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Made-in-period toy race cars


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#1 T54

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 21:53

Hi,
I am not sure of how much interest there will be, but I would like to open a new thread on metal TOY racing cars and bikes (and other motorsports like boats) manufactured at the same period of time when the full-size cars or bikes were actually made. I mean TOYS, VS. models, a whole different animal...
Dinkies, Crescent, Scalex... and all these fabulous (and large!) Japanese and German tinplate windups!

I would like to begin by presenting this 15" pressed-metal and painted Kurtis-Novi manufactured for the Cragstan (Craig Stanton) Company in New York in 1958. It has an electric motor and a clear-plastic top with a flint to produce a "lighted" engine. It was of course made in Japan, where most of the best post-war toys were produced.
What do you think, good subject?

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One may wonder why the driver has his goggles off...
Another cheaper version by another manufacturer has inflatable tires! It is seen behind the nicer version and is only 13" long, with very colorful lithography. Driver has the goggles off too...???
I am sure that some of you remember these toys from the past...

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Regards,

T54 :)

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#2 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 22:51

Good and fun idea!

#3 Rob G

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 00:14

Originally posted by T54
One may wonder why the driver has his goggles off...

I'd be more concerned about why his hands are off the wheel!

#4 dretceterini

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 01:05

Super, super, super rare Ventura Ferrari on e-pay right now!

http://i21.ebayimg.c.../e7/999b_12.JPG

#5 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 07:53

Does that include the Corgi GP cars of the seventies?

#6 T54

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 03:01

Does that include the Corgi GP cars of the seventies?


I don't see why not? :)

That Ventura Ferrari is already going for over 3000 bucks, and I have the feeling that it will go a lot higher...

#7 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 03:48

I bought every one I could of these Corgis, eventually having teams of them, all painted up with the correct drivers helmets and corrected colour schemes where possible. I went on to modify the JPS into Reinne Wissells GLTL car by cutting the wing off and moving it forward, as well as filing the front wings and giving them some dihedral. GLTL stickers were used from a (horrible) Dinky Lotus 49. Repeated the act for a Rob Walker 72 and 49, using a similar process to that I had used on the Surtees - peeling the labels of mum's Brook Bond Oxo products and applying them to the cars.
The McLaren M19 got the '71 treatment too.
i must have had time on my hands then!!

#8 T54

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 03:12

Another tough one that every British child dreamed of...

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Issued in 1956. :)

#9 dretceterini

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 03:21

Originally posted by T54

I don't see why not? :)

That Ventura Ferrari is already going for over 3000 bucks, and I have the feeling that it will go a lot higher...


Marcel Massini told me he paid $12,000 for a mint one some 25 years ago!

#10 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 09:42

I've got the Cooper Bristol and the Alfa out of that selection box, and (i think) a Talbot Lago. What are the other ones?

#11 Alan Cox

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 09:53

The other ones are (from L-R) Ferrari, HWM and Maserati. Perhaps odd that the Talbot-Lago wasn't included.

#12 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 10:17

:smoking: Very nice to see , mine were a tick never, and I have no pics of them , wont even tell you about them ,let alone were they went when I got my first job :(

#13 Paolo

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:12

Originally posted by T54
Another tough one that every British child dreamed of...

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Issued in 1956. :)


Some 10 years ago Dinky reissued the Alfas. I bought 5 of them...

#14 dretceterini

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 17:09

I have also seen slush-mold cruder copies of the Ferrari and Alfa. Not sure about the others.

#15 Alan Cox

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 18:03

I'm sure that any collectors will know about it, but if you require a repro box for your old Dinky racers, they are available here:

http://toymart.co.uk...default&group=7

I have a couple and, in the absence of the genuine article, they are pretty acceptable.

#16 Barry Boor

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 20:51

Not being in a position to afford really good condition Dinkies, I just collected really old tatty ones for peanuts and understanding that re-painted ones were of no value, I decided to re-paint mine in colour schemes that were race-specific, but a little different:

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The tyres are new - genuine size but black not grey. Where did grey tyres come from, I wonder?

I have never understood why they left the Talbot out of that set.

#17 Twin Window

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 20:58

Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich

...out of that selection box...

They're not chocolates, matey!

:lol:

#18 T54

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 18:32

Barry,
the Talbot came later (last issued of the series) possibly explaining why it did not make it in the set... :)

#19 Rob Miller

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 05:58

The Ventura Ferrari went for $10,266 in the last two seconds.

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#20 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:58

Wher can you get tyres for these toys from? I am also after a set for a Cooper Maserati by Corgi.
The older ones went soft, the Cooper Maserati ones went brittle.

#21 Barry Boor

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:24

When I get home tonight, Huw, I will P.M. you an address where you can get ANY tyres you need.

If no-one else gets there first, that is.

#22 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:36

Great thanks BB.

#23 f1steveuk

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 12:04

I have three of Bluebird CN7, all Corgi, one with alloy wheels and rubber tyres, one with all plastic (cheap version!) and another with plastic wheels and different flags on the front.

There are two fantastic books (both at home in France at the moment) on both Corgi and Meccano/Dinky with all the colour variants, versions etc etc of all the models they produced. I'll post the ISBN numbers if anyone is interested.

My favourite was the Cooper Maserati where you lent the drivers head over and the fron wheels steered, complete with bi plane aerofoils.

#24 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 10:42

Selection Box does have a certain magic to it though doesn't it? One would gracefully accept a selection Box of Cadbury's when what on really wanted was a 22/- 11d Bedford Vega Major with twin turning front wheels.

By the way, When other TNFers tell me to use the BB, do they mean just ask Barry Boor? it seems to work, thank you.

#25 Mal9444

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 10:51

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Not being in a position to afford really good condition Dinkies, I just collected really old tatty ones for peanuts and understanding that re-painted ones were of no value, I decided to re-paint mine in colour schemes that were race-specific, but a little different:

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The tyres are new - genuine size but black not grey. Where did grey tyres come from, I wonder?

I have never understood why they left the Talbot out of that set.


and the races and drivers in the picture are...? (The Fangio car I recognise from an earlier thread)
:wave:

#26 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 11:48

I remember some but as I am not at home, I can't check them up.

I'll answer later.

#27 Mal9444

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 13:14

:up:

#28 dretceterini

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 23:08

Originally posted by Rob Miller
The Ventura Ferrari went for $10,266 in the last two seconds.



and it's not even in mint condition!!

#29 vintageautomobilia

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 23:29

We've talked about this before, but two of the top metal race car toys would have to be the CIJ Alfa Romeo P2 of the late 1920s and the Alfa 158 "promo" toy of the early 1950s. These are both big impressive toys, but the CIJ Alfa is in a class of its own!

#30 T54

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:24

Hidden in the bottom of a showcase is the CIJ Alfa P2, a marvellous toy then and now... I bought my very first one at age 10 in a flea market in Nice, France, for the paltry sum of 19 francs (about 3 bucks... ) Same color as this one. I must have had a dozen in between and still love that toy.

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:)

T54

#31 dretceterini

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 03:32

Originally posted by T54
Hidden in the bottom of a showcase is the CIJ Alfa P2, a marvellous toy then and now... I bought my very first one at age 10 in a flea market in Nice, France, for the paltry sum of 19 francs (about 3 bucks... ) Same color as this one. I must have had a dozen in between and still love that toy.

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:)

T54



How did a 10 year old actually have 19 FrF in his pocket 50 years ago? Must have been a month's allowance!

#32 T54

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 04:37

Actually, 3 months, but my dad like it too... :)

#33 vintageautomobilia

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 22:04

Have you seen the Cisitalia Porsche Type 360 grand prix car model/toy currently bid to over $10,000 now on eBay?

#34 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 23:01

You certainly don't have to pay all that!

http://www.tronmodel...?id=622&idgrp=1

This is a beautiful 43rd scale kit from Tron models in Loano, Italy.

#35 dretceterini

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:01

Originally posted by vintageautomobilia
Have you seen the Cisitalia Porsche Type 360 grand prix car model/toy currently bid to over $10,000 now on eBay?



That's the toy that was in Don Veta's collection. If I remember correctly, it is a one off that was made by an Italian motor scooter company (don't remember which one) for Cisitalia to try and raise money. I didn't know Don had passed away, nor do I know who is the seller or how he got Don's collection. I know where Don got it and how much he paid; I was there!!! I think it was in 1984....

#36 vintageautomobilia

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 22:19

Then, of course, there are the big Kingsbury pressed steel wind-up LSR toys made in the late 1920's and 1930's: The Golden Arrow (complete with Dunlop Racing tires), The Sunbeam, and the Bluebird. All three were wind-up toys but they were also good enough to be almost considered scale models. All three are very collectible today, as are most of the large Kingsbury toys.

#37 vintageautomobilia

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 00:18

Also, a French toy/model company, M.R.A. (Paris) made a very nice large scale Cisitalia D46 single seater in the late 1940's. It was about 12 inches long, cast aluminum and could be had as a "pusher" or "gas" powered. M.R.A. also made a similar Cisitalia 202 coupe at the same time. Both toys are quite scarce today.

#38 dretceterini

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 03:29

I've seen the D-46...if fact, didn't you have one? I've never seen the 202 coupe...

As to Don Veta, I found out that he passed away in December. Dirk Stoehr, an Alfa guy in LA bought some stuff before Don passed away. Daniel Cytrynowicz, another LA guy who has, of all things, an Alfa 2600 sedan, got the Cisitalia, and is the one selling it. Don's daughter is going to auction off the rest of Don's toy collection in England. I don't know if Don still had his Alfa Montreal, and what happened to it.

I could make a big stink, as Don and I had a notorized agreement that whoever died first would get the other's collection free. Unlike a certain Belgian that raised a ruckus over a bunch of people here simply stating opinions.....

#39 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:28

My elder brother had what seemed to me to be a very good and fairly heavy scale model of a Vanwall - I am guessing that it would be 1/20 or similar scale. I am sure my mother said it came from Marks and Spencers which seems odd in itself. It may well still be at their house, minus driver and fairly well played with but still with all its tyres etc, from memory. Ring any bells with any one?

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#40 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:39

Huw

Was it like this one? the guy I bought this from at a toy fair said that it was sold by M&S

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It measures approx 9" long

Rick

#41 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:44

one of my favourites, tin plate and battery powered with gears

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the incomplete red one is to a slightly smaller scale and more easily found, both built in Germany

:cool:
Rick

#42 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:53

although my no.1 fave is this hand built car which isn't based on any one car in particular, designed for model racing and would have been powered by a small model engine sticking up through the bonnet. Story was that it was built by an actual racing driver, but specifics/proof are long since lost in time

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Plans for this model feature in an old book on model car racing, but I can't lay my hands on it right now

Rick

#43 Mal9444

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:56

The tyres and in particular the wheels on the Vanwall suggest Crescent as the manufacturer. Could it have been a special edition for M&S? The number suggests Moss, and the stamping underneath suggests a celebration of the 1957 British GP win (albeit that he started that race in car no 18 and finished in car no 21).

#44 Mal9444

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 13:08

The silver one with Number 3 is clearly a W196. Is it tinplate? If so it is almost certainly made by JNF of West Germany, 1957-58 serial number JNF 82. (Sorry, no idea without further research what JNF stands for).

If so, my Collector's Guide to Toy Cars by Gardiner and o'Niel says this:

'This toy appeared c1957-58 in red or silver finish and in three different versions: friction driven, battery-powered in multi-action form; and battery-powered with remote control steering. it provides an interesting example of a manufacturer obtaining "added mileage" from the same basic pressing by issuing various mofications...'

#45 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 13:14

Yup tinplate, JNF is the make (that I couldnt remember when I posted the pics, thanks for the reminder!)

It'll be the "battery-powered in multi-action" version I think, with both forward and reverse gears selectable by the lever in the cockpit

Rick

#46 Mal9444

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 13:16

:up:

marvelous.

Just been hunting through a couple of reference books, but can find no more on the Vanwall.

#47 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 13:49

Similar scale to the Dinky diecasts, but by Solido with 'working' suspension

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R

#48 Mal9444

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 14:44

Funny how preferences (prejudices?) formed in childhood carry over into later life. Despite their extra sophistication, I was never charmed by the Solido models as I was by Dinky and later Crescent. Are the Solidos as collectable now as the others?

#49 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 15:11

Not sure to be honest, I collect whatever catches my eye and don't really restrict myself to any one toy manufacturer. I like Dinkies, but Solidos seem rarer (same with Crescent)

Most of my old toys are fairly generic btw, ie not of a specific vehicle

R

#50 oldclassiccar

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 15:19

Few others:

German wind-up AU:

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and a Mercedes by CKO of Western Germany:

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similar to Schuco but by Gescho, another M-B:

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Old plastic toys are of interest too

R