39 replies to this topic

[Bjorn Kjer]

Hello readers , having tried for a long time now ,on and off the TNF , I have only found these few infos on Peter Lumsden :

Raced 62-63-64-65
Primarly with Peter.J.Sargent , but also solo and in 65 with Peter Sutcliffe.
Raced E, Lister (E) Jag , lowdrag E.

co/owner with Peter J. Sargent(of whom I also found "nothing")of E -type

At least in 2005 he was still around!

Any help on any info , pics , sources or CONTACT ??????????????

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Hello readers , having tried for a long time now ,on and off the TNF , I have only found these few infos on Peter Lumsden :

Raced 62-63-64-65
Primarly with Peter.J.Sargent , but also solo and in 65 with Peter Sutcliffe.
Raced E, Lister (E) Jag , lowdrag E.

co/owner with Peter J. Sargent(of whom I also found "nothing")of E -type

At least in 2005 he was still around!

Any help on any info , pics , sources or CONTACT ??????????????

There's a couple of names from the past Bjorn, I used to watch Peters, Sargent and Lumsden race during that period at Brands Hatch, almost weekly! They had a gorgeous E-Type, in very dark blue IIRC,the passage of time, I cannot remember though if it was a coupe or hardtop

Halcyon days, they were usually at the sharp end of the field!Others that raced in similar cars at around that time were, John Quick(complete with decal "Moon Equipped" eyes),Warren Pearce and Keith Holland's Molash Racing Partnership car. Superb, iconic cars of the swinging '60's

Sorry I cannot give you the info you want though!

Sterling

[Bjorn Kjer]

Thanks Sterling , I considered a "British Peters " thread for Lumsden , Sargent, Sutcliffe , Clarke etc. , but decided otherwise. Beside my "wants" I also hoped for replyes like yours ,having never seen him race , it adds to the view of that time. Did put it on my "Who was this " thread ,but not more than the above info , so hoping and who knows ?

And to the E jags , seldom a Ferrari beater , but in the hands of the Peters and Protheroe and a few other did quite well , I think!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
Thanks Sterling , I considered a "British Peters " thread for Lumsden , Sargent, Sutcliffe , Clarke etc. , but decided otherwise. Beside my "wants" I also hoped for replyes like yours ,having never seen him race , it adds to the view of that time. Did put it on my "Who was this " thread ,but not more than the above info , so hoping and who knows ?

And to the E jags , seldom a Ferrari beater , but in the hands of the Peters and Protheroe and a few other did quite well , I think!

I probably saw Clarke also, but cannot recall what he drove? Peter Sutcliffe went on to a Ford GT40, it is amazing what the passing of 40 plus years does to the memory.......I used to have a recall like an Apple Mac with instant recall............now I forget what I went upstairs for...and remember what it was once downstairs again

Did Clarke have a Ferrari 250/275???

Sterling

[Huw Jadvantich]

Not a Peter but there was a Piers who was very Quick in E types

[ianselva]

That would be Warren Pierce. I used to watch him at Brands often . He or his son used to produce the JAP wheels.

[Barry Boor]

Regarding the E-type, not dark blue, I think, rather, dark green:

[Bjorn Kjer]

Beautiful!
The blue Jag was Mo Charles!

[Macca]

I saw the 'low roof' Lumsden/Sargent E-Type at an HSCC meeting at Mallory a few years ago - it was owned by Jag enthusiast Allen Lloyd of chemists fame & Lister notoriety.

All my photos are boxed up ready for a house move, alas..........

Paul M

[Frank de Jong]

So far, I found 2 BTCC entries for Peter Lumsden:
1962 Brands Hatch, Jag Mk II, DNF
1963 Brands Hatch, Mercedes 220 SE (!) 6th overall, 2nd in class, but subsequenty disqualified for non-homologated gear ratios.

[David McKinney]

Lumsden was a Lotus man before switching over to Jaguar.
He raced an 1172cc Ford-engined MkIX in 1956, moving on to an 1100cc Climax-powered model (probably an XI) and then achieving considerable success with his Elite 1SMB, later WUU2 in 1959/60/61.
His first E-type was the ex-Sargent car 898BYR in 1962, followed by the lightweight 49FXN in 1963/64/65
I don't recall him ever racing the low-drag coupé

[Sharman]

David
I can't quote chapter and verse but I am sure he did drive a low drag versiob which is still on the scene and usually described as the ex Lumsden/Sargent car
John

[Bjorn Kjer]

He drove an E , 898BYR at Goodwood and Le Mans in 1962 at least
In 1963 Le Mans it was the Lister Jaguar Coupe
1964 was a lowdrag 48 FXH at Le Mans
All Le Mans above with P.J.Sargent (infos from pictures on the net).

But where is the man ?

[David McKinney]

Apologies - FXN49's being rebodied as a Costin low-drag coupé had slipped my mind

[Paul Parker]

I've come to this thread rather late in the day concerning Sargent/Lumsden and the two E types, 898 BYR and the 'lightweight' 49 FXN that metamorphosed into a low drag coupe in 1964. This car S850663 was de facto written off at the 1963 Nurburgring 1000 Kms when Lumsden was caught out by a suddenly wet road and had a monumental accident. Jaguar rebuilt it with a new monocoque and it raced at the 1963 Goodwood TT using the original roadster style body.

The 'low drag' rebody was designed by Dr. Samir Klat with reference to Frank Costin's work whilst the engine development was carried out at Imperial College, London led by Klat and Canadian boffin Harry Watson. Brian Playford recalled that the very heavy ZF 5 speed gearbox was repositioned forward to prevent the alloy block flexing and cracking whilst the steering rack was remounted and the inside pick-up for the upper front wishbone arms were lowered to achieve the car's distinct in period negative front camber that increased grip and eliminated the E type's excessive bump steer.

They were very serious about this but got little help and no encouragement from Jaguar as the Peters recalled in 2000, although Jaguar aerodynamicist Malcom Sayer was helpful. Brian Playford told me that when the car appeared at the 1964 Le Mans test trials German Jaguar distributor Peter Lindner who appeared with the riveted factory 'low drag' E type shouted from his pit counter "why doesn't my car look like 49 FXN?" Klat also photographed pitstops for analysis purposes to see where time could be saved, decades before F1 became similarly focused.

Peter Sargent was running a hotel/restaurant in Steyning, Sussex a few years ago and might still be there. He gave up racing in late 1964 after an accident on a tractor left him with a serious neck injury that he could not risk damaging again. Peter Lumsden was living in London when I interviewed the Peters in 2000 for my Jaguar at Le Mans book but his current whereabouts are unknown to me. All of Lumsden's cars from his Lotus's onwards were prepared and looked after by Brian and John Playford.

For the record the first car 898 BYR (850009) started life as a roadster and it was comprehensively re-engineered and rebodied but retained the roadster screen, hence its lowline appearance compared to the regular FHC E type. Both E types were dark green in period although the 'low drag' car was variously white, red and later in America a rather billious green/blue shade during its varied life.

I drove 49 FXN last year at Goodwood and found it quite claustrophobic inside, preferring the 'low drag' CUT 7 for driver feel, although of course the lighter, lower FXN was quicker.

[Patrick Sumner]

re Peter Sargent. Correct, he owns The Old Tollgate, Bramber, Steyning, W Sussex. I lunched there last week.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Hi Peter , would you please contact me under : kjerbjoern@hotmail.com ?

(full confidence) Kind regards , Bjørn (Bjorn) Kjer

[Bjorn Kjer]

Found The Old Tollgate and mailed PJS , but unfortunately no reply. Wich leaves me still to ask if any of you know the whereabouts of Peter Lumsden (or off topic Peter Sutcliffe )?????????????

[Bjorn Kjer]

Also got a telphone no. on P.Lumsden (?) but no answer. So I am not getting much besides this thread. Any news ?

[Haine Kane]

Hello dear friends,

If someone have birth date and place about Peter ?

Thanks a lot.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Well ,its all adding up , but still no contact to either Lumsden or Sargent ,at least they dont answer ! Wich means no confirmation of the green bus-van at LeMans in 1962 !?Gre

[raceannouncer2003]

Found this (note owner of first two cars)...maybe?

http://steamcar.net/register-4.html

and this...maybe they can help?

http://steamcar.net/contacts.html

Vince H.

[Bjorn Kjer]

The little blue sad face turned yellow wawing.....Hi Vince, good tip ,worth trying , you shall hear!

Regards Bjørn (Bjorn)

[Bjorn Kjer]

Hi Vince , so far a message from me has been passed on to Peter , now I can only wait for a reply!

Are you in Canada , and how come you search British ?

[Charles Helps]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Lumsden was a Lotus man before switching over to Jaguar.
He raced an 1172cc Ford-engined MkIX in 1956, moving on to an 1100cc Climax-powered model (probably an XI) ...

Wasn't Peter Lumsden's Lotus Mk IX always Climax powered? He was running at Goodwood in both 1955 and 1956 with the Climax. The car, registered RYF 446, went to jazz trombonist Chris Barber afterwards and is still raced today. Ian Smith says that Peter Lumsden won the BARC Brooklands Trophy in 1956.

[David McKinney]

I can't answer that Charles. I no longer recall my source for saying Ford power. I presumed it was in a contemporary Autosport report but I've just been through all the 1955 copies and can't find any mention of his name, regardless of engine

[Bjorn Kjer]

Charles , have a look at :

wsrp.ic.cz

and search under Brit Nat. and Brit.Int. At least he was a winner with 1100 Climax engine.

[raceannouncer2003]

Bjorn

Yes, I am in Victoria, B.C., Canada. I am on the Canadian Motor Sports History Group and this one. I enjoy trying to help solve puzzles and answer questions about racing history, whether it is Canadian or international, as I enjoy it when someone helps me!

Vince H.

[Bjorn Kjer]

I am through to Peter Lumsden!(if its the right PL) A possible result will follow.

Vince,thanks for the info , I myself feel much the same,and as you know most people here do the same ,helping and sharing, its great.

I might come back later on some CDN prosport qs (just before the CanAm) . And you may feel free to ask anything,I have a broead knowledge ,allthough that limits the "expert", but I will allow to call me a "specialist"! Ha-ha!

[Bjorn Kjer]

So far the green bus at LM62 is confirmed , more to follow!

[Charles Helps]

Peter Lumsden gave an excellent talk on his racing with Lotuses at Club Lotus Avon yesterday.

He finished 8th at Le Mans with his Climax Elite WUU 2 partnered by Peter Riley. They beat the Clark/Whitmore car which was faster but had problems requiring more time to be spent in the pits. As Peter said the secret was to spend as little time going slowly as possible. They also maintained good relations with their plombeur which made the pit stops just that bit shorter.

He showed us some wonderful slides of Goodwood, Brands, Silverstone, Nurburgring and Le Mans. A fascinating evening.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Peter Lumsden (with Peter Sargent) used an old Green Line Bus painted BRG (the type with separate driver cabin) This was written of in 1963 and they continued with a Leyland "normal" bus also BRG and seen often in diverse books in bthe backgrounds of paddock pictures. The partnership ended in 1964 when Sargent retired , Lumsden continuing for one more year!

[robh91]

Hi Guys.
I'm an Aussie who is a Chrysler fan of the Australian produced Chrysler Valiant and Charger.

Anyway as a piece of trivia, Peter Lumsden and Peter Sargent entered a Valiant Estate (Aussie built) in the 1968 London-Sydney Marathon. Unfortunately they were hit by a truck in Turkey which ended their race. I was surprised to find that both had extensive histories with Jags, Le Mans etc.

http://marathon68.ho...m/chrysler.html

In this thread there are a few references to their current contact details.

Can anyone pass them on to me? I would be fascinated to further investigate their involvement in the London-Sydney Marathon.

cheers

Rob
rehurley@iinet.net.au

[fuzzi]

Slightly off track, but on E-bay at the moment is a wonderful Packard Senior 8 for sale. The first owner was a Mr Selkirk, who kept the car until his death, and the second Peter Lumsden.
What good taste in cars he had.

[Bjorn Kjer]

To get back on track , if no one can show pictures , please add links to the E types and Lister ?

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 04 January 2010 - 15:29.

[sterling49]

Bjorne, hope this helps, supplied by my mate who I used to cycle to Brands with, back in the day!!! A gorgeous car




Photo courtesy of Robert B. in France.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Great picture thanks very much , this and Lindners ..................

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 04 January 2010 - 15:31.

[MaxwellBrown]

With reference to both Lumsden & Sargent , they were both Members of the Stock Exchange many years ago .
Lumsden was a Partner in a Stockbrokers, named Lumsden & Co, whilst Malcolm Sargent was also a member of the Stock Exchange being a partner in a stockjobbing company.

Whether either gentleman is still alive , I have no idea. Malcolm had a son named Michael who followed him into the Stock Exchange. Michael would be in his mid sixties at least !

[Alan Cox]

With reference to both Lumsden & Sargent , they were both Members of the Stock Exchange many years ago .
Lumsden was a Partner in a Stockbrokers, named Lumsden & Co, whilst Malcolm Sargent was also a member of the Stock Exchange being a partner in a stockjobbing company.

Surely Peter Sargent

[MaxwellBrown]

Oops !
Peter it is ...Malcolm Sargent was a musician ...
Sorry