Jump to content


Wilhelm Bartels-1972 Porsche 908/3 question

  • Please log in to reply
4 replies to this topic

#1 Team Gunston

Team Gunston
  • Member

  • 175 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:51

In 1972, German driver Wilhelm Bartels raced a superb Porsche 908/3 (at least once at the Mont-Ventoux hillclimb). I wonder which was the chassis he used and who was the owner of the car, knowing that it was still painted in the basic JW-Gulf livery, but without any sponsorship (my source is the colour photo published in the Mont-Ventoux book of Maurice Louche).

Was it chassis number 012, the 2nd Joest Racing 908/3, although I don't know when Joest purchased this 2nd chassis ? Apparently no sticker saying Joest Racing or Reinhold Joest Racing (as it appeared first) on the body. Was Bartels himself the owner of the car he drove in 1972 ? Did he enter it in other events ?

Thank you for your help


#2 starlet

  • Member

  • 327 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 16 February 2007 - 13:41

Hello Philippe,

This entry is a mystery.
It could be c/n 008 rented by Joest to Bartels, given that only the Joest's Porsche and the one of the Escuderia Montjuich have been entered during the 1972 season.
But then 008 would have still changed colors after the Brands Hatch 1000 Km...

#3 Team Gunston

Team Gunston
  • Member

  • 175 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 16 February 2007 - 19:20

Thanks anyway Starlet. Indeed I cannot believe it was chassis 008. I know that it is easy to swap the front and rear ends on a 908/3 (013 swaped frequently from the Toblerone red and cream livery to the Tergal yellow and green one in 1973, and sometimes the two liveries were mixed), but even in this case, the lack of Joest Racing logos is surprising.

Does anyone know when Joest purchased 012 ?

I will continue my researches in order to see if the 1972 racing calendar of Joest with chassis 008 could have allowed Bartels to enter the car at the Mont-Ventoux...


  • Member

  • 238 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 17 February 2007 - 12:54

Joest bought s/n 008 on 8 April 1972, the same year, he also purchased s/n 012 but it is said that 012 has never raced in 1972.

#5 Team Gunston

Team Gunston
  • Member

  • 175 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 17 February 2007 - 22:29

Thanks Jean-Bernard. I'm still searching and I'm still discovering interesting points :

1. Apparently, the racing calendar of 008 allowed it to run at the Mont-Ventoux.

2. The paint scheme of Bartels's car is strange : yes, it is finished in the distinctive light blue and orange Gulf colours, but with a Martini style ! (Except the colours, the design on the nose is close to the paint scheme of the 1971 Nürburgring winner.)

3. In the form in which it was entered at Monza, Brands Hatch and Spa in 1972, Joest's 008 also was painted light blue and orange, but the "nose art" was specific again and not seen in this form on the JW cars in 1970/1971.

4. The rollbar is finished in the same light blue as the body, on both Joest and Bartels cars.

5. The Bartels' car had its rear wheels arches "enclosed", mandatory for the 1972 WSC events, but not elsewhere.

Thus I'm now concluding that it's not impossible that Bartels' 908/3 was 008, used on a rent-a-car basis (I would be surprised if Joest let Bartels drive a so competitive racer in a hillclimb for free). One can imagine that Joest had a lot of spare noses with different designs. And the Reinhold Joest Racing decals were probably easy to remove...