Lewis is trying to pigeonhole himself in a whitemans world (F1) by fitting in and labeling himself "Black" in the process
thats my view
and for the record I love Black people and grew up in Newark New Jersey from 1965-1975 and then moved to Montreal North in at the time a largely Hatian neighborhood from 1975-80
so I spent my first 15 years in photos with more Black kids than white ones so if I was truely the person you think I am I'm be bloody and bruised over the years my friend
I don't get my views from the telly or the NYT best sellers list
they are from the mean streets of llife...

#125 kismet

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:15

[off-topic] The Williams sisters were a few decades late from being the ones to break the colour bar in women's professional tennis. Just saying. [/off-topic]

#126 MPea3

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:18

Wow. The things I've learned in this threads. People from the South Pacific are black. Never knew that. Mexicans are from Arabian decent. I guess I'll have to rethink that whole coming across the Bearing Straits from Asia thing.

This thread reminds me more of what normally goes on in the Paddock Club than here. People can't even agree on what "black" is, not to mention the cultural differences of what it means to use that word. I remember Buford once writing how he enjoyed the PC because of the differences in culture between everyone. For me, it's the reason to shy away from that forum, as for many, it seems to get in the way of any sort of meaningful discussion. Perhaps that may be the case when it comes to Lewis and his color.

I think that Lewis has done some wonderful stuff in making his way to F1, and I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops over the next couple of years. I could give a damn about his color, for me it matters as little as some of the opinions I've read here.

#127 F1Johnny

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:23

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc

where is the prejudice in my rant

what I was trying to parlay was
how does any one who is my defintion of black relate to Lewis
A wide nosed, purple brown skinned, large lipped black person has nothing in common with lewis other than being non white
Lewis is not opening any doors for what was refered to as a "blue gum" back in the days

A wide nosed, purple brown skinned, large lipped black person has nothing in common with lewis other than being non white

I see the prejudice. Do you really think that all black people fit that stereotype description? Frightening.

#128 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:25

Originally posted by kismet
[off-topic] The Williams sisters were a few decades late from breaking the colour bar in women's professional tennis. Just saying. [/off-topic]


i don't think it's OT and I appretiate you correcting my statement in order to make it more accurate

I am not familiar with that person but I am sure that they fit the mould of Arthur Ashe more then the Williams mold

and that was my point
that The Collin Powel's, the Arthur Ashe's, the Lewis' are not opening the doors that a Williams will open or a Willy Mays' may

they are opening that "grey area" door for other "grey area's"
they are not opening doors for black people

#129 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:27

Originally posted by F1Johnny
A wide nosed, purple brown skinned, large lipped black person has nothing in common with lewis other than being non white

I see the prejudice. Do you really think that all black people fit that stereotype description? Frightening.


no I don't think "they" all fit "that" stereotype
but my point is
Lewis Is Not Opening any doors for the Dark Nigerian with the slim frame, lips, and nose

thats why this thread is as bad as the one relating to Homosexuals

why am I posting here?
because I couldn't stand to watch the thread grow without anybody stepping up and say that

being Mulatto doesn't make you Black
it just makes you non-white

and being non-white doiesn't help anyone except you and your entourage bleed money from armchair sympathisers

#130 kismet

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:52

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc
I am not familiar with that person but I am sure that they fit the mould of Arthur Ashe more then the Williams mold

Althea Gibson's the name. She was black enough not to be allowed to participate in anything other than all-black tournaments until 1950.

#131 Lorran

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 17:53

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc


and being non-white doiesn't help anyone except you and your entourage bleed money from armchair sympathisers


Because of the complexity of the issues discussed here some of the realities are being lost.

The reason that Tiger was/is a marketing phenomenon and perhaps now Lewis as well was because they represent two great qualities: -

1. Being different, in a striking obvious way. But not in an exclusionist way either. Their presence says to "outsiders" from all races and socio-economic backgrounds that; yes i can make it in that sport. Despite labels Lewis and Tiger cannot be claimed totally by any one race but yet they are "familiar" to all. That makes them less threatening and "alien" and more acceptable to everyone. Perfect for inspiration and thus marketing.

2. In the case of Tiger (and hopefully with Lewis) mankind is fascinated with the observation of genius. In sport it is breathtaking and captivating. The observation of genius works regardless of colour, race or creed. N.B., Michael Jordon, Tiger, The Venus Sisters, Michael Schumacher, Senna, Pele, Maradona... the list goes on and on.

Truth be told most people struggle their entire lives, if not physically/financially, mentally. Sometimes entertainment and the dreams they engender is what enables people to get by. There is nothing wrong with this; we will all die in a relatively short time, all that matters is the enjoyment we find along the way.

#132 Cosmograph

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 18:05

Imperial,

Communism effectively ended in Poland in 1989. How old was Kubica at the time? A little boy. Since that time, we've seen more billionaires come from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union that anywhere else. I don't think that your example is a good one as I don't think that (unlike some drivers in the past) Lewis's parents were rolling in the money. Lewis seems likely to be the better prospect to me long term.

Lorran,

Golf was, with very few exceptions, whiter than white prior to Tiger's arrival. Being a prodigy, instant winner, and fairly good looking to boot, as well as a product of his age (read Nika marketing dollars) allowed him to break through to a level few will reach. I read yesterday that Tiger grossed $87 million USD this year :eek:

#133 connerz

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 18:20

Never knew that. Mexicans are from Arabian decent. I guess I'll have to rethink that whole coming across the Bearing Straits from Asia thing.



I understood it that Arab was not a racial term and that it refers to people who speak Arabic, which are many "races".

#134 WHITE

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 18:22

Originally posted by Lorran


Because of the complexity of the issues discussed here some of the realities are being lost.

The reason that Tiger was/is a marketing phenomenon and perhaps now Lewis as well was because they represent two great qualities: -

1. Being different, in a striking obvious way. But not in an exclusionist way either. Their presence says to "outsiders" from all races and socio-economic backgrounds that; yes i can make it in that sport. Despite labels Lewis and Tiger cannot be claimed totally by any one race but yet they are "familiar" to all. That makes them less threatening and "alien" and more acceptable to everyone. Perfect for inspiration and thus marketing.

2. In the case of Tiger (and hopefully with Lewis) mankind is fascinated with the observation of genius. In sport it is breathtaking and captivating. The observation of genius works regardless of colour, race or creed. N.B., Michael Jordon, Tiger, The Venus Sisters, Michael Schumacher, Senna, Pele, Maradona... the list goes on and on.

Truth be told most people struggle their entire lives, if not physically/financially, mentally. Sometimes entertainment and the dreams they engender is what enables people to get by. There is nothing wrong with this; we will all die in a relatively short time, all that matters is the enjoyment we find along the way.



:up:


Sir Horace Walpole, a noble englishman of the XVIII c. said:

" When a man strikes out originality by himself or in other words is a genious, the place of his birth has little claim on his merit "

#135 Imperial

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 18:52

Originally posted by Cosmograph
Imperial,

Communism effectively ended in Poland in 1989. How old was Kubica at the time? A little boy.


Communism certainly hadn't ended by that stage and even when it was gone in name, it still took a good while to have any effect on the country and even today the country has not moved on a massive amount - not through it's own fault.

And Kubica certiainly was a youungster towards the end of communism, but Poland isn't awash with money just because communism came to an end.

I don't suggest Lewis' parents were or are dripping in money, but they at least had the chance to take the best jobs they could find and work extra hours for double pay and so on.

Kubica's parents likely didn't have such opportunities available to them.

#136 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 18:57

Originally posted by Lorran

1. Being different, in a striking obvious way. But not in an exclusionist way either. Their presence says to "outsiders" from all races and socio-economic backgrounds that; yes i can make it in that sport. Despite labels Lewis and Tiger cannot be claimed totally by any one race but yet they are "familiar" to all. That makes them less threatening and "alien" and more acceptable to everyone. Perfect for inspiration and thus marketing.


I couldn't have said that ... but that is in essence my whole point
and lableing himself or being labled "Black" has no relevance to those that are, or are percieved as such.

#137 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 19:50

Originally posted by MPea3
Wow. The things I've learned in this threads. People from the South Pacific are black. Never knew that. Mexicans are from Arabian decent. I guess I'll have to rethink that whole coming across the Bearing Straits from Asia thing.


The Moors and the Arabs controlled much of Europe for centuries through conquering lands. They weren't allowed to bring their wives with to battles so copulated with, raped, or took European women as their women. They had children with them and their blood line was passed down and throughout Europe, especially the Moors in Spain. Then we've had the mass migrations to the Americas and the rest is history...

#138 BorderReiver

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 19:54

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001


The Moors and the Arabs controlled much of Europe for centuries through conquering lands. They weren't allowed to bring their wives with to battles so copulated with, raped, or took European women as their women. They had children with them and their blood line was passed down and throughout Europe, especially the Moors in Spain. Then we've had the mass migrations to the Americas and the rest is history...


Utter, utter bollocks. You think that's the reason Latin American's are as they are? Your grasp of history is tenuous at best (and you seem to taint it with revolting prejudice).

Surely the native Indian population of South and Central America had something to do with it, you witless eugenics clown.

:down:

#139 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:05

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Utter, utter bollocks. You think that's the reason Latin American's are as they are? Your grasp of history is tenuous at best (and you seem to taint it with revolting prejudice).

Surely the native Indian population of South and Central America had something to do with it, you witless eugenics clown.

:down:


Oh it's you again, the one who thought that NASCAR was better than F1. Bloody moron :lol:

Did I say ALL Mexicans came from Arabs? Did I? Where did I say that? I said alot of Mexicans came from Aran lineage. How is that utter bollocks? It is FACT! Did I also deny that the Aztecs had an involvment either? No. So again, where are you getting this from you imbecile? Learn to read just what is on the page, not a blinkered view of what 'might' be between the lines.

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#140 se7en_24

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:06

Originally posted by F1Johnny
A wide nosed, purple brown skinned, large lipped black person has nothing in common with lewis other than being non white

I see the prejudice. Do you really think that all black people fit that stereotype description? Frightening.

Oh didn't you read what he said F1Johnny?

He had black friends, in the 60s and 70s - he isn't racist!

#141 lustigson

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:08

Originally posted by Rich
I agree that it shouldn't be made into a big deal, and Lewis' skin colour shouldn't receive more attention than his driving ability. But it's nevertheless good to see it happening.

Exactly my point. :)

#142 BorderReiver

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:14

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001


Oh it's you again, the one who thought that NASCAR was better than F1. Bloody moron :lol:


Go and find me somewhere where I said that. Go on. It seems you're the one who can't read.

Did I say ALL Mexicans came from Arabs? Did I? Where did I say that? I said alot of Mexicans came from Aran lineage


Except they don't. Not even close.

How is that utter bollocks?


Because it is.

It is FACT!


No it isn't.

Did I also deny that the Aztecs had an involvment either?


You think all American Indians are Aztec? Just how stupid are you?

So again, where are you getting this from you imbecile?


From your ill-educated, racist, drivel.

Learn to read just what is on the page, not a blinkered view of what 'might' be between the lines.


I think it's pretty damn clear what's between the lines, you biggot.

#143 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:27

I must have missed the racism bit.

#144 BorderReiver

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:31

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I must have missed the racism bit.


That mexicans are mexicans because black guys raped Europen women?

#145 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:37

Originally posted by se7en_24
Oh didn't you read what he said F1Johnny?




would I be racist if I said most Chinese have eyes that were not round and their skin has a yellowish hue to it rather than a brown or reddish hue to a blind person or would it me trying to convey the subtle differences that while we are all alike we are still different

He had black friends, in the 60s and 70s - he isn't racist!


my point was I was raised around more blacks in my neighborhood than non- blacks
and went to schools that didn't reflect what my neighborhood was like at all
so yeah I was exposed to a little more of the realities of the demographics than your ivy league book reading white bread ass

oh and while you have me going don't anyone here tell me that you can't tell the difference between a european/ african black and a lot of american blacks

because the racism that I've seen exhibited by some/ most european/ african blacks against american blacks (in their own country (u.s.) is so appalling that anything I could conjure up here for your amusement/ wrath would be child's play

So if anyone could please attest to this we could keep this moving in a civil manner

#146 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:41

You've got street cred, we get it.

#147 Rexx Havoc

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:46

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You've got street cred, we get it.


how many people do you shiv per day with your wit ?

#148 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 20:49

Better men than you.

#149 se7en_24

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 21:14

Originally posted by Rexx Havoc

oh and while you have me going don't anyone here tell me that you can't tell the difference between a european/ african black and a lot of american blacks

What the hell are you on about? I can tell the difference between African people and West Indian (Caribbean) people from their accent, look and mannerisms just as I can tell an Australian from a Scotsman or an Indian from a Pakistani. But what is a european/african black? And how do they differ from 'American blacks' or Africans or West Indians? :rolleyes:

Sounds like you never actually left the 60's and 70's.

#150 primer

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 21:24

Originally posted by Rich


They don't currently have the means and opportunity, that's the exact problem. You are correct that funding is limited and is the main barrier. Which is why funders look for investments that are going to give them the best returns. Inevitably, they will go with precedent and invest where the most visible successes have occurred.

Boris Becker's success promoted tennis development in Germany. Bernhard Langer's success promoted golfing development. Tiger Woods' success promoted investment in black golfers, where previously they would have been encouraged to go into boxing, football, track and field or basketball. I've no doubt that Fernando's success will make it a lot easier for Spanish kids wanting to get into F1. One exceptional achievement can change the whole funding situation.


This is some fine reasoning. How will Lewis' promotion, who is British, to F1 help generate more sponsorship in Africa?