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Photos / cards identification problem


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#1 Mac1602

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 21:09

I'm collecting autographs and cards from F1 and other series. Friend send me package of cards from 1933 to 1977. From Finland

I've got some problems with:
Farina
http://ags.vdclan.co...e.php?&pos=-534
back: http://vdclan.com/F1.../FarinaBack.jpg
It's 99% not Monza 1950. Number like Monza 1951, but car is pre-september 1951

also there could be some errors with other photos. Look if you could :)
http://ags.vdclan.co...rch=Autourheilu

Thanks in advance

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#2 Mac1602

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 19:57

maybe it's too easy for you, but I really want to know...

Maybe it's Farina in Monza 1950 at Friday using Fagioli 36 car?

anyone?

#3 Rob G

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 23:40

I looked through the WDC races as well as the non-WDC races of 1950 & 51 and didn't see anything that matched. I thought it could also be a 38, but I didn't find anything with that number either. Sorry I can't be any help. :

#4 kevthedrummer

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 00:37

Originally posted by Mac1602
maybe it's too easy for you, but I really want to know...

Maybe it's Farina in Monza 1950 at Friday using Fagioli 36 car?

anyone?


That's the conclusion I've arrived at after some searching. I'm sure it's post-war because the car looks to have the extended exhaust. The only time it ran like this pre-war appears to be Tripoli in 1939.

#5 taylov

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 17:28

Is this Monza? The track surface looks very similar to the old Bremgarten circuit at Bern(e).

Farina was down in the programme to drive Maserati #38 in the 1948 Swiss GP.

However the Formula One Archive site records him as second on the start grid in a AR 158. I don't know my 158 from my 159, so can someone confirm if this could be a 1948 photo.

#6 Adam F

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 18:49

The photo is definitely Monza - I have several photos from 1949 of this section of track (copyright - so I can't post them) with the same surface and straw bales similarly placed.
From his driving attitude it is clearly Farina, so it must be the 1950 or 1951 Italian Grand Prix meeting.
The number on the car looks like either "36" or "38" Certainly not "32" or "34".
As has been said earlier, at the 1950 Italian GP, Fagioli's car was No. 36, this being the only Alfa with a race number in the "30s".
At the 1951 meeting (according to DSJ in Racing Car Review) all the cars were 159s with twin exhausts, with only de Graffenried's car (No. 36) being an earlier 159.
To my eye, the 159s used during 1951 had a much more "slab-sided appearance" which doesn't seem to be present in the photo in question.
This would seem point to the photo being Farina, practising Fagioli's car at the 1950 Italian GP meeting, as Mac1602 speculated.
A more remote possibilty is that the photo was not taken during a race meeting, but during testing, where race numbers from a previous race would often still be present on the car(s).

#7 f1steveuk

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 19:15

Originally posted by taylov
Is this Monza? The track surface looks very similar to the old Bremgarten circuit at Bern(e).

Farina was down in the programme to drive Maserati #38 in the 1948 Swiss GP.

However the Formula One Archive site records him as second on the start grid in a AR 158. I don't know my 158 from my 159, so can someone confirm if this could be a 1948 photo.


I must admit I thought Bremgarten because of the cobbles and was unaware there were any at Monza?

#8 Leif Snellman

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 21:34

Originally posted by Mac1602


also there could be some errors with other photos. Look if you could :)
http://ags.vdclan.co...rch=Autourheilu


Andretti's car looks like a late 1976 Lotus 77 to me.

#9 Mac1602

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 23:11

Originally posted by Adam F
The photo is definitely Monza - I have several photos from 1949 of this section of track (copyright - so I can't post them) with the same surface and straw bales similarly placed.
From his driving attitude it is clearly Farina, so it must be the 1950 or 1951 Italian Grand Prix meeting.
(...) This would seem point to the photo being Farina, practising Fagioli's car at the 1950 Italian GP meeting, as Mac1602 speculated.
A more remote possibilty is that the photo was not taken during a race meeting, but during testing, where race numbers from a previous race would often still be present on the car(s).

So it's 90% Monza 1950?;)
and 10% Monza 1951 de Graffenried's car (No. 36)?

*I've got de Graffenried signed photos, but in Maserati (sorry for OT)

Originally posted by Leif Snellman
Andretti's car looks like a late 1976 Lotus 77 to me.

Thanks, checked and edited :)

#10 Otto Grabe

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 15:24

Originally posted by Mac1602

So it's 90% Monza 1950?;)
and 10% Monza 1951 de Graffenried's car (No. 36)?


I have doubts about 1950/51. Though the numbers fit, the style not. I know neither a photo of Fagioli's nor of de Graffenried's car but the numbers of the other Alfas are very bold as well as square and their radiator grills are without a cover.
Maybe one can date the pic back in the fourties?

Otto

#11 Adam F

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 16:18

Otto,

I follow the point you make - I too had noticed the difference in style of numbers.
However, Farina only drove the post-war 158 Alfa Romeos during the 1946 season, long before Monza was re-opened.
The photo clearly shows Farina driving, with his distinctive style.
So it should be 1950, or later?